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    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Facing up to my own racism

    I've always tried to acknowledge my innate racism and work on overcoming it. I was born into an incredibly privileged, entirely white family of impeccable pedigree so apart from an odd encounter with an over-zealous policeman during the Troubles, I have never faced any kind of exclusion. It also means that people of colour and/or separate religion were quite foreign to me until early adulthood.

    The other day, I was travelling on one of Mr Branson's fine locomotive engines in the UK, and as I sat down, I noticed a young man of Middle eastern extraction sitting quietly reading his Koran. My unbidden immediate thought was one of concern - what was his purpose, was he an extremist, perhaps the train was in danger? My second thought was scarcely less unfair, though born of some degree of shame - why would he provoke me (supposedly a fair, liberal minded sort of fellow) into such outrageous suspicion by openly reading his holy book? Did he not know that I (we?) might be made anxious?

    I am ashamed of such foolishness, but acknowledge why such thoughts occur. In the same way, I can see that when I encounter a group of coloured youths, even in daytime, I react with much more concern and anxiety than an equivalent group of white youths.

    In the event, I was able to strike up a conversation with the fellow on the train and I took the opportunity to discuss my thoughts. He was unsurprised, and said that he was not going to be intimidated from his studies by possible suspicions - good for him - and further argued that my reactions were not entirely my own fault, but had been engendered by the actions of some of his co-religionists. I'm not so sure.

    We are conditioned by our upbringing and by our experiences - but to what extent do we have to take responsibilities for our own prejudices? And how best to defeat them? How might we address this without losing the cultural values that define us as well - diversity being a good thing in my book. Is interaction and dialogue the sole solution, or does one have to dig deeper into one's soul?
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    Senior Member Senior Member econ21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost
    Is interaction and dialogue the sole solution, or does one have to dig deeper into one's soul?
    I think interaction is a big part of it. The more fanciful forms of racism (e.g. "the guy with a turban may be a suicide bomber..." "the person of that colour may be a mugger" etc) tend to be most prevalent in places without much experience of the "other". Where different ethnic groups rub shoulders, any racism tends to be more mundane and akin to the tensions experienced in any close relationship, such as a marriage (e.g. "why are they so loud/messy/talking our jobs, houses/ not doing the washing up etc"). Working in a university where you mix with folk from around the world, most racist generalisations (and sexist and every other kind of non-PC bigotry) just run contrary to my everyday experience.

    However, I suspect we do have racist ideas lurking in our subconscious, ready to jump out in a stressful situation - sort of like baser instincts (rather like flight or fight responses, primal desires or fears etc). Digging deeper - or at least exposing them to the cold light of reason - is helpful here. I mean the chances of anyone sitting next to a suicide bomber in a train are so low, you'd be better off worrying about lightning. (Yes, I know James Woods did sit next to the 9/11 bombers on a plane and even reported them to the FBI, but people do get hit by lightning too.)
    Last edited by econ21; 10-08-2007 at 14:19.

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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    You are a human being don't be so hard on yourselve. Black is not a different kind of white, when something is 'different' you notice nothing wrong with that. Didn't made you so anxious to withold you from having a chat, what's the problem.

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    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    I just reason as follows: race is not causally tied to any negative trait, therefore racism is irrational.
    Under construction...

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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    We're all innately racist, and some of the most racist people I have ever met have been of black, hispanic or Asian origin - this is not an 'ism restricted only to whites, far from it.

    I would also cross the road or take a different route if I was walking towards a group black youths. On such an occasion I wouldn't like to take the chance in being all liberal and politically correct.

    Unfortunately the social conditioning we're subjected to via the media on a daily basis works itself into our subconsciousness. A person may think that they're above such things but it does get under your skin.
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    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    I think we are all inately more warry of people the more different they are from us. There's nothing really wrong with that, so long as we realise that it's an instinctive reaction rather than a reasoned one.

    The Asian Muslim didn't make you uncomfortable just because he's Asian or Muslim but because he's different. Had he been a white Muslim or an Asian Christian you likely would have been more comfortable.

    Having said that, the current geo-politcal situation and religious tensions in the world are going to start tripping alarms in the back of your head.
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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    I have such thoughts as well Banquo, at least since some guys wanted to blow up a train that goes through Cologne and I am now using that route about every two weeks. But then I also wonder whether other people might think I could have a bomb in my really big coffer.
    No, I'm white, very white, but still.
    I think it's just that they look different, I'm not really worried but they get a bit of extra attention at times, even without reading a holy book. Sometimes it's enough if they're female.

