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Thread: Facing up to my own racism

  1. #31
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    As I have said many times here, I do not believe in human nature and it would take one hell of a lot of convincing to make me change my mind.
    You seriously don't believe in human nature? fascinating.
    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    Tribalism, what is that? Can you even define it in a way to apply it to all humans throughout time? And if so, how can racism then be an extention of it?
    Easily done. Tribalism is the innate desire to belong to a group of humans. The desire to belong is universal and timeless. How can racism be an extension of it? I already described the process in my previous post. To belong to a group, the group must be defined. There are those who are in it, and those who are not. One cannot be inside if there is no outside. Do I need to go on? This seems pretty basic and obvious ...

  2. #32
    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Why is it an innate desire to be part of a social group? Anarchists for instance believe in the complete opposite. Why are we necessarily social beings simply because most people move in social spheres and networks in multiple societies? Even pro creation cannot be said to be a universal human value as there are numerous celibate people throughout the globe, not to mention those who actually never get round to it.

    Even if we were to say that humans were all social beings and that is human nature, what makes them racist? Why does it HAVE to follow that humans are social beings and part of being social is to be racist. Surely there is no logical and philosophical jump. If humans are social beings why does a group need to be defined? And if it is defined why then along racial lines? Furthermore what about societies and social groupings throughout history made up of several differing races and cultures?

    All these questions would need to be answered if it is simple case of us being social and if we are social then we are racist.
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  3. #33
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    The good old "human nature" argument... As JAG I don't believe in such a thing, but if it does, then it most certainly can be changed. Why? Well, because we have changed our nature, just these last 100 years. Before WW1, war was seen as almost a good thing. It was a right thing to do, and it wasn't all bad at all. People were happy to go to war, this was simply the way things should be done. It was indeed in our nature to go to war.

    Do we really think the same today? Excluding some oddballs, I'd say NO. Nowadays, we think of war as both unjust and bad, and that it should be avoided at almost any cost. Previously it was a casual thing, now it is not.

    Also, if something was "in human nature", then it should be logical that it applies to every human, shouldn't it? Well, if the OP is in our nature, then every european should behave the same way, shouldn't they? I mean, it's in our nature, wasn't that the point? But why then don't everyone react the same way? Maybe because it's a learned trait, not something in our nature?
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  4. #34
    American since 2012 Senior Member AntiochusIII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    It can't be universal if it is in 'all but the very few'.
    Semantics.
    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    Furthermore the examples you give, fine some people may say that, but do all? That 'gangsta wannabe' you point out, has he got this prejudice, even though he is a 'white guy' 'acting' like a 'black guy'?
    You're missing the point.

    The example is merely a popular anecdote of what is going on.

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    And if it is prejudice you talk of, why does it have to be connected to race at all? Surely if it is merely prejudice and weary beliefs people hold you are on about, why be connected to race at all. Surely the same kind of thing happens when some people might think of an old person sitting behind the wheel of a car - 'oh they are going to drive slow and be terrible' - or for that matter what some people might think of a white, skin headed youngster behind the wheel - 'oh he is going to drive crazy'. What it sounds like you are hinting at is not prejudice based on anything, merely stereotypes and prejudice in general. Nothing you state in your post explains why this has to be a merely racial thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by My posts from earlier
    One could call it prejudice, or any other name. It's the same mentality that -- I think, since I don't exactly speak for everyone -- whatever names it's called, is an inner devil in all but the very few humans.

    ...

    It was, I think, racism (white), a gap of age (old), class conflict (rich, "aristocratic"), and all sorts of other -isms mixed into one, all of which essentially refers to the same idea of "us" and "them."
    Let us explore the surface of racism shall we? What is it? A fear of different skin colors, different social backgrounds, different languages, different cultures, different... well, many differences mixed into one.

    What is xenophobia? A fear of people from foreign countries.

    Etc.

    What do they all have in common? A fear of difference. That's where I'm trying to point the topic to. No need to restrict ourselves because the same thing has many ways of expressing out.

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    And stereotyping or this kind of prejudice again merely comes from society and culture, not by some human nature present in every human. I fail to see the point you put across.
    Can you expand on this assertion?

    Curious. You seem to refuse to acknowledge what I (and apparently a lot of other people, going by this thread) see as innate racism in all of us, and consequently something worth exploring in. You claim it is entirely a societal construction; why?


