The Amazing Epeirote Debt Machine, or: "Help?"

[Sarkiss]

dont disband eles, use them! they'll allow to take a settlement the same turn and while Phyrros is alive you should overrun all of Greece with their help. Phyrros + eles an explosive combo. i took all of Greece with Phyrros still in charge.
it is cheaper to maintain them than recruit a new. and they will get some experience in the meantime too. just dont (even if you can afford) retrain them until you got all of Greece.
disband fleet and withraw form Taras destroying everything and putting tax on VH so it can rebel. it will let Rome grow stronger in Italy while you expand in Greece and Anatolia and will assure an eventual challenging encounter with Rome.

[Bootsiuv]

Pyrrhos + eles = expensive combo....it really depends on if you feel like blitzing Hellas or taking a little more time to consolidate. If they sit around for one turn, they're an enormous waste of resources. Use them every turn you can if you plan on keeping them, because every turn they sit they're a 2000 mnai (IIRC) expense for absolutely no point.

My point is don't let them sit on garrison duty for the 3 or 4 turns many players take to consolidate after annexing a territory. Use them or lose them.

Fleets are similiar, but they're a 500 mnai expense, and I can't bring myself to desert FM's on islands, or, in this case, across a sea. It really depends on your personal play style, but you could probably abandon Taras, and then disband all fleets to save even more money. Alternatively, you could just disband the fleets and hope the Taras garrison will hold out. The choice is yours, and it depends on how much money you want to make, and how comfortable you are fighting two wars in two different theaters.

[Landwalker]

Some interesting ideas. A couple of questions:

1) FMs?

2) Would you say it is more advisable to launch straight into the Macedons and try to tear them down as quickly as possible, or to instead concentrate on the northern rebel settlements? The Macedons start out with a huge army, but it's in Attica and those environs rather than in northern Macedonia--thus, I see a possibility of quickly knocking over a couple of Macedonian cities in the north before the larger military components come in (if they come at all), but I'm also concerned that when they come, I'll have a war-weary army and no money to replenish or reinforce it. On the other hand, I'm concerned about allowing Macedonia to increase its strength early on, and I don't know if seizing northern Eleutheroi provinces will be sufficient to counteract it.

Cheers.

[paullus]

1) Family Members

2) That doesn't sound like the sort of worrying Pyrrhos would do. While he ended up turning south and attacking Sparta, its equally plausible to imagine him seizing hold of Makedonia and eagerly seeking battle in command of an over-extended, weary army against the returning forces of Antigonos. Point is: Pyrrhos didn't have a large army because it was financially responsible in light of what Epeiros could support, he had a large army because he intended to be king of all Hellas.

[Landwalker]

2) That doesn't sound like the sort of worrying Pyrrhos would do. While he ended up turning south and attacking Sparta, its equally plausible to imagine him seizing hold of Makedonia and eagerly seeking battle in command of an over-extended, weary army against the returning forces of Antigonos. Point is: Pyrrhos didn't have a large army because it was financially responsible in light of what Epeiros could support, he had a large army because he intended to be king of all Hellas.

An excellent point. I just laid waste to Pella right off the bat (as tempting as it is to sack the royal tombs for 12,500 minae, I can't bring myself to do it), and now it's time to march south. Antigonos, here I come!

P.S. Those two-hit point elephants are killing me... At least it's an upkeep burden off my back every time a stray sling bullet takes them out.

[CountArach]

My first ever Epirote campaign (Wayback in 0.7.4 with the Reinforcement CTD) saw me abandoning Italy in favour of returning home. You can quickly seize all the Makedonian homelands, as well as Athens. If you still have enough of an army left, you could then go down further south. The key to remember is that you are facing two powers with not much more than you in Greece, and as such every city you take is a major shift in the power balance.

Remember to leave Taras with a bare bones garrison and do not build anything there first turn. It will jsut be taken by the Romani very quickly. Instead, concentrate on your infrastructe in your homeland on your first turn.