    In the end though, I treat them like everybody else, my thoughts or feelings about someone are subject to rational testing before they dictate my actions and I have to say I've had a lot worse thoughts which I acted on than "he might be a suicide bomber".


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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost
    I've always tried to acknowledge my innate racism and work on overcoming it. I was born into an incredibly privileged, entirely white family of impeccable pedigree so apart from an odd encounter with an over-zealous policeman during the Troubles, I have never faced any kind of exclusion. It also means that people of colour and/or separate religion were quite foreign to me until early adulthood.
    I'm not sure if the highlighted opinion is your's or not but if it is your own, until you learn that there is no Pedigree, and that every man is born equal regardless of wealth etc, there is no hope for you losing your prejudices.

    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost
    We are conditioned by our upbringing and by our experiences - but to what extent do we have to take responsibilities for our own prejudices?
    By aportioning blame for who we are on our forebears has no legitimacy at all. There is certainly alot of propaganda/education out there for one to form his own opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost
    And how best to defeat them? How might we address this without losing the cultural values that define us as well -
    It depends on what you perceive as a "cultural value".

    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost
    -diversity being a good thing in my book.
    Not sure what you mean entirely. This can be either taken as very contradictory (you think diversity is a good thing like being slightly racist which in essence is opposing diversity), or very enlightened (you have seen the error of your way's and now see diversity in everthing as a good thing).

    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost
    Is interaction and dialogue the sole solution, or does one have to dig deeper into one's soul?
    Well until you can engage in dialogue like you did with the man on the train, and see that for the most part your fears are baseless, there isn't much point in searching one's self for something that is not yet apparent.



    Sorry for disecting your post, but there are many things I needed to clear up in my own head regarding your post as well as seeing where you are coming from.


    No insults or hurt intended here on my part friend.


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    Senior Member Senior Member naut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Quote Originally Posted by BG
    I was born into an incredibly privileged, entirely white family of impeccable pedigree
    This may be a bit off topic, but even without saying that, I got the sense you were by your use of the humankind collective "one", it's very typical of men who are middle-class to upper-class.

    But, on topic, I think the fact you stopped and did a double take shows that you are in fact liberal. The fact you questioned your first, instinctive/"gut felling", shows strong rationality. Because, emotions are the default response to situations, they are universally human.

    I can't really say how I'd respond though.
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    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost
    [The guy on the train] argued that my reactions were not entirely my own fault, but had been engendered by the actions of some of his co-religionists. I'm not so sure.
    What's not to be sure about? You wouldn't flip your pancake if a Hindu were reading Vedas, or if a Buddhist were reading the Abhidharma Pitaka, or if a Jew were reading the Torah.

    Let's put it another way: If albino men had been responsible for major atrocities worldwide, would you be a racist for reacting with caution when you ran into an albino male? Even knowing that only a small percentage of them were fanatical killers?

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    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Yes, because Albinos are genetic, Islam is a choice of religion.

    Bad example Lemur.

    A better one would be, "Would you feel nervous around Mormans if they had been responsible for atrocities worldwide, or vegetarians, or Republicans."
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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    Oni Member Samurai Waki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    I completely understand where you're coming from BG. I didn't really get out into the real world until about five years ago, and I have rubbed into the shoulders of a lot of people I'm still unsure about. Actually one of the best learning experiences I had as an adult recently before we moved, is Ms. Waki and I took our kids to the park, and a Muslim couple were there playing with their little boy. The Boy took off, and they became very concerned because they couldn't find him (he was playing in the sandbox) So I went up to the boy and said "I think you're parents are looking for you" and I took him over to them. They were both very grateful (the mother was practically in tears) and I think I realized at that point that aside from culture or religion, that everybody basically has the same fears and instincts, and this couple probably wants the same out of life as the Wife and I do. Weird example I know. But just thought I'd bring it up.