    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore
    Also, if something was "in human nature", then it should be logical that it applies to every human, shouldn't it? Well, if the OP is in our nature, then every european should behave the same way, shouldn't they? I mean, it's in our nature, wasn't that the point? But why then don't everyone react the same way? Maybe because it's a learned trait, not something in our nature?
    See the statement in Papewaio's sig.
    _____________

    Interesting indeed. You two seem to consider the concept of human nature as false. That is not a position I see very often. If you don't mind, how about expanding upon it for us?

    And before jumping anywhere, duly note that recognizing our base instincts is different from justifying them. Again, see Papewaio's sig.

    On a related point, I think both your assertions that "we" fear "Muslims" is the result of mass media and society pointing us that way. I sincerely think that they don't have nearly as much impact as you both claim they have. They might indeed be responsible for pointing our fears to the "Muslims," but that is merely a direction; the fear comes from us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    I also don't see why people are jumping on PJ's comment. I thought it was perfectly fair.
    Based on your advice, I shall pay very much attention to this Arabic-looking guy I see every other day in class for fear of his potential danger based on the general perception of terrorists of today I think.

    It's not my fault of course. It never is. I'm just rightfully afraid because people who apparently look like him are apparently doing bad things around the world. And this has nothing to do with racism either.
    Last edited by AntiochusIII; 10-09-2007 at 08:25.

  5. #35
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    Ghandi? A racist for sure.
    At last something you've said that is actually true. He did absolutely zilch for the black South Africans.

    I'm old enough to remember that seeing someone with a black skin was such a rarity, it was exotic. When I was 8 or 9 years old I was on my way, with my family, to Belle Vue in Manchester. On the bus there was a black man, a negro. His complexion was that 'purple' black you sometimes see. The only black faces I'd seen up to that point was on the telly (Black and White Minstrels anyone?) and I was fascinated. I couldn't stop staring at the colour of his skin. My dad (an ex-bootneck) gave me a clip around the ear and scolded me for being rude and staring. He then apologised to the gentleman. It was probably down to the fact that he had circumnavigated the globe several times on HMS Anson that led to him being more broadminded than most.
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  6. #36
    Senior Member Senior Member econ21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJager
    It is certainly not racism to be alert and aware when you see a you see a young muslim reading a koran on public transit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    I also don't see why people are jumping on PJ's comment. I thought it was perfectly fair.
    Number of train journeys per year in Britain: 1 billion
    Number of trains bombed by Muslim suicide bombers: 0 (3 in 2006 if you include the tube).

    You don't think worrying about a 1 in a billion risk because you see a Muslim is a bit silly? I'm not sure it is racist, as the fear seems to be of the koran, but it does seem Islamophobic.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Senior Member English assassin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    You don't think worrying about a 1 in a billion risk because you see a Muslim is a bit silly? I'm not sure it is racist, as the fear seems to be of the koran, but it does seem Islamophobic.
    It shows a lack of perspective, (a topic on which, Ironically, lemur has started some good threads in the past) but islamophobia? Not sure. On the other hand actually reading the koran is probably a good sign, as Islamists have often been severely mislead as to what it says.

    We are conditioned by our upbringing and by our experiences - but to what extent do we have to take responsibilities for our own prejudices? And how best to defeat them? How might we address this without losing the cultural values that define us as well - diversity being a good thing in my book. Is interaction and dialogue the sole solution, or does one have to dig deeper into one's soul?
    Well, obviously we have to take responsibility.

    I'm not sure interaction is the solution. I don't think racism is having a problem with a specific individual. I have worked with people of all sorts of backgrounds (ethnic, social, diufferent sexualities, etc), and in my experience few people have difficulties with "the other" that they know. Because the black guy you work with isn't a black guy, he's the Man U fan who has never been to Old Trafford in his life.

    The difficulty is with "the other" en masse, for whom interaction is by defintion not an option. And there I think the best you can do is reflect. For example, I believe it is accurate to regard violence (both of a robber, and a terrorist) as essentially a phenomenon that correlates with stupidity, and with being young and male, and not with race or religion. Islamism as a movement can be understood in large part as a demographic not a religious problem: what happens when a country has a large population of young uneducated men? (Although it does have to be said that that volatile situation is thn given direction by a few, older men, who misrepresent Islam for their political ends).

