Hapsburgs

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Hey,


Did the Hapsburgs died out with Charles II? I sent a e-mail to my History teacher (look below):

I enjoyed World History today(10-11AM). But Intersting note I must make. From what I know and what I am reading (Leopold I of Austria,1640-1705 and some Wikipedia stuff), The Hapsburgs did not die out entirely. I know you was saying Just the Spanish Hapsburg disappaed after Charles II died, which is true. It lead to the War of Spanish Sucession ( Our Books cover it I see), Which the Austrian Hapsburgs, under command of Holy Roman Emperor Leopold I (who even went to Spain before he became HRE, and saw Charles II, but I will re-read) went to War with France(Louis XIV, he in our book), The German States and Spain with the Help of England and the Netherlands. Austrian Hapsburgs, from my understanding, lasted until the ending of Austria-Hungary in World War 1.



Just a friendly bit of Information. Just thought you would enjoy it :-).

He responded to me:

That's very true, Mike. But as a dynasty family from all of Europe, it ended with Charles.
Great job finding out info......i love that!!!

I didn't think it ended with him, but mabye I am wrong.

[The Wizard]

O_o

The Habsburgs are still alive and kicking. The son of the last emperor and king of Austria-Hungary is the current head of the family.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

O_o

The Habsburgs are still alive and kicking. The son of the last emperor and king of Austria-Hungary is the current head of the family.

Really..... Intersting indeed. Must research it later today. THanks Baba

[spmetla]

Yeah, Otto von Habsburg is still around. He had to renounce his claims to Austrian lands in order to be able to enter Austria again. The Spanish Hapsburgs did get booted out awhile ago though and it's still the Bourbon family in charge there.

Interestingly enough, after WWI, Hungary was a 'monarchy' but the guy in charge (forgot his name) didn't allow the Habsburgs to take the throne though he only ruled as regent.

[King Jan III Sobieski]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_von_Habsburg

My history professor met Otto once, I do believe. The man's apparently incredibly well learned, being proficient in several languages. I'd love to meet him...I could finally say I've met a monarch (albeit a deposed one).

Of course, being of both Czech/Slovak and Croat decent...I wholly reject his claim to the titles of King of Bohemia and King of Croatia, Slavonia and Dalmatia.

[Franconicus]

Well, as a matter of fact, Otto is still alive, but the official leader of the house of Habsburg is his son Karl Habsburg-Lothringen.

If you are looking for data, use the name Habsburg instead of Hapsburg. The b is the right spelling, the p is sometimes used in English.

[KrooK]

Austrian Habsburgs live to this day.
Son of Kaiser became Pole and he was loyal citizen of Poland.

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
You may have a chance to meet the recent head of the Ottoman dynasty, Osman IV Ertuğrul (my partial namesake), if you are living or doing business in New York. Parisiéns are more likely to encounter the would-be Kajar shah of Iran.
.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

.
You may have a chance to meet the recent head of the Ottoman dynasty, Osman III Ertuğrul (my partial namesake), if you are living or doing business in New York. Parisiéns are more likely to encounter the would-be Kajar shah of Iran.
.

Intersting Mouza . I don't live in New York Though

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
You may have a chance to meet the recent head of the Ottoman dynasty, Osman IV Ertuğrul (my partial namesake), if you are living or doing business in New York. Parisiéns are more likely to encounter the would-be Kajar shah of Iran.
.

.
My apologies. Corrected a major error: He would be Osman IV. #III reigned for a brief time at the end of his life in the 18th century.
.

[lars573]

Hey,


Did the Hapsburgs died out with Charles II?

Yes and no. Yes the Spainish Hapsburgs died out with Charles II. But the Austrian Hapsburgs live on to this day.

You see it goes back to Charles the I/V (I of Spain and V of the HRE). He inherited a large and sprawling domain united in the fact that he was their soveregin. You might remember him from the loading quote in M2TW.

"I speak Spanish to God, Italian to women, French to men, and German to my horse" (Je parle espagnol à Dieu, italien aux femmes, français aux hommes, et allemand à mon cheval).