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    Second-hand chariot salesman Senior Member macsen rufus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Quote Originally Posted by BG
    Is interaction and dialogue the sole solution, or does one have to dig deeper into one's soul?
    A bit of both, IMHO. I think a certain amount of distrust of the 'other' is a natural by-product of us (ie humans) being social animals. Being social means identifying with a group, however subliminally. Where there is an in-group, there is an out-group. It may be people of different skin colour, different beliefs, or those who just live at the wrong end of the street. As with any instinctive behaviour it is not rational, and a bit of self-awareness and a willingness to examine one's irrational feelings (both of which you exhibit in spades, BTW ) are all to the good. It's where such feelings are mixed with resentment and unthinkingly turned into an ethos that the real problems begin. But dialogue and interaction are keys to expanding the boundaries of the "in-group", and goes hand in hand with the realisation that people are individuals and represent themselves more than any group they may happen to belong to. "I treat as I find" is a good rule of thumb.

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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla
    A better one would be, "Would you feel nervous around Mormans if they had been responsible for atrocities worldwide, or vegetarians, or Republicans."
    or cannibals?
    Last edited by Husar; 10-08-2007 at 18:05.


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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar
    or cannibals?
    If all cultures are equal cannibalism is just a matter of taste

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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony
    If all cultures are equal cannibalism is just a matter of taste
    Ha ha ha

    Fragony where do these brilliantly witty comments come from?
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

    In the event, I was able to strike up a conversation with the fellow on the train and I took the opportunity to discuss my thoughts. He was unsurprised, and said that he was not going to be intimidated from his studies by possible suspicions - good for him - and further argued that my reactions were not entirely my own fault, but had been engendered by the actions of some of his co-religionists. I'm not so sure.

    What aren't you sure about?

    Are your anxieties not a direct result of muslim extremism in your own nation and around the world?

    It is certainly not racism to be alert and aware when you see a you see a young muslim reading a koran on public transit.

    That doesn't mean one should act on those anxieties without further prompts, but to blind oneself to one's surroundings is stupid.

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    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Banquo, nice thread.

    We certainly are not all inherently racist, there is not some racist gene or some racist trigger in all our minds which is switched on from birth and has to be gradually thrust in the opposite direction during life. Racism is prevalent in some people and non existent in others, that fact alone should be proof enough to dispel a universal human nature to be racist. Sure, say until you are blue in the face that people 'really deep down inside' are racist, but that seems a pretty weak argument. You might fear you are personally a little racist 'deep down inside' but it is not right or fair to state that everyone else is. Ghandi? A racist for sure. Deep down he just hated the whites. It is not a sound argument to state that we all have racism within us, racism is created through society and culture, not because all of us are racist.

    Experience and interation with different people is the biggest factor I think in what people think of other people, same colour or not. Some of the most racist people - think where the BNP is strongest in the UK for instance - are in the areas where there is most interaction with opposite cultures. It is not simply that if you live in an all white area you are more likely to be racist and if you live in a mixed area the opposite is true. It is the type of experiences you have with other people and the type of upbringing and values you hold which are really the defining factors. Not to mention the many other factors which you hold dear to you at any specific time in your life.

    It is quite possible for someone to go through the majority of their life without an ill thought to any race or person based on race, however if something in their life happens - say an attack by a group of black youths or even a feeling that in their late stage of life they are unhappy with it - the person could quite easily turn into someone who starts to act in a racist manner. We all know the old cliche about the old, bitter man, hurt by the life he has lead and the mistakes within it and instead of blaming the person who made the choices in his life - himself - he blames other people - including other races.

    Racism isn't something that appears at birth by human nature and only goes away when you see a black man be nice, or any other silly notion like that, it is experience and values, throughout life.

    And Banquo, in your situation I think things like the media and their portrayal of muslims and Islam and the 'great terrorist threat' we are told by our politicians - of all nations - time and again by, must have an effect on many people. Maybe it just helped you pop that thought into your head, who knows, there is probably many reasons. But the fact is you faced up to them in your head and presumably now you feel happier with yourself. :)
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    Join the ICLADOLLABOJADALLA! Member IrishArmenian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Jag, the point is: its human nature to be afraid of/dislike differences.
    The goal is to rid oneself of those fears/dislikes.
    Hell, I've never bought into the Islamist extremist fear/stereotyping but other ones, rest assured, used to be prevalent in my mind.
    Last edited by IrishArmenian; 10-09-2007 at 06:32.