[konny]

If your army composition is the same as in EB0.8: disband the elephants (you can build rams for nothing) and all but one ship. These toys are responsible for about 1/2 your debt. Spend all your money in the first turn for something usefull (e.g. additional garrisons for Epiros).

Forgett about Hellas and Makedonia: The Celts had already plundered it a few years ago, there is not much money in it. Pack your army on your last ship and make it to Italy. There, overrun the Romans. Epiros might or might not be attacked by the Maks the same time, but usualy they are to occupied with fighting KH for a couple of turns.

Make sure your last ship always ends its turn in a port of yours that it can not be attacked by pirates. You'll need it later and you'll don't have the money to build a new one.

Speed is everything: The Roman army is weak but will grow stronger every turn. Also, you are still sliding into the red as long as you don't have Capua and Rome. Once you have solved the Italian problem you should take every man left and make your glourious return to Greece. With Italy under your controll you should now have the money to pay for your army.

[skuzzy]

Compared to 0.81 Epeirote's debts are much more difficult to overcome. This is also my first campaign. I sacked Pella the first turn. Threw 2 of my 3 sets of ships into whatever ship I came across to remove myself from the naval scene and also spare costs of maintanence. Despite wanting to disband the elephants I just couldn't because they're terrorizing machines and I love them. After Pella you can either try to take Antiganos head on in Demetrias or you can use your remaining ship to land near Korinthos and block your nrothern cities with poorly garrisoned forts long enough for you to sack Corinth. By this time your army should start withering and your debts lessening but you will probably already be about 10-15k in the hole. If you want to risk it or if the AI hasn't sieged either of the forts you could break peace with KH and should be fairly simple to take Sparta. Keeping your army here will be pretty secure from Antiganos if you have built a fort on the land bridge to Corinth. Pretty much that is as far as I've gotten but I can say that Epeiros is seemingly much more difficult than before and I don't know if I will be able to overcome the debt due to not being able to construct a mine in Pella as by the end of the first turn you're already instantly in debt.

[Forgus]

Right now I'm playing Epeiros. I disbanded nothing but until I managed to crush Macedon I was in -65000 Mnai, and got atacked by KH with strong armies. My armies got a pounding I lost Euboia and Korinthos but KH never really recovered her losses (neither could I being in deficit, hut by this time my armies were so worn out that i made 6000 profit per turn. Basicly I broke even 3 years later. These years we struggled with KH like two dying men clutching each others throat. I recovered first, and few retrained taxeis deuteroi broke the stalemate.

Later the drama continued, previously Taras was attacked by Rome by half tacks I crushed though at times I thought I won't make it. This time it was different, Scipio showed up with 2 full stacks some 4 thousand men against my 1400. I gathered my veteran units, silver chevron phalangites and slingers with a family member (FM for noobs ) but the ships were sunk by roman and later Eleutheroi ships. Taras eventually fell I lost most of my army and Magna Graecia. But I'll be back.

I admit I fully partial to my baby (it is fun to see your own skins running around) but it's been my most challanging and fun campaign I had so far in any computer game.

[Bootsiuv]

Yes, large debts can be incurred, but they can also be overcome. I was 27000 in debt in my Sabyn campaign. It is .81, as I don't have 1.0 until tommorrow, so I can't comment on that yet, but I think they'll be my first campaign.

Anyways, after I took Axum, Meroe, and Ubar, I've finally gone into the black again....so just because your extremely in debt doesn't mean you can't come back.

Just make sure you play out every single battle, and use wise tactics, maintain formations, etc. to minimize losses, because you won't have reinforcements for some years.

BTW, speaking of maintaining formations....the left-alt key is critical when moving your forces. Your men will maintain their formation while moving. Be paitient, and have your men walk, don't run unless it's absolutely necessary. Tired men don't fight as well as fresh ones.