    Here's another thought: Marxists use to define racism in political/economic terms. Only the dominant group could be racist because only the dominat group could exclude. Total cobblers of course, but on that basis can any one of us be called racist anyway. BG wasn't being dominant when he felt uncomfortable on the train.
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  8. #38
    Second-hand chariot salesman Senior Member macsen rufus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Sorry to say Jag, much as I usually enjoy your posts, this time you appear to exhibit the smug self-congratulation of the true ideologue.

    How can you say there is no such thing as human nature? Everything has a nature - and we are social primates, evolved from a long line of social primates. That doesn't disappear at the flick of a socialist pamphlet! You are in fact exhibiting the very behaviour you deny exists, by seeing your own tribe or in-group as superior to outsiders. Still it evades the need for you to engage in any self examination, I guess.

    Why is it an innate desire to be part of a social group? Anarchists for instance believe in the complete opposite.
    Surely you mean nihilists? I know quite a few syndicalists who would string you up for that, if they were the stringing up type. Your argument is a reductio ad absurdum, I'm afraid. Social behaviour is an inherent part of human beings, as is eye colour. To observe that we don't all have blue eyes doesn't rule out that we do have genes that determine our eye colour. Biology isn't physics - attributes are variable and interactive, although one element may be concealed by another, it is not absent. Even accreting ideologies is a social "flagging" behaviour, wanting to be "an anarchist" is social behaviour in itself. Reducing the tribe to a single person doesn't stop it being tribal behaviour.

    And Hore Tore, I don't accept your argument that current attitudes to war denote any change in human nature - social attitudes can change, yet we are still the same social primates, and wars still break out, and I think you'd be the first to recognise there are still hyper-patriotic dingbats that are just as gung-ho as any WW1 combatants. You ALWAYS assume that any mention of human nature is an acceptance that was IS is the same as what SHOULD BE, and that whoever raises it is claiming it's neither possible nor desirable to change. You've done it over and over, when generally the point being made is that humanity has flaws, and has to accept what they are before being able to address them. Yes, we have progressed, but that is not thanks to folks denying what we are, it is down to people who accept there is such a thing as human psychology and have taken the effort to undergo self-examination and striving to overcome our failings. But sitting in an ivory tower chanting "I am not an ape" will solve nothing.

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  9. #39
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Concerning groups, I am personally very hesitant to fully integrate into groups, that is mostly due to my experience that belonging to a group means you exclude others as you said.
    I usually only integrate into froups that are rather open to the outside, I know some nice people but due to the fact that they often talked bad about strangers or people from other social groups, I never felt really comfortable around them, that's partly due to a belief that such people would also easily talk about me behind my back but partly also because I may and do like people of other groups as well and refuse to eneter a group that excludes them.

    Now I'm talking about myself again but I'm the best example I have.


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    Member Member atheotes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Thanks to banquo for an excellent topic...

    i too think that racism is universal... i am from India and i have seen a lot and felt too... the black/white stereotype has probably been the most publicised/discussed one... there are other forms of racism found in every society. Given to our basic instincts racism seems to come naturally till reason over rides it.
    Last edited by atheotes; 10-09-2007 at 16:36.

  11. #41
    Involuntary Gaesatae Member The Celtic Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    BG: I wonder. As I take it, the muslim had a middle-eastern look. Am I correct? If so, do you think you would've thought differently had it been a white guy reading that koran?

    In any case, people are not born racists. Not at all. But people are born with a fear of what's unknown, so our brain will as quick as possible try to tell us what it is that we see. When we see a stranger, we will look at him, and depending on what we see (what colour his skin has, what kind of clothes he wears etc.) we will fit him or her into the most fitting "box" (that is for example, a "black people box", a "muslim box" etc.). But just knowing what some kind of people/thing/animal is called is worth just as much as knowing that that is a tiger, but not knowing that the tiger is dangerous. So these boxes are given certain values, and those values will be given to everyone who fits into these boxes. This is for example how you immediately upon entering know that a classroom is a classroom, not a church without having to study it any closer. But of course, sometimes it goes wrong, and we think that a group of people, or a box, has values that they really don't have, which is all the more evident when it comes to people. (I mean, how often do you go into what you think is a church, but then find out is a classroom? )

    This is why interaction is so important in "fixing" this, and segregation can be so detrimenting. Only if we're given the "correct" values, we can replace the false ones and get a more correct view of them as a whole. Or even better, we won't get the false ones at all (which is more a "beutiful goal" rather than a reachable one). It's especially important at young ages, as that's when we first form these ideas. To edit them later on you may need some special admin-tools... or at least try much harder.