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    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Quote Originally Posted by IrishArmenian
    Jag, the point is: its human nature to be afraid of/dislike differences.
    The goal is to rid oneself of those fears/dislikes.
    Hell, I've never bought into the Islamist extremist fear/stereotyping but other ones, rest assured, used to be prevalent in my mind.
    How is it human nature to be afraid of / dislike differences? I haven't read that manual on the human brain, obviously. The point I would make is, not only can you not prove that but it simply is not the case. Look around you, walk down the street, you will see an instance of someone not giving two hoots about racial difference. Why can't it be human nature to embrace difference? What is the difference between them which is so significant? What is so significant about about the dislike of difference which means it is some form of super universal value? There is no such thing as any value universal in humans, and you can't prove otherwise.

    Antioch - yes I am alive, just been, er, living I guess you could call it ;)

    the prejudice you talk of, how can it be universal when you yourself doubt it in the very same post.

    whatever names it's called, is an inner devil in all but the very few humans.
    It can't be universal if it is in 'all but the very few'.

    Furthermore the examples you give, fine some people may say that, but do all? That 'gangsta wannabe' you point out, has he got this prejudice, even though he is a 'white guy' 'acting' like a 'black guy'?

    And if it is prejudice you talk of, why does it have to be connected to race at all? Surely if it is merely prejudice and weary beliefs people hold you are on about, why be connected to race at all. Surely the same kind of thing happens when some people might think of an old person sitting behind the wheel of a car - 'oh they are going to drive slow and be terrible' - or for that matter what some people might think of a white, skin headed youngster behind the wheel - 'oh he is going to drive crazy'. What it sounds like you are hinting at is not prejudice based on anything, merely stereotypes and prejudice in general. Nothing you state in your post explains why this has to be a merely racial thing.

    And stereotyping or this kind of prejudice again merely comes from society and culture, not by some human nature present in every human. I fail to see the point you put across.
    GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
    INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
    GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
    INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.

    Jean Paul Sartre - No Exit 1944

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    American since 2012 Senior Member AntiochusIII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    It can't be universal if it is in 'all but the very few'.
    Semantics.
    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    Furthermore the examples you give, fine some people may say that, but do all? That 'gangsta wannabe' you point out, has he got this prejudice, even though he is a 'white guy' 'acting' like a 'black guy'?
    You're missing the point.

    The example is merely a popular anecdote of what is going on.

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    And if it is prejudice you talk of, why does it have to be connected to race at all? Surely if it is merely prejudice and weary beliefs people hold you are on about, why be connected to race at all. Surely the same kind of thing happens when some people might think of an old person sitting behind the wheel of a car - 'oh they are going to drive slow and be terrible' - or for that matter what some people might think of a white, skin headed youngster behind the wheel - 'oh he is going to drive crazy'. What it sounds like you are hinting at is not prejudice based on anything, merely stereotypes and prejudice in general. Nothing you state in your post explains why this has to be a merely racial thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by My posts from earlier
    One could call it prejudice, or any other name. It's the same mentality that -- I think, since I don't exactly speak for everyone -- whatever names it's called, is an inner devil in all but the very few humans.

    ...

    It was, I think, racism (white), a gap of age (old), class conflict (rich, "aristocratic"), and all sorts of other -isms mixed into one, all of which essentially refers to the same idea of "us" and "them."
    Let us explore the surface of racism shall we? What is it? A fear of different skin colors, different social backgrounds, different languages, different cultures, different... well, many differences mixed into one.

    What is xenophobia? A fear of people from foreign countries.

    Etc.

    What do they all have in common? A fear of difference. That's where I'm trying to point the topic to. No need to restrict ourselves because the same thing has many ways of expressing out.

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    And stereotyping or this kind of prejudice again merely comes from society and culture, not by some human nature present in every human. I fail to see the point you put across.
    Can you expand on this assertion?

    Curious. You seem to refuse to acknowledge what I (and apparently a lot of other people, going by this thread) see as innate racism in all of us, and consequently something worth exploring in. You claim it is entirely a societal construction; why?


    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore
    Also, if something was "in human nature", then it should be logical that it applies to every human, shouldn't it? Well, if the OP is in our nature, then every european should behave the same way, shouldn't they? I mean, it's in our nature, wasn't that the point? But why then don't everyone react the same way? Maybe because it's a learned trait, not something in our nature?
    See the statement in Papewaio's sig.
    _____________

    Interesting indeed. You two seem to consider the concept of human nature as false. That is not a position I see very often. If you don't mind, how about expanding upon it for us?

    And before jumping anywhere, duly note that recognizing our base instincts is different from justifying them. Again, see Papewaio's sig.

