sword/spear swap

[gurakshun]

in the interest of gameplay, can all dual wield Celtic units (ones that use both swords and spears) have spears as main weapon and swords as secondary? The Celtic longsword is 90% of the time far more effective in combat than the spear, and the bug of getting knocked down and then using spear for the rest of the fight plagues them. if sword is secondary, you can alt-click on enemies and no matter whether they get knocked down or not, they will be using swords - which is much better.


i know its "minorly ahistorical" but that damn hardcoded bug lowers fighting effectiveness of most celtic units (with the exception of the arjoz, who has 14[!] spear attack and can actually pull it off) by a lot - solduros, rycacalawre all take a serious hit with the lower damage and immensely lower lethality/swing speed. now hopefully they should charge with spears and engage in infighting with swords like they were supposed to.

i also imagine this wouldnt require much from a design point of view, just swapping the order of the weapon - no new model change or anything, and it should be applied to all units whose sword attack/lethality combination is much better than the spear attack/lethality combination. massilian hoplites and galatikoi kuarotheroi come immediately to mind as well as the units i mentioned above.

[gurakshun]

was this really such a bad idea?

[NeoSpartan]

well I did that already for my MP games, along with Madmatg, Gaius, Iceman, TWFanatic, & couple of other folks I forgot thier name.

Yeah those Gauls that have both weapons suck with spears. Delete the Spear entry and put the Sword as the primary weapon, now those Gauls will do some major butt kicking in ur game

[Megas Methuselah]

I assume it was made that way for the hard-coded AI stupidity...

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

I assume it was made that way for the hard-coded AI stupidity...

Correct. Without the phalanx attribute they charge with secondary weapon instead of primary.

[gurakshun]

at the cost of our gameplay! nothing is more infuriating than your units underperforming because they pull out that god damn spear which is only useful against cav, and even so in a limited extent.

i really dont think that we should suffer just because the AI (which isnt even affected by this bug, it switches weapons at will) decides to charge with the wrong weapon (which it only does ONCE, its first charge) and then it can switch at will while fighting, even pulling out javs and shooting in the middle of hand to hand combat which defies all logic.

let me summarize: the AI only charges wrong at first, then can switch to any weapon it feels like - it is not affected by the bug in a major gameplay way.

humans on the other hand, once their guys are knocked down, are relegated to using the spear NO MATTER WHAT for the REST OF THE BATTLE. its so bad that some of us even just ignore units that dual wield sword and spear and just go for the sole-sword users, whether they use javs or not....For example, neitos will own solduros if you are controlling the solduros.

[Dram]

theres no reason for the player to train any of those units because they perform worse than other cheaper sword wielding units. i played my arverni campaign for ages to get to the late reforms and was dissapointed to find that the only heavy infantry worth using on a cost/performance basis where the neitos and gaesate (how come they dissapear in the first reforms then come back in the second?). i couldent agree more with this proposal.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

at the cost of our gameplay! nothing is more infuriating than your units underperforming because they pull out that god damn spear which is only useful against cav, and even so in a limited extent.

i really dont think that we should suffer just because the AI (which isnt even affected by this bug, it switches weapons at will) decides to charge with the wrong weapon (which it only does ONCE, its first charge) and then it can switch at will while fighting, even pulling out javs and shooting in the middle of hand to hand combat which defies all logic.

let me summarize: the AI only charges wrong at first, then can switch to any weapon it feels like - it is not affected by the bug in a major gameplay way.

humans on the other hand, once their guys are knocked down, are relegated to using the spear NO MATTER WHAT for the REST OF THE BATTLE. its so bad that some of us even just ignore units that dual wield sword and spear and just go for the sole-sword users, whether they use javs or not....For example, neitos will own solduros if you are controlling the solduros.

Nope. Just use Alt-Attack.

People should learn the game commands before posting.

[gurakshun]

Nope. Just use Alt-Attack.

People should learn the game commands before posting.

i already use ALt+attack...you clearly don't understand the nuances of the RTW engine as there is a bug that affects human controlled units - whenever your guys get knocked down and get back up, they switch to their (inferior) second weapon and stay like that.

Please read the posts and THINK before posting.

[Megas Methuselah]

Nope. Just use Alt-Attack.

People should learn the game commands before posting.

He mentioned that at the start of the thread. The problem is that the Celtic units have the spear as their secondary weapon and their swords as their primary.


EDIT: aw, that's just plain frustrating. He answered a minute before me...!

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

i already use ALt+attack...you clearly don't understand the nuances of the RTW engine as there is a bug that affects human controlled units - whenever your guys get knocked down and get back up, they switch to their (inferior) second weapon and stay like that.

Please read the posts and THINK before posting.

It's because I understand the nuances of the RTW engine that they have this setup. I was the one who proposed it and implemented it. The other way around it's worse. So, be sure to Alt-Attack when enough of your men have switched to spears. Besides, if this setup was to change it would be to make them spear units with only one weapon because that was the main weapon for these units. Want that?

You should THINK before you post.

[Watchman]

Doesn't the AI have some issues regarding secondary weapons anyway ? I know it does with cavalry (which is why I've modded the assorted lancers' base attack values up a bit to keep them from getting too badly creamed by human-controlled opponents with, say, secondary axes...), and given the penalties the "spear" attributes give against infantry I dread to think what'd happen if the poor elites got thoroughly stuck using those...

Random side note: it's quite doable enough to make your units toss javelins in melee too, although it tends to take some persistence and they tend to suffer some casualties in the process. But it's one of the better ways to hurt low-armour high-skill enemies fast (one ready application is when you're clearing those North African settlements of the annoyingly stubborn and numerous Numidian infantry skirmishers with Libyans as Carthage... those pesky fellows have armour like 0 or 1 but defense skill somewhere around 10). It's not terribly unrealistic either, as I understand the rear ranks of javelin-carrying infantry tended to contribute by lobbing projectiles over their comrades into the enemy formation.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Doesn't the AI have some issues regarding secondary weapons anyway ?

Yes.

I know it does with cavalry (which is why I've modded the assorted lancers' base attack values up a bit to keep them from getting too badly creamed by human-controlled opponents with, say, secondary axes...), and given the penalties the "spear" attributes give against infantry I dread to think what'd happen if the poor elites got thoroughly stuck using those...

Well, we can skip the spear attribute if we want them to be more anti-infantry. Besides, we can use mount effects without the spear attribute to make them fight well against infantry and well against cavalry.

[gurakshun]

It's because I understand the nuances of the RTW engine that they have this setup. I was the one who proposed it and implemented it. The other way around it's worse. So, be sure to Alt-Attack when enough of your men have switched to spears. Besides, if this setup was to change it would be to make them spear units with only one weapon because that was the main weapon for these units. Want that?

You should THINK before you post.

ok, so basically i need to watch every dual-wield unit of mine in the battle and consistently make sure they are alt-attacking. gotcha.

[raenor]

You just watch em every so often. When there are a few (10 or whatever) with the wrong weapon alt attack again and they're off. Its not too hard unless heaps is going on.

[NeoSpartan]

Why are u making this harder on yourself??

The unit will swith from Swords-to-Spear everytime it gets knocked down. So if you don't want that to happen then DELETE the Spear in the EDU.

If you don't know how then ask!