    As an sidenote, this topic and talk about people being inherently racist reminded me of Jackie Arklöv. Why so, you ask? Because he's a half-black neo-nazi...

  12. #42
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    Why is it an innate desire to be part of a social group? Anarchists for instance believe in the complete opposite. Why are we necessarily social beings simply because most people move in social spheres and networks in multiple societies?
    JAG, HoreTore, if we take this too much further we should probably spin it off into its own thread. Why do we have an innate desire to be included in some sort of social group? Because we evolved as social animals, instead of lone hunters. You don't see monkeys living on their own unless they're lost or mentally damaged.

    If there is no social instinct, why is solitary confinement considered a punishment in every human society? Why does every form of human society evolve around social structures?

    What is your hypothesis in regards to the complete and total lack of human nature, anyway? Are we unprogrammed robots when we are born? Sort of like a new PC without an operating system? Clearly, you have never raised children.

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    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    About human nature, IMO the basic instict is rather to group simular things together, and that includes personalities. This is advantageous as long as you're easily able to change this when you recive new information, but it seems that this often gets somewhat locked (often by grouping and the tendency to disrespect and/or counterdisrepct the "others").

    Not all humans needs to have this though, but it's more because you can function even if a lot of centers in the brain are gone or functioning poorly/oddly.
    We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

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    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    It all depends on how we use our monkeysphere.

  15. #45
    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    I'm glad I can say that I don't have any subconcious prejudices or racist tendencies at all. Kudos to BG for being self-conscious, that's the first step. As for the rest of you bigots, I can only say I'm dissapointed.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Seriously, I know I have prejudices and personally think that anyone who says he doesn't is either superhumanly enlightened, clueless or a bloody liar. I've always imagined that some of my prejudices might be true, a lot of them are probably not and that it's at any rate the best thing not to let the way you think of certain groups affect the way you deal with individuals.

  16. #46
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Quote Originally Posted by English assassin
    Here's another thought: Marxists use to define racism in political/economic terms. Only the dominant group could be racist because only the dominat group could exclude. Total cobblers of course, but on that basis can any one of us be called racist anyway. BG wasn't being dominant when he felt uncomfortable on the train.
    There are two kinds of racism: structural and casual. The structural rascism is the one that really hurts, the casual racism doesn't matter nearly as much. It is the structural racism that can only be performed by the dominant group, the casual racism is for everyone.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    Hǫrðar Member Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Quote Originally Posted by The Vicious Monkey
    In any case, people are not born racists. Not at all. But people are born with a fear of what's unknown, so our brain will as quick as possible try to tell us what it is that we see. When we see a stranger, we will look at him, and depending on what we see (what colour his skin has, what kind of clothes he wears etc.) we will fit him or her into the most fitting "box" (that is for example, a "black people box", a "muslim box" etc.). But just knowing what some kind of people/thing/animal is called is worth just as much as knowing that that is a tiger, but not knowing that the tiger is dangerous. So these boxes are given certain values, and those values will be given to everyone who fits into these boxes. This is for example how you immediately upon entering know that a classroom is a classroom, not a church without having to study it any closer. But of course, sometimes it goes wrong, and we think that a group of people, or a box, has values that they really don't have, which is all the more evident when it comes to people. (I mean, how often do you go into what you think is a church, but then find out is a classroom?

    If you for the first time saw a muslim, and you do not know what a muslim is, would you be scared of him? No, because fear comes from "knowledge" rather than not knowing. Just look at how animals at never-before-visited-places react to humans: they show no fear.
    You'd rather be interested in finding out what a muslim is before you cast what is, in your eyes, the proper judge.

    If you do not understand someone though, you might act with precaution, and the precaution might lead to racism.


    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore
    There are two kinds of racism: structural and casual. The structural rascism is the one that really hurts, the casual racism doesn't matter nearly as much. It is the structural racism that can only be performed by the dominant group, the casual racism is for everyone.

    What is what? Is racism tought to you by your parents structural, or are you then talking about nation wide racism or community racism?
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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    You don't see monkeys living on their own unless they're lost or mentally damaged.
    Thank you.
    (read my last post for reference )


    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    It all depends on how we use our monkeysphere.
    And thanks again, been looking for that link.