    On a related point, I think both your assertions that "we" fear "Muslims" is the result of mass media and society pointing us that way. I sincerely think that they don't have nearly as much impact as you both claim they have. They might indeed be responsible for pointing our fears to the "Muslims," but that is merely a direction; the fear comes from us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    I also don't see why people are jumping on PJ's comment. I thought it was perfectly fair.
    Based on your advice, I shall pay very much attention to this Arabic-looking guy I see every other day in class for fear of his potential danger based on the general perception of terrorists of today I think.

    It's not my fault of course. It never is. I'm just rightfully afraid because people who apparently look like him are apparently doing bad things around the world. And this has nothing to do with racism either.
    Last edited by AntiochusIII; 10-09-2007 at 08:25.

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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    How is it human nature to be afraid of / dislike differences? I haven't read that manual on the human brain, obviously. The point I would make is, not only can you not prove that but it simply is not the case. Look around you, walk down the street, you will see an instance of someone not giving two hoots about racial difference. Why can't it be human nature to embrace difference?
    Consider:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Our Aversion to the Unfamiliar
    Judy Illes, Vivian Chin
    Brain and Culture: Neurobiology, Ideology, and Social Change. Bruce E. Wexler. xii + 307 pp. The MIT Press, 2006. $34.

    In her 1992 book, Imperial Eyes, literary scholar Mary Louise Pratt observed that "the space in which peoples geographically and historically separated come into contact with each other and establish ongoing relations" is often a battlefield, "usually involving conditions of coercion, radical inequality, and intractable conflict." This concept of a contact zone (to use the term Pratt coined for it) provides the basis for a hypothesis that Bruce Wexler tests in Brain and Culture—that early wiring in the brain makes it hard for people later to accept novelty and unfamiliar experiences. Difficulty in handling the unfamiliar—people with a different skin color, different values or a different ideology, for example—is an essential feature of the often-negative interactions between cultures.

    Wexler's thesis is that "the developing human brain shapes itself to its environment." The particular form of the environment is relatively insignificant. What is important, Wexler claims, is that incongruities between the environment and the developed brain introduce distress and dysfunction. He bases his argument on findings from laboratory experiments, which he applies to psychological and social problems.

    After a brief introduction describing how the human brain works, Wexler provides in part I ("Transgenerational Shaping of Human Brain Function") a review of basic neurobiological experiments examining brain plasticity. The range of topics within this domain is great and includes visual-adaptation experiments, language acquisition through imitation, and the effects of parental nurturing and sibling interactions on the development of human intelligence. In his discussion of these subjects, Wexler explores the relation between the internal structure of the brain and the external environment. For example, human frontal lobes (which, as Wexler points out, are "thought to be closely associated with values, morality, emotion, and other personality traits") are not fully mature until the age of 20 to 25 years. This late maturation may provide an evolutionary advantage, he says, in that it affords more time "to incorporate the growing collective wisdom and latest innovations."

    Part II ("The Neurobiology of Ideology") constitutes the heart and soul of this volume. Here Wexler brings empirical data from laboratory experiments to bear on historical phenomena, and neuroanatomical data to bear on social phenomena. He describes, for example, how brain-imaging studies have correlated activation of the amygdala—induced when people view pictures of ethnically diverse human faces—with social prejudice. He explores the neurobiological antagonism to difference, whether it relates to the relatively mundane (dress, food, theater) or the more profound (premarital sexual behavior, escape from a brutal parent, disobedience in combat).

    In addition, Wexler explains that people develop internal, experience-determined neural structures that "limit, shape, and focus perception" on the aspects of environmental stimulation that they commonly experience. Their external and internal worlds, therefore, act in concordance with each other. Wexler argues that when people are faced with information that does not agree with their internal structures, they deny, discredit, reinterpret or forget that information. When changes in the environment are great, corresponding internal changes are accompanied by distress and dysfunction. The inability to reconcile differences between strange others and ingrained notions of "humanness" can culminate in violence. The neurobiological imperative to maintain a balance between internal structures and external reality fuels this struggle for control, which contributes to making the contact zone a place of intractable conflict. The result manifests itself in our world today in, to give two examples, racial inequality and intercultural hostility. Indeed, part of the problem, Wexler suggests, is that interaction among diverse populations is a relatively new phenomenon:

