A question regarding swastikas

**Foot** · 10-09-2007, 19:29

Originally Posted by I Am Herenow

That's what I mean: it would jump out at you/jarr with the rest of the game, even if you knew better.

It wouldn't for me. I can safely and reliably differentiate between the swastika as used by neo-nazi groups to remember and relive the fascist ideologies and nationalist politics of the Nazi Part of German, and the ancient symbol found in many indo-european cultures across europa and asia. But maybe thats just me...

Foot

**Admetos** · 10-09-2007, 19:43

Eventhough I know about said Swastika in ancient times, I must say the first thing I associate it with is the hideous acts carried out by the nazi party, as generally people learn about the nazi use of the swastika before the ancient uses of it. I agree with overweightninja, if it is included for historical reasons which I am in no way, shape or form against, then a patch along the lines of the Gaesatae Modesty Patch should be released as well.

**Watchman** · 10-09-2007, 20:01

IMHO anyone who couldn't make the distinction was playing the wrong game to begin with. And/or should sharpen his or her Wiki-fu a bit.

But then again I have notoriously little patience with that sort of ignorance.

**I Am Herenow** · 10-09-2007, 20:08

Like I say, looking at it can still make people feel a bit uncomfortable, even if they do know why it's in the game. Best to leave it if there's an alternative shield design/whatever that can be used IMO.

**Foot** · 10-09-2007, 20:09

Originally Posted by Watchman

IMHO anyone who couldn't make the distinction was playing the wrong game to begin with. And/or should sharpen his or her Wiki-fu a bit.

But then again I have notoriously little patience with that sort of ignorance.

I didn't realise it was so widely spread throughout human culture. Very interesting.

Foot

**Watchman** · 10-09-2007, 20:18

I've read it was a popular good-luck charm among soldiers around the end of WW1 actually. But in any case we were using it in official functions long before those poseur Nazis even existed...
(I've heard they only changed the Order of the White Rose's Grand Cross with Chains from the original pattern after a certain Charles de Gaulle had politely turned down the thing during a state visit... something about it not being appropriate for him to wear something with swastikas.)

**MiniMe** · 10-09-2007, 20:56

Originally Posted by I Am Herenow

Like I say, looking at it can still make people feel a bit uncomfortable, even if they do know why it's in the game.

Well, who cares about people unable to see and accept the difference between neo-nazi idiots and adequate representation of ancient indo-european culture?

**Bootsiuv** · 10-09-2007, 20:57

Although, like others have said, is it not illegal in Germany? No matter which direction it is oriented?

Considering how many Germans play EB, it might not be the best idea to get EB banned in Germany (although it would be pretty silly if they did, considering the context it would be used in).

**Oleander Ardens** · 10-09-2007, 21:11

When I was in India my trekking partner from Israel seemed especially keen to make fotos of Swastikas - a strange kind of attraction, a playful way to confront a sign under a part of his family was killed. Said that I would prefer to have a mod with would alllow the inclusion of it, because it was a symbol of great importance for many ancient cultures...

I quite sure that no person will accuse me to spread Nazi propaganda for advocating this policy

Cheers
OA

**KARTLOS** · 10-10-2007, 06:36

i would prefer it is kept out of the game, or at least is not used in association with germanic units. it certainly brings back unpleasant memories of what the germans inflicted on the world in the 30's and 40's.

**Mouzafphaerre** · 10-10-2007, 07:29

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Originally Posted by Mouzafphaerre

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The Swastika on the walls of the ruins of Ani, ancient Armenian-Georgian (Bagrat) city in NE Turkey:

The photos were taken by me in Aug. 2006; crazily resized down here.
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Originally Posted by artavazd

Here is an image of the medival city of Ani which was the capital of Armenia during the Bagratuni kings. ( a branch of the Armenian Bagratuni's became kings of Georgia lasting until 1801 AD)

http://www.hayary.org/images/star_pictures/ani.jpg

.

**Intranetusa** · 10-13-2007, 19:54

^ btw, the swastika is also a symbol for love and peace :) in Buddhism, and is commonly found in Buddhist festivals in PRC-China, ROC-Taiwan, Koreas, and Japan.

**Kham** · 10-15-2007, 16:20

Originally Posted by Bootsiuv

Although, like others have said, is it not illegal in Germany? No matter which direction it is oriented?

The answer to that is not entirely clear. There was a guy who had a shop selling Anti-Fa (Anti-Fascist group, mostly punks) stuff like t-shirts with images like a broken swastika in a waste-basket. Or one in a red circle with a red bar across it (like road-signs for things that are forbidden).

He was charged by an over-ambitious state-attorney and sentenced by a low-level court for distributing forbidden nazi-propaganda.

But a higher-level court ruled last year, that yes: he was indeed showing a nazi-symbol. But no: he did not advertise nazi ideas but was trying to fight them.

What complicates the whole issue is, that neo-nazis used many stylized nazi symbols to prevent the ban of the "original" ones.

So now it is up to courts to decide from case to case whether the usage could be promoting nazi ideas or fighting it. That goes for t-shirts, posters, coffee-mugs etc.

In history books, movies about the time etc. it can be used. Unless you try to tell lies or to say that the nazis were actually cool. That would be "Volksverhetzung" and get you in front of a court quickly.