A question regarding swastikas

[blitzkrieg80]

next the symbol itself will be considered a "hate" crime, since normal crimes aren't illegal enough. now if only we had a prison designed for pictures and ideas... maybe we should just start destroying all evidence of it and making it manditory to visit Clockword Orange centers to have regular check-ups on our thoughts: it won't reduce hate or violence, but we can feel righteous and moral

maybe Russia should have 'looking like a gnarled gnome' banned, since Stalin gave that image such a horrible reputation poor gnarled gnome people everywhere get a bad rap because of the coincidence of looking like him... poor Dennis Kucinich

[khelvan]

My attitude is this, and what I shared with the team when I was an active member:

EB is not trying to make a political statement, or thumb its collective nose at the establishment. EB is simply making a mod for our, and everyone's, enjoyment.

Things that are offensive, for whatever reason, will either not be included or be an optional inclusion. It really is that simple. Many different justifications may be used for their inclusion, and many invalid assumptions about what kind of statement we make when we don't include them might be found, but in the end it really is simple.

If people will be greatly offended by it, regardless of why, it either isn't included or is optional.

Any further philosophical or sociological discussion is just that, discussion for the sake of discussion and is outside the scope of what EB is.

[artavazd]

Mouzafphaerre are you Georgian?



I could just see it. 100 years from now the German people are STILL going to be reminded every day how "bad" their great grand fathers were. Mind you the Germans have paid their depts, and this force of guilt on them should stop.


A nation whose people have faced a genocide such as Israel does not recognize the Armenian genocide, practices a similar one with the Palestinians, and lobbies in Washington DC for her ally Turkey to not get the Armenian genoicde passed in congress. but at the same time it is illigal to debate ANY aspect of the Holocaust. Its intresting on how some people go to jail for their thoughts, and some people get away with murder.



Swastika is older then Hitler and the Third Riech if it is historicaly accurate (which it is) to have this indo-european life cycle in the game then it should be in the game.

[Watchman]

I've actually gotten the impression the Germans themselves do most of the flagellation on the topic. Can't blame them for having a sort of collective bad conscience about it, but it gets downright embarassing at times. "Lay it off man - that was your grandparents, not you" kind of thing, if you know what I mean.

Then again, we were sort of allied to them at the time.

[artavazd]

I've actually gotten the impression the Germans themselves do most of the flagellation on the topic. Can't blame them for having a sort of collective bad conscience about it, but it gets downright embarassing at times. "Lay it off man - that was your grandparents, not you" kind of thing, if you know what I mean.

Then again, we were sort of allied to them at the time.

it is the policies, and the education system that breeds guilt in the people. We have a saying in Armenian, I think I've heard it in English as well.

THE FISH STINKS FROM THE HEAD

[Anastasios Helios]

First of all...the Führer was a git.

The Nazis used the swastika because they believed it to be a long lost link with their supposed 'Aryan' (forgive me for the use of this word) brothers in northern India. The swastika was not only used by Indo-European cultures, evidence of swastikas have been found in the old Meso-American civilizations, East Asia, and G-d knows where. Personally, I am not against the use of the swastika on the game...it is a bad symbol only when people make it bad. I wish that people would stop trying to be politically correct all of the time and don't be afraid of their history. I live in Mississippi and I hardly care if rednecks want to fly Confederate flags in their yard...it doesn't bother me to see people celebrating their heritage. If the old Germanic cultures used it in their art...then I wanna see some german clubmen with swastikas on their shields beating the shit out of Roman legionnaires.

[Thaatu]

Then again, we were sort of allied to them at the time.

And still managed to maintain a moral high ground. Damn we're good.

...well okay, we lost the moral high ground with the alliance for some eyes, but it doesn't matter when switched to kickass gear.

[The_Mark]

Don't forget, after we beat the Ruskies off we beat the Gerries out of Finland as well. In essence, we fought bought the Allies and the Axis in WW2 and still survived with one of the three unoccupied capitals (the other two being London and Moscow) amongst the war-faring countries of Europe: Helsinki!

Yes, we're that good.

[Watchman]

I believe the applicable term is "rats abandoning a sinking ship" mind you.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Mouzafphaerre are you Georgian?

Nope, Turkish with no extra ethnic attributes AFAIK, except one of my great-grandmothers being probably Circassian, but with roots in modern day Armenia and Azerbaijan (Karabağ, Erivan, Sofyan) 9 generations back.

A nation whose people have faced a genocide such as Israel does not recognize the Armenian genocide, practices a similar one with the Palestinians, and lobbies in Washington DC for her ally Turkey to not get the Armenian genoicde passed in congress. but at the same time it is illigal to debate ANY aspect of the Holocaust. Its intresting on how some people go to jail for their thoughts, and some people get away with murder.

Dirty politics all around the world. The Holocaust has been used as propaganda material to firmly establish the Jewish state in ME. (Just in case, I'm not a Holocaust denier, and thank God I'm devoid and sick of all kinds of nationalism and counter-nationalism.) Armenian genocide, OTOH, is often used against Turkey as political blackmailing material but never fully recognized just to keep it hot when need be, and easily play with the pseudo-fascist Turkish state.

THE FISH STINKS FROM THE HEAD

It exists in exact translation ("Balık baştan kokar.") and meaning in Turkish.
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[artavazd]

WOW first time I have talked with a Turk as two decent human beings should. I agree with you on all the points you made. My fathers side is from Karin ( Erzerum) and my mothers side is from Van. Take care friend

[Kurulham]

Personally, I'm glad they weren't included, and if they were and a patch were provided to remove them I'd make use of it. This isn't because I'm unaware of the ancient and noble heritage of the swastika but because of the fact that, despite all the study in the world, my knee-jerk, split-second reaction when I see the symbol, right-handed or left-handed, is "ZOMG NAZIS". It would be very distracting.

Makes it rather interesting being over here in Japan as the right-handed swastika, termed manji, is the universal sign on maps for "Buddhist site of interest", much as the torii gate for a Shinto site or a cross for a church in the West. You go looking for the Kamakura Daibutsu and suddenly your brain goes ZOMG NAZIS at you. Odd.

[Mouzafphaerre]

WOW first time I have talked with a Turk as two decent human beings should. I agree with you on all the points you made. My fathers side is from Karin ( Erzerum) and my mothers side is from Van. Take care friend

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