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    Member Member atheotes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Quote Originally Posted by Viking
    If you for the first time saw a muslim, and you do not know what a muslim is, would you be scared of him? No, because fear comes from "knowledge" rather than not knowing.
    I would say incomplete or incorrect information/knowledge is what causes the fear. Grouping/generalising/stereotyping is the biggest reason.

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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    How is it human nature to be afraid of / dislike differences? I haven't read that manual on the human brain, obviously. The point I would make is, not only can you not prove that but it simply is not the case. Look around you, walk down the street, you will see an instance of someone not giving two hoots about racial difference. Why can't it be human nature to embrace difference?
    Consider:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Our Aversion to the Unfamiliar
    Judy Illes, Vivian Chin
    Brain and Culture: Neurobiology, Ideology, and Social Change. Bruce E. Wexler. xii + 307 pp. The MIT Press, 2006. $34.

    In her 1992 book, Imperial Eyes, literary scholar Mary Louise Pratt observed that "the space in which peoples geographically and historically separated come into contact with each other and establish ongoing relations" is often a battlefield, "usually involving conditions of coercion, radical inequality, and intractable conflict." This concept of a contact zone (to use the term Pratt coined for it) provides the basis for a hypothesis that Bruce Wexler tests in Brain and Culture—that early wiring in the brain makes it hard for people later to accept novelty and unfamiliar experiences. Difficulty in handling the unfamiliar—people with a different skin color, different values or a different ideology, for example—is an essential feature of the often-negative interactions between cultures.

    Wexler's thesis is that "the developing human brain shapes itself to its environment." The particular form of the environment is relatively insignificant. What is important, Wexler claims, is that incongruities between the environment and the developed brain introduce distress and dysfunction. He bases his argument on findings from laboratory experiments, which he applies to psychological and social problems.

    After a brief introduction describing how the human brain works, Wexler provides in part I ("Transgenerational Shaping of Human Brain Function") a review of basic neurobiological experiments examining brain plasticity. The range of topics within this domain is great and includes visual-adaptation experiments, language acquisition through imitation, and the effects of parental nurturing and sibling interactions on the development of human intelligence. In his discussion of these subjects, Wexler explores the relation between the internal structure of the brain and the external environment. For example, human frontal lobes (which, as Wexler points out, are "thought to be closely associated with values, morality, emotion, and other personality traits") are not fully mature until the age of 20 to 25 years. This late maturation may provide an evolutionary advantage, he says, in that it affords more time "to incorporate the growing collective wisdom and latest innovations."

    Part II ("The Neurobiology of Ideology") constitutes the heart and soul of this volume. Here Wexler brings empirical data from laboratory experiments to bear on historical phenomena, and neuroanatomical data to bear on social phenomena. He describes, for example, how brain-imaging studies have correlated activation of the amygdala—induced when people view pictures of ethnically diverse human faces—with social prejudice. He explores the neurobiological antagonism to difference, whether it relates to the relatively mundane (dress, food, theater) or the more profound (premarital sexual behavior, escape from a brutal parent, disobedience in combat).

    In addition, Wexler explains that people develop internal, experience-determined neural structures that "limit, shape, and focus perception" on the aspects of environmental stimulation that they commonly experience. Their external and internal worlds, therefore, act in concordance with each other. Wexler argues that when people are faced with information that does not agree with their internal structures, they deny, discredit, reinterpret or forget that information. When changes in the environment are great, corresponding internal changes are accompanied by distress and dysfunction. The inability to reconcile differences between strange others and ingrained notions of "humanness" can culminate in violence. The neurobiological imperative to maintain a balance between internal structures and external reality fuels this struggle for control, which contributes to making the contact zone a place of intractable conflict. The result manifests itself in our world today in, to give two examples, racial inequality and intercultural hostility. Indeed, part of the problem, Wexler suggests, is that interaction among diverse populations is a relatively new phenomenon:

    For 80,000 to 100,000 years human beings lived in isolated communities distributed around the globe. Division into separate communities may have preceded the development of much of a language or culture, and there may never have been a common human language or culture as we think of each today. Certainly cultures developed independently of one another over most of the history of the species, and each community was unaware that most of the others even existed. The distinguishing feature of the current epoch in human development is the discovery and initiation of contact among previously separate and very different peoples and cultures.
    Wexler describes how the prejudicial beliefs that lead to cultural clashes derive directly from sociocultural input, beginning with the important adults (parents, for instance) to whom an individual is exposed during childhood. He makes a few bigger leaps that are less easy to digest, such as when he compares a kitten's experience with unfamiliar oblique lines in a visual-plasticity experiment to that of an immigrant displaced from a village distinguished by flatlands to a city of skyscrapers. But his arguments are provocative and thoughtful nonetheless.