Oddly that quote relates to a language used in one the territories he ruled over.

Here is a map of his domains.


Now in 1556 (which is what the map shows). Charles retired, abdicated technically, but retirement was his aim. He split his inheritance between his son Philip and his younger brother Ferdinand. Philip was given the lions share. He became king of Spain and it's overseas empire. He was also given the kingships of Sardinia, Naples, and Sicily. Philip was also give the rule of the low countries (modern Belgium, Netherlands and Luxemburg), the dutchy of Milan. And lastly the Franche Comte (free county), the HRE bit of the dutcy of Burgundy. Ferdinand was given the kindships of Bohemia and Hungary, Austria, and the Imperial title. This split the dynasty.

Also for fun here is a protrait of Charles II of Spain.

Notice they don't show him standing. As he was incapable of that, or chewing (his jaw was so defromed and his tongue so large it made him barely able to speak), or reading (he was so frail they feared "over taxing" him), or bathing himself (again frailty), or using the toilet, also developmentally delayed. He was last Spainish Habsburg not because of all those faults but because he was sterile. And he's a prime example of why you shouldn't marry your niece, for 5 generations in a row.

[Husar]

I also read some account from a Turk in a history book from school some years ago. It was written around the time of the siege of Vienna and the guy was rambling about how ugly and inbred the Habsburgs were it was quite funny.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Leopold I. They said he was short and sickly, he intheiritd the hapsburg lip to a point where, it was really odd. They said he died from a stroke when he was 65. Kinda old for that time span I guess

[lars573]

Yeah they did have a big problem of "keeping it in the family", so their wouldn't be competing claims for their lands and titles. And predictably it bit them in the arse more than once.

[nokhor]

the obverse of someone like charlie deuce of spain, who was basically a carbon dioxide emitter, when it comes to inbreeding is the cleopatra of caesar and anthony. she came from several centuries of brother/sister and various other incestual ancestors yet she spoke several languages, successfully courted and won over two of the three most important males of her era, was recognized by even her detractors for her cognitive abilites and was one of the big movers and shakers of that time period.

[lars573]

True, but the Ptolemies did it the Egyptian way. That is very rarely would those sibling marriages be siblings through both mother and father. They'd be half siblings. The Hapsburgs would have been doing it through full blooded relations. And another thing about imbreeding is that practicing it doesn't gaurentee defective offspring. It just severly inflates the possibility of these defects occuring.

[nokhor]

True, but the Ptolemies did it the Egyptian way. That is very rarely would those sibling marriages be siblings through both mother and father. They'd be half siblings. The Hapsburgs would have been doing it through full blooded relations.

so are you saying that a uncle/niece hapsburg offspring would have a greater chance to be genetically similar than a halfbrother/half sister ptolemid?

[lars573]

Some what. Although I'm not comepletely versed on the subject. But I was always told by my mom (who has a similar sort of interest in these things as I do) that second cousins breeding is the line between inbred and not. However one thing to remember is that Egyptian Pharaoh's (including the Ptolemies) had polygamy working for them. Not just because of potential half-sibling mates but also volume of offspring from one monarch. As inbreeding just increases greatly the chances of recessive traits popping up and causing physically/mentally disabled and/or infertile offspring. These "unfit" children probably won't survive and will take their bad ressive traits out of the gene pool (especially if their infertile). But even if a Pharaoh has really bad luck of the genetic draw and 75% of his children were struck with disabilities and were "unfit". It's 75% of maybe 2 dozen (as a conservative estimate) kids. Leaving 8-10 perfectly healthy normal kids.

Where as in Catholic renaissance europe royal inbreeding is really playing with fire. Now there was a taboo against brother-sister unions but not as much against first cousins and aunt/uncle-nephew/niece unions. Even though these unions carried as much risk of "unfit" offspring occuring. Where on average one royal woman will get pregnant ~12 times over her life time. And not all will result in live births, and not all the live births will reach adulthood. So this means that in one of the incestious royal marriages the chances of enough volume of offspring to absorb the bad defects isn't really possible.