What exactly is the mechanics of gaining/losing money for protector/protectorat

[Bactron]

I have never been subjected to being a protectorat of other faction.

But I have subjected some factions couple of times into my protectorates.

How exactly does it work with relation to faction treasury. I think that protectorates gaves all the money they have every turn to their protector. Am I right?

And if so, could it be modified so for example: protectorates would give only half the money they make for turn to their protectorates? It would actually make it reasonable to accept position of protectorate even for human player in some situation. Because you would gain strong alliance (with ai faction that probably kicked your ass badly) and also you would still have at least some money to handle your own factions needs (building cities, army upkeep, hiring new units etc.)

[I of the Storm]

I don't know about the money issue except that you usually get alot the turn after you turned someone into your protectorate. Any insight on the mechanics would be welcome.
It being part of the diplomacy section, I'm afraid that all this is hardcoded and therefore not modable.

[Tellos Athenaios]

IIRC you get a fixed percentage of the profit the faction makes without the money it gets from money scripting. So that means if you payed them a lot to become your protectorate they will return that amount in full/nearly full; but only the very large factions will continue to support your treasury instead of being some mere decoration in the diplomacy scroll.

[I of the Storm]

I'd like to add a (hypothetical) question here:
When an AI faction, say the Romani, turns another AI faction, e.g. the Arverni, into their protectorate, and this remains stable throughout the game, how is this handled by the EB victory conditions? I mean, the arverni remain in possession of cities that the Romani are technically required to take. Does the script take the protectorate status into account when checking for victory conditions or are the Romani technically unable to win the game from now on?

[Tellos Athenaios]

AFAIK: protectorate territory counts as conquered territory for the protector as well. At least that's how it goes in Vanilla.
I suppose that is built in the engine. But I could be wrong.

[Bactron]

Thanks. And please don't you know roughly what percentage it is?

I find this feature of protectorates to be very usefull. For one I dont like killing factions of. So it is neat to leave your enemies with let's say one, or two provinces and make them your protectorates.

And also one time I used it to block myself out of one of my enemy. I have played for Aedui faction, and I was in war with Arverni, Sweboz, Carthago and Rome. So I made Arveni my protectorate (they had one remaining city) and in couple of next turns I gaved them all my provinces which bordered with Sweboz. (I should add that Arverni's were also in war with Sweboz for the whole time, even during the period they fought against me). And then I just sent couple of generals with armies into Arvernis teritory to support them in wars against Sweboz.

And It worked really well now I could concentrate on the Carhagians and Romans. Because north/east part of my teritory was secured.

[I of the Storm]

AFAIK: protectorate territory counts as conquered territory for the protector as well. At least that's how it goes in Vanilla.
I suppose that is built in the engine. But I could be wrong.

In vanilla the protectorate provinces counted as yours. But what I meant is, do they also count as yours 'in the eyes' of the EBBS? AFAIK it checks if province X is owned by faction Y only, not if faction Y has protector status over faction Z who happen to own province X.

[Charge]

hmmmm.... you gain money from protectorate?.. In my exp I had only loose my $$$$$$$, like had $1,050,000 and after turning someone into protectorate next turn you wake up and see ... SURPRISE! ...$50,000 while pr. had $1,000,000

[Tellos Athenaios]

Yeah but what I meant was that the engine does the real work; and returns the script its results. Now, if the engine hears "check if province x belongs to faction z" and without scripting it is capable to understand that if faction y is a protectorate of faction z; and faction y owns region x that it should return "yes it does".... why should a conditional in the scripting yield anything different?

[I of the Storm]

That was what I was inquiring. If it works that way, my question is answered. Thanks.

[overweightninja]

I'd like to add a (hypothetical) question here:
When an AI faction, say the Romani, turns another AI faction, e.g. the Arverni, into their protectorate, and this remains stable throughout the game, how is this handled by the EB victory conditions? I mean, the arverni remain in possession of cities that the Romani are technically required to take. Does the script take the protectorate status into account when checking for victory conditions or are the Romani technically unable to win the game from now on?