    However, Wexler does not appear to have considered the simple fact that some unknowns bring joy. Personality, sense of identity and taste can have a profound effect in determining whether unfamiliar stimuli are perceived as negative. People often have positive reactions to new experiences, such as the sound of an agreeable piece of music never heard before, the smell of a delicious but unfamiliar recipe, or even novel concepts such as the ones in this book.

    There have also been times when communities and even nations have overcome cultural conflict. Consider the work of Martin Luther King or the women's rights movement. To take another example, many immigrants forced to leave their home countries suffer irrecoverably from the experience, but others choose to move and find better opportunities or maybe just a pleasant change of pace. Some people are driven to help others from different cultures, as evidenced by the long existence of international organizations such as the Peace Corps, Doctors Without Borders and Engineers Without Borders.

    Furthermore, Wexler's position is that familiarity, or "consonance between inner and outer worlds," is inherently pleasurable. An external event that coincides with a past experience in a person's life, he asserts, is enjoyable "merely on the basis of familiarity and independent of any qualities of the object." But people often express negative reactions toward familiar stimuli, such as boredom with a job or relationship. In addition, some immigrants avoid moving to familiar social environments that might incite memories of painful or stressful experiences, such as racial or gender inequality. Thus not all goal-directed behavior can be explained by the internal-external dichotomy on which Wexler bases his position. These counterexamples cast doubt on his claim that familiarity is always pleasurable.

    The brain is, after all, both the driver and receiver of ideology. Certainly much of human behavior is hardwired. But unlike the heart, liver or even our genes, the brain can respond in a dynamic way not only to internal physiological cues but also to unpredictable external ones, and it can embody that response in future behavior. This book is a foray into uncharted territory, exploring how neuroscience can unveil ways to help us understand one another despite our differences. Wexler calls for education to alter our instinctive aversion to the unfamiliar, and Brain and Culture is a significant contribution to that effort. It is an approach from which all citizens and all cultures can benefit.


    Might also look up neophobes and neophiles for some good info here.


    There exists a substantial body of research that suggests that this "aversion" characteristic is the next thing to "hardwired" in most of us. BG is to be commended for forcing himself to face this issue and attempt a resolution for himself.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  21. #51
    Prince of Maldonia Member Toby and Kiki Champion, Goo Slasher Champion, Frogger Champion woad&fangs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Not entirely sure what I can add to this thread so I'll just say thank you for creating this it BG.
    Why did the chicken cross the road?

    So that its subjects will view it with admiration, as a chicken which has the daring and courage to boldly cross the road,
    but also with fear, for whom among them has the strength to contend with such a paragon of avian virtue? In such a manner is the princely
    chicken's dominion maintained. ~Machiavelli

  22. #52
    Member Member RoadKill's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    It's called Tolerance, you can never get rid of racism, all you can do is stuff it down your throat and keep it to yourself, and smile about it.
    "I thought CA was unarmed? Unless he got some samurai swords or something... I only got some rocks and some sticks." Shlin in BR realizing he has no weapons what so ever.

  23. #53
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Quote Originally Posted by Viking
    What is what? Is racism tought to you by your parents structural, or are you then talking about nation wide racism or community racism?
    Structural racism is racism within/expressed by the structures of a society. For example, if some bureaucrat in charge of some official thingy denies the service he provides to a person purely because of his race, then that is structural racism.

    Name-calling would be casual racism. It won't affect you nearly as much.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  24. #54
    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Thank you everyone, for your thoughtful replies.

    I've been busy these last couple of days, but I'll get back to you with some reflections soon.

    "If there is a sin against life, it consists not so much in despairing as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this one."
    Albert Camus "Noces"

  25. #55

    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    A question for you Banquo .
    You walk into a pub , it is full of travellers .
    What goes through your mind ?

