Stuck Between Two Cultures

[woad&fangs]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1879
"Muslim" Woman in Britain reconstructs her "virginity" to keep family honour and her own life on the eve of her wedding night.


Smileys are aimed at her family, her boyfriend, and religious fanatics everywhere, not her.

[Boyar Son]

I feel like honor killing too.

who doesnt want to honor kill?

[Incongruous]

Honor kill?
I have not come across that one on Halo yet. How many kills is it?
Is it followed up by a voice over saying "mass hysteria"?

I thought it was usually called murder, normal people do that too.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Wait I don't get it. If she's on the daily mail couldn't her relatives find out and honor-kill her for having sex and then getting an operation to try to fool them? this article makes no sense, unless they forgot to mention that they didn't publish her real name...

[Slug For A Butt]

Yup, normal people do that too. But they don't try to justify murdering another human by calling it an "honour killing" because someone has fallen for someone not of their religious sect/failed their driving test for the umpteenth time/failed to have tea on the table when the husband gets home etc.
"Normal" people would be classed as murderers and so should these scum. Dress it up how they want to in a third world country, but live in a supposedly free thinking, secular society and be prepared to labelled as murdering filth. Live by the rules you make a pretence to accept.

[Husar]

I got some erm 80 honor partly due to killing in a game I played.

But seriously, that sounds very bad. Honor killings are one of the worst cultural things I've come across. Right next to family feuds.

[Incongruous]

Yup, normal people do that too. But they don't try to justify murdering another human by calling it an "honour killing" because someone has fallen for someone not of their religious sect/failed their driving test for the umpteenth time/failed to have tea on the table when the husband gets home etc.
"Normal" people would be classed as murderers and so should these scum. Dress it up how they want to in a third world country, but live in a supposedly free thinking, secular society and be prepared to labelled as murdering filth. Live by the rules you make a pretence to accept.

So we all agree that they are simply murderers?
Or should I get out the Hysterical Headlines?
MUSLIM HONO(U)R KILLINGS FOR VIRGINITY!
That's gonna sell alot of papers.

How is murder cultural? Why classify it as anything but?
Just because that's the excuse doesn't make it any different.

[Devastatin Dave]

Lovely....

[Slug For A Butt]

Murder is murder in a country where murder is murder.
In Britain murder is murder, and trying to bring foreign culture into it should make no difference at all. This is Britain and it is murder.
It may be viewed differently in Pakistan or Bangladesh, but in that case commit these murders in those countries instead (unless the victim is born in Britain in which case it is a British consular matter).

[Marshal Murat]

A most peculiar paradox.

[Mikeus Caesar]

Makes me glad i moved to Australia - aren't as many muslims here from what i can tell, and subsequently nowhere near as many hysterical attention grabbing headlines about 'muslim fanatics' and 'mad mullahs' that you get back in Britain.

Either that, or papers over here just don't care about it all. Whatever. I'm happy.

[CountArach]

Makes me glad i moved to Australia - aren't as many muslims here from what i can tell

You would be wrong about that assumption. They just haven't made headlines in a while.

[Mikeus Caesar]

You would be wrong about that assumption. They just haven't made headlines in a while.

So my second assumption was more correct?

That raises even more questions - such as why are muslims in Britain apparently more radical, and why do papers in Britain favour such sensationalist stories about muslims as opposed to other countries.

[Tribesman]

why do papers in Britain favour such sensationalist stories about muslims as opposed to other countries.

Well in this case the founding principle of the publication is to sell copies by giving the readers something to hate every day.

[Mikeus Caesar]

Well in this case the founding principle of the publication is to sell copies by giving the readers something to hate every day.

I think there you are talking middle-Britain's favourite rag, the Daily Mail.

[CountArach]

So my second assumption was more correct?

That raises even more questions - such as why are muslims in Britain apparently more radical, and why do papers in Britain favour such sensationalist stories about muslims as opposed to other countries.

The only really major thing about Muslims here in the last 12 months has been this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taj_El-...er_2006_sermon

Well in this case the founding principle of the publication is to sell copies by giving the readers something to hate every day.

To be fair, this is the major reason that most Newspapers are in circulation.

[Fragony]

They do that here as well, it's pretty common, believe insurance even covers it.

Edit, article states that it is a long and painful opration, that is not true only the membrane(?) is restored. Or maybe they use the hot milk technique in england, you know, hang her upside down, pour and wait.

[Geoffrey S]

Perhaps I'm alone here, but she brought this 'dilemma' on herself. She tried to live one life while pretending to live another, will now live one life and quite probably want to live another, and sooner or later she'll be found out. She quite clearly at one point choose for the arranged marriage and her family's values, and I think in doing so also choose the accompanying obligations. All I mean to say is it shows how essential honesty about yourself is.