    For 80,000 to 100,000 years human beings lived in isolated communities distributed around the globe. Division into separate communities may have preceded the development of much of a language or culture, and there may never have been a common human language or culture as we think of each today. Certainly cultures developed independently of one another over most of the history of the species, and each community was unaware that most of the others even existed. The distinguishing feature of the current epoch in human development is the discovery and initiation of contact among previously separate and very different peoples and cultures.
    Wexler describes how the prejudicial beliefs that lead to cultural clashes derive directly from sociocultural input, beginning with the important adults (parents, for instance) to whom an individual is exposed during childhood. He makes a few bigger leaps that are less easy to digest, such as when he compares a kitten's experience with unfamiliar oblique lines in a visual-plasticity experiment to that of an immigrant displaced from a village distinguished by flatlands to a city of skyscrapers. But his arguments are provocative and thoughtful nonetheless.

    However, Wexler does not appear to have considered the simple fact that some unknowns bring joy. Personality, sense of identity and taste can have a profound effect in determining whether unfamiliar stimuli are perceived as negative. People often have positive reactions to new experiences, such as the sound of an agreeable piece of music never heard before, the smell of a delicious but unfamiliar recipe, or even novel concepts such as the ones in this book.

    There have also been times when communities and even nations have overcome cultural conflict. Consider the work of Martin Luther King or the women's rights movement. To take another example, many immigrants forced to leave their home countries suffer irrecoverably from the experience, but others choose to move and find better opportunities or maybe just a pleasant change of pace. Some people are driven to help others from different cultures, as evidenced by the long existence of international organizations such as the Peace Corps, Doctors Without Borders and Engineers Without Borders.

    Furthermore, Wexler's position is that familiarity, or "consonance between inner and outer worlds," is inherently pleasurable. An external event that coincides with a past experience in a person's life, he asserts, is enjoyable "merely on the basis of familiarity and independent of any qualities of the object." But people often express negative reactions toward familiar stimuli, such as boredom with a job or relationship. In addition, some immigrants avoid moving to familiar social environments that might incite memories of painful or stressful experiences, such as racial or gender inequality. Thus not all goal-directed behavior can be explained by the internal-external dichotomy on which Wexler bases his position. These counterexamples cast doubt on his claim that familiarity is always pleasurable.

    The brain is, after all, both the driver and receiver of ideology. Certainly much of human behavior is hardwired. But unlike the heart, liver or even our genes, the brain can respond in a dynamic way not only to internal physiological cues but also to unpredictable external ones, and it can embody that response in future behavior. This book is a foray into uncharted territory, exploring how neuroscience can unveil ways to help us understand one another despite our differences. Wexler calls for education to alter our instinctive aversion to the unfamiliar, and Brain and Culture is a significant contribution to that effort. It is an approach from which all citizens and all cultures can benefit.


    Might also look up neophobes and neophiles for some good info here.


    There exists a substantial body of research that suggests that this "aversion" characteristic is the next thing to "hardwired" in most of us. BG is to be commended for forcing himself to face this issue and attempt a resolution for himself.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  23. #23
    American since 2012 Senior Member AntiochusIII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    PanzerJager: lol. Did you notice the part where our dangerous terrorist train-bombing scum most understandingly discusses Banquo's reaction with such a conciliatory attitude?

    He should be shot, right? Like them UK police did to some poor Brazilian (?) guy a while back?

    JAG: [He's alive!?] Racism doesn't necessarily means BNP-style racial hatred. No, it can be something much less harmful, much smaller, most of the time not even noticeable: the choice of our friends, the attraction, the extra wariness one gives to an unfamiliar person with a different color of skin, the stereotyping...

    It can be obvious: "black people are dirty!/ look at that white gangsta-wannabe, he shouldn't even try/ all Asians like videogames, don't you like videogames? etc." Or it can be subtle; it can even be subconscious most of the time.

    I think these are the racisms that Banquo & co., me included, are talking about, the kind of thing a normal person must confront; not the Kill-all-Jews fascist style racism.

    One could call it prejudice, or any other name. It's the same mentality that -- I think, since I don't exactly speak for everyone -- whatever names it's called, is an inner devil in all but the very few humans.

    Specific appearances of racism can be seen from cultural and societal issues, true, but the underlying mentality I'd say is rather indisputably universal.
    Last edited by AntiochusIII; 10-09-2007 at 06:40.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiochusIII
    PanzerJager: lol. Did you notice the part where our dangerous terrorist train-bombing scum most understandingly discusses Banquo's reaction with such a conciliatory attitude?