EDIT Nevermind, already answered, sorry :D

[Tellos Athenaios]

hmmmm.... you gain money from protectorate?.. In my exp I had only loose my $$$$$$$, like had $1,050,000 and after turning someone into protectorate next turn you wake up and see ... SURPRISE! ...$50,000 while pr. had $1,000,000

That means you became a protectorate. You make money as the protector by 'taxing' the protectorate based on the profit it makes. Likewise you are 'taxed' by your protector when you managed to become a protectorate.

Probably some faction demanded you to become a protectorate and you mistakenly accepted. Now you litterally pay the price.

[overweightninja]

That means you became a protectorate. You make money as the protector by 'taxing' the protectorate based on the profit it makes. Likewise you are 'taxed' by your protector when you managed to become a protectorate.

Probably some faction demanded you to become a protectorate and you mistakenly accepted. Now you litterally pay the price.

Wasn't there a bug in the earlier RTW builds that caused this to happen? Perhaps that's what he's referring to...

[Charge]

This was in 1.0 while I played as Seleucids. I conquered almost all eastern provinces, and just for fun offered protectorate to Armenia for map and $10,000. They accept, but next turn happened this...
Than I reloaded campaign and make same things, stealing happened again...

[Schatten]

protectorate is nice, if i play roman i usually make arverni or aedui protectorate and build a line of their provinces betwen me and sweboz.

but everytime they stop all their activity....even if they in war with a other faction they do nothing more...their army sit around, it even looks that they dont build new units or only real few, they dont attack anything more even if we both in war with those faction they do nothing.

if the protectorate is broken they start to act normal....

[overweightninja]

This was in 1.0 while I played as Seleucids. I conquered almost all eastern provinces, and just for fun offered protectorate to Armenia for map and $10,000. They accept, but next turn happened this...
Than I reloaded campaign and make same things, stealing happened again...

Yes that's a bug in 1.0, the problem is corrected in later RTW builds.

[Centurion Crastinus]

What's the best way to make someone a protectorate? The AI is always unwilling to do so with me.

[johnhughthom]

I have never been able to get the AI to accept protectorate either. Seemingly you need to inflict a number of crushing defeats on your enemy until they are barely hanging on and then offer them a huge amount of money to get them to agree(though you get it back within a few turns). I wonder if the fact I play VH campaign makes it impossible to get a protectorate, but then most EB players play that difficulty so that may not be the reason if others in this thread can get them. I find it quite frustrating as I don't like to kill off factions but more often than not I'm forced into it.

[Bactron]

If you are not able to gain protectorates. Then listen up.
You both should try Forced diplomacy minimod. It's really good option since the normal diplomacy is quite bad. And if you make some house-rules and will not abuse it then it is really good thing.

I for example use it but only with these rules - I must have a large and powerful empire in order to make someone my protectorate. The enemy has to suffer lots of defeats from me, and that faction has to have only one or two remaining provinces, then I usually send a full stack/s to (both)their remaining province/s I march right next to their cities. And then I use a force diplomacy to make them to accept it.

[Centurion Crastinus]

Where can I find the forced diplomacy mini-mod? Also, if someone is my protectorate, can I later declare war on them if the need arises?

[johnhughthom]

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=80763

[Bactron]

Also, if someone is my protectorate, can I later declare war on them if the need arises?

Yes you can still attack them if you want.

[V.T. Marvin]

I personally do not recommend to anybody to try to obtain a protectorate in EB, especially on VH campaign difficulty. Because the protectorate gives almost all its money to protector and because the script instantly gives a huge amount of money to the protectorate the whole thing turns into a indefinite money machine. It will ruin your gameplay experience - being flooded by tens of thousands free mnai each turn is not very funny.
I would recommend to use the force diplomacy mod so that you make your defeated enemy to become your ally and grant you military access (and if you wish even a reasonable tribute) - thus you will get the benefits of a protectorate without being flooded with cash and turning the AI into total passivity.