[Husar]

Perhaps I'm alone here, but she brought this 'dilemma' on herself. She tried to live one life while pretending to live another, will now live one life and quite probably want to live another, and sooner or later she'll be found out. She quite clearly at one point choose for the arranged marriage and her family's values, and I think in doing so also choose the accompanying obligations. All I mean to say is it shows how essential honesty about yourself is.

You forget the tiny itsy bitsy detail that by choosing anything else than what her nutjob family wants she will choose to be the victim of a so-called honor killing as the nutjobs will think she betrayed the family.

[Don Corleone]

Come on guys. 'Honor killing' is just a buzz-term, meant to demean Muslims and their culture. You're all showing yourselves to be ignorant bigots. This is clearly part of their culture, and we should learn to be tolerant of different viewpoints. And if you can't get on board with this, you're clearly a closeted homosexual leading a repressed life.

[Odin]

Come on guys. 'Honor killing' is just a buzz-term, meant to demean Muslims and their culture. You're all showing yourselves to be ignorant bigots. This is clearly part of their culture, and we should learn to be tolerant of different viewpoints. And if you can't get on board with this, you're clearly a closeted homosexual leading a repressed life.

Beautiful, not as much bile as i like in my sarcasm but your a nicer guy then I am.

Out shoveling snow much this weekend Don?

[Geoffrey S]

You forget the tiny itsy bitsy detail that by choosing anything else than what her nutjob family wants she will choose to be the victim of a so-called honor killing as the nutjobs will think she betrayed the family.

I did? I think you're missing the fact that honour killings are extremely rare (though each one is one too many), certainly in England, and that the girl made quite clear in the interview that she made her own choice between upholding her family's 'honour' and her own life, and choose the former. There are options for creating a new life away from her family (which she was initially following by living seperately) to prevent the unlikely possibility of honour killing.

My opinion is that it's a sensationalist article which has little bearing on everyday reality about a girl who is making a stupid mistake by flip-flopping between two worlds without accepting the consequences of her actions.

"I realised I had two choices. I could either move back to London and live a Western life, bringing shame on my poor parents and estrange myself from the sisters, aunts and uncles I loved. Or I could go along with their dreams of an arranged marriage.

"A Muslim husband would have the same values as me, and I would be firmly back within my family support system.

[Devastatin Dave]

Perhaps I'm alone here, but she brought this 'dilemma' on herself. She tried to live one life while pretending to live another, will now live one life and quite probably want to live another, and sooner or later she'll be found out. She quite clearly at one point choose for the arranged marriage and her family's values, and I think in doing so also choose the accompanying obligations. All I mean to say is it shows how essential honesty about yourself is.

Stone her!!! I bet she shows are ankles in public as well. The outrage!!!

[Husar]

You got me there, didn't read the article.

In that case you're right, but it just shows that her family doesn't consist of nutjobs as I assumed, apparently.
In cases where the family is that way, it doesn't really help though, have to flee and hide if you want to be honest then.

[Geoffrey S]

In cases where the family is that way, it doesn't really help though, have to flee and hide if you want to be honest then.

Same principle in my opinion. In that case, either she stays with her family and their barbaric 'principles', or she decides to live her own life and if necessary contacts whichever support centre can provide help. Again it's all about choices; living one way at home and another way elsewhere is asking for trouble. It doesn't absolve one of making a choice in most cases, it delays it until a point where things do indeed go wrong and escalate in a far shorter time.

[Husar]

What I'm trying to say is that in a free country noone should be afraid that the family will kill her/him because who they choose to marry.
Pretty nice of you to say that one can seek protection but in a free country that shouldn't be necessary.

[HoreTore]

"Muslim" Woman in Britain reconstructs her "virginity" to keep family honour and her own life on the eve of her wedding night.

Like Britney did?

[Fragony]

Like Britney did?

Enter relativation, make yourselve comfortable. Maybe it is just me me, but there has to be a fine line between being succesfull and being dead but maybe that is a nuancation for the tongues with a more refined taste then mine.

[JR-]

why do papers in Britain favour such sensationalist stories about muslims as opposed to other countries.

because we don't expect that kind of backward logic to be used as a justification.

when in india we decided the practice of suti (sticking your wife on the pyre of the dead husband) was a pretty revolting habit............. so we stamped on it.

widows have been happier creatures ever since.

oh, we offended some cultural sensibilities and hanged a few miscreants in the process............. but i don't give a damn.

[IrishArmenian]

Honour killing? Its murder, I don't care how you spin it. I feel the need for cultural revolutions.