    He should be shot, right? Like them UK police did to some poor Brazilian (?) guy a while back?
    Not the point at all.

    Here it is more directly...

    Recently, there have been many terrorist attacks across the globe, including several in the UK, perpetrated by young, religious, muslim men. Many of these attacks have been carried out on public transit.

    Therefore, being slightly alerted when seeing a young muslim reading a koran on a train is not so much a sign of ingrained racism, but a reaction to recent events, and is not a bad thing. Being aware of your surroundings is never a bad thing.

    I, of course, did not say he needed to shoot the guy..

  25. #25
    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJager
    Not the point at all.

    Here it is more directly...

    Recently, there have been many terrorist attacks across the globe, including several in the UK, perpetrated by young, religious, muslim men. Many of these attacks have been carried out on public transit.

    Therefore, being slightly alerted when seeing a young muslim reading a koran on a train is not so much a sign of ingrained racism, but a reaction to recent events, and is not a bad thing. Being aware of your surroundings is never a bad thing.

    I, of course, did not say he needed to shoot the guy..
    Here is it more directly...

    Recently, there have been many attacks across the globe, including several in Iraq, perpetrated by young, religious, Christian men. Many of these attacks have been carried out on public transit.

    Therefore, being slightly alerted when seeing a young Christian toting a gun on a tank is not so much a sign of ingrained terrorism, but a reaction to recent events, and is not a bad thing. Being aware of your surroundings is never a bad thing.

    I, of course, did not say he needed to shoot the guy..
    GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
    INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
    GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
    INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.

    Jean Paul Sartre - No Exit 1944

  26. #26
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Hmmm, sounds like Jag left his tower and had a slice of life

  27. #27
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    Racism isn't something that appears at birth by human nature and only goes away when you see a black man be nice, or any other silly notion like that, it is experience and values, throughout life.
    Tribalism is something we're born with, and it is an essential part of human nature. We are social animals. That has consequences. Racism is just an extension of tribalism; for us to be in the tribe, others must be defined out. Skin color is just one of many stupid ways we humans have of expressing this.

    Time, education and experience can dull the more counter-productive aspects of tribalism, but we've all got it in our bones. To argue otherwise is to deny our heritage and reality.

    I also don't see why people are jumping on PJ's comment. I thought it was perfectly fair. I also think the Islamic gentleman on the train handled the situation with grace and aplomb, based on BG's description.

  28. #28
    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    Tribalism is something we're born with, and it is an essential part of human nature. We are social animals. That has consequences. Racism is just an extension of tribalism; for us to be in the tribe, others must be defined out. Skin color is just one of many stupid ways we humans have of expressing this.

    Time, education and experience can dull the more counter-productive aspects of tribalism, but we've all got it in our bones. To argue otherwise is to deny our heritage and reality.
    As I have said many times here, I do not believe in human nature and it would take one hell of a lot of convincing to make me change my mind. People do not have universal moral and ethical values and actions, it cannot be proved and is not the case. People make their own damn minds up based on a number of things, including experience and surroundings.

    Tribalism, what is that? Can you even define it in a way to apply it to all humans throughout time? And if so, how can racism then be an extention of it?
    GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
    INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
    GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
    INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.

    Jean Paul Sartre - No Exit 1944

  29. #29
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    As I have said many times here, I do not believe in human nature and it would take one hell of a lot of convincing to make me change my mind.
    You seriously don't believe in human nature? fascinating.
    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    Tribalism, what is that? Can you even define it in a way to apply it to all humans throughout time? And if so, how can racism then be an extention of it?
    Easily done. Tribalism is the innate desire to belong to a group of humans. The desire to belong is universal and timeless. How can racism be an extension of it? I already described the process in my previous post. To belong to a group, the group must be defined. There are those who are in it, and those who are not. One cannot be inside if there is no outside. Do I need to go on? This seems pretty basic and obvious ...

  30. #30
    Member Member atheotes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Facing up to my own racism

    Thanks to banquo for an excellent topic...

    i too think that racism is universal... i am from India and i have seen a lot and felt too... the black/white stereotype has probably been the most publicised/discussed one... there are other forms of racism found in every society. Given to our basic instincts racism seems to come naturally till reason over rides it.
    Last edited by atheotes; 10-09-2007 at 16:36.

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