  26. #56
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Where's me wallet!
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

  27. #57
    Involuntary Gaesatae Member The Celtic Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Quote Originally Posted by Viking
    If you for the first time saw a muslim, and you do not know what a muslim is, would you be scared of him? No, because fear comes from "knowledge" rather than not knowing. Just look at how animals at never-before-visited-places react to humans: they show no fear.
    You'd rather be interested in finding out what a muslim is before you cast what is, in your eyes, the proper judge.

    If you do not understand someone though, you might act with precaution, and the precaution might lead to racism.
    You misunderstand me.

    The first thing I would like to point out is that I spoke of the human mind and the human mind only. How other animals may or may not react in any given situation is irrelevant to my post. Though my theory may still apply for them too, as it seems to fit, but I don't know and I won't make any claims there.

    I was also not saying that, in the case we don't know anything about muslims and we then see one, we would be afraid of him because of that. Absolutely not. If you know absolutely nothing about muslims, haven't even heard a word of them, and you then see one (but he does not identify himself as one, and no one else identifies him for you) your brain will fit him in the most appropriate box for him. If there is none (if, for example, he's black and you've never seen a black man before) you'll create a new "box" based on him. That "box" will then be used for the next black man you see. So if that first black man you saw was a jolly, highly out-going to the point of annoyance, you'll cautiously believe so of the next black man you see. If he is the same, your prejudice that all blacks are jolly and highly out-going to the point of annoyance will be reinforced, and for each time you meet a black man like that, those values will get deeper and deeper burned into your "black man box".

    If however the first black person you meet robs you, and so does the next, and the next, and the next (and it doesn't matter if you're the one robbed, it's enough to see it on tv) and so on, then that prejudice will be given to your "black man box". You will then, when you see a black man, recognize him as that, put him in that box and be afraid of him because your box says he robs people.

    I don't know if I've explained this enough, or explained it in a good way at all. But to make an example of when your brain fails to do this, I will mention fear of the dark. It's not the dark itself you're afraid of, it's the fact that you can't know what's in it, because you can't see, that scares you.

    Edit: Forgot to thank you, Lemur, for that link. It was really interesting, and the terminology used was most excellent.
    Last edited by The Celtic Viking; 10-11-2007 at 15:17.

  28. #58
    Hǫrðar Member Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Quote Originally Posted by The Vicious Monkey
    You misunderstand me.

    The first thing I would like to point out is that I spoke of the human mind and the human mind only. How other animals may or may not react in any given situation is irrelevant to my post. Though my theory may still apply for them too, as it seems to fit, but I don't know and I won't make any claims there.

    I was also not saying that, in the case we don't know anything about muslims and we then see one, we would be afraid of him because of that. Absolutely not. If you know absolutely nothing about muslims, haven't even heard a word of them, and you then see one (but he does not identify himself as one, and no one else identifies him for you) your brain will fit him in the most appropriate box for him. If there is none (if, for example, he's black and you've never seen a black man before) you'll create a new "box" based on him. That "box" will then be used for the next black man you see. So if that first black man you saw was a jolly, highly out-going to the point of annoyance, you'll cautiously believe so of the next black man you see. If he is the same, your prejudice that all blacks are jolly and highly out-going to the point of annoyance will be reinforced, and for each time you meet a black man like that, those values will get deeper and deeper burned into your "black man box".

    If however the first black person you meet robs you, and so does the next, and the next, and the next (and it doesn't matter if you're the one robbed, it's enough to see it on tv) and so on, then that prejudice will be given to your "black man box". You will then, when you see a black man, recognize him as that, put him in that box and be afraid of him because your box says he robs people.

    I don't know if I've explained this enough, or explained it in a good way at all. But to make an example of when your brain fails to do this, I will mention fear of the dark. It's not the dark itself you're afraid of, it's the fact that you can't know what's in it, because you can't see, that scares you.

    Yes, only the known can be feared. Knowledge is not necessarily correct. :P


    Generally speaking one must judge every person as if he was of your own "race"; by appearance in other words. That's what there comes naturally to me anyway.
    Runes for good luck:

    [1 - exp(i*2π)]^-1

  29. #59

    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Where's me wallet!
    Seriously ?
    If so why and were there any grounds for that reaction .
    Its a question that stems through watching peoples reactions as they walked into a pub a couple of weeks ago .

  30. #60
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman
    A question for you Banquo .
    You walk into a pub , it is full of travellers .
    What goes through your mind ?
    Beer..... Beer.... More beer.... Chicks?
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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