The Amazing Epeirote Debt Machine, or: "Help?"

[konny]

In other news, Caius Aurelius Cotta has finally laid siege to Taras. Hopefully he'll assault it, because I can't fight him off with a sally.

Oh yes, that is something you should take into account: you cannot hold Taras unless you get the royal army to Italy. You are able to repulse an assult or two, but you are not able to replace your casulties, what means in the long term you will simply not have enough men to repulse the next wave of Romans. There is a little chance that meanwhile Roma catches the Bononia Virus and send every man North to be butchered by naked fanatics, simply ignoring your little fortress. But that's rare.

So, if you are planning a campaign in Hellas you should completly abandon Taras, destroying every happiness building and set taxes to very high. That will spawn a rebell army there what will hold off the Romans for a while.

[Archibald]

Not that I know of. Hypaspistai are limited to Makedon and AS, while Pheraspidai are limited to those plus Baktria.
You can check it out yourself in the documentation inside your EB folder; there is a subfolder with unit cards.

But the EB site shows different :https://www.europabarbarorum.com/fac...ros_units.html
So what shows real information about units? I'm a bit confused now

[Ludens]

But the EB site shows different :https://www.europabarbarorum.com/fac...ros_units.html
So what shows real information about units? I'm a bit confused now

They may not be available in the Epeirote starting provinces: Pezhetairoi weren't either in the last build. Try if you can get them in Pella.

[keravnos]

If they are not available in the starting provinces, aka, in Ambrakia, then that is clearly a mistake on our part.

@Sakkura, Epeiros can now recruit Hypaspistai and Pheraspides.

[Kampfkrebs]

Pezhetairoi ARE availible in ambrakia.

[keravnos]

Yes, but are Hypaspistai and Pheraspidai?

[Kampfkrebs]

Ask me later this day, havent build the barraks so high there cause I am more than confident with my Hoplites, they laughter even Milites Extraordinarii

But I think they are also recruitable there, rightclicked on the barracks and they where there in the description, imo.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Ask me later this day, havent build the barraks so high there cause I am more than confident with my Hoplites, they laughter even Milites Extraordinarii

Milites Extraordinarii ?!?!

[Tellos Athenaios]

Predites, I s'ppose.

[Kampfkrebs]

These overdressed samnites. "Heavy infantry of the italic allies" or something like this.
Yes I suck at Latin

[Landwalker]

Oh yes, that is something you should take into account: you cannot hold Taras unless you get the royal army to Italy. You are able to repulse an assult or two, but you are not able to replace your casulties, what means in the long term you will simply not have enough men to repulse the next wave of Romans. There is a little chance that meanwhile Roma catches the Bononia Virus and send every man North to be butchered by naked fanatics, simply ignoring your little fortress. But that's rare.

So, if you are planning a campaign in Hellas you should completly abandon Taras, destroying every happiness building and set taxes to very high. That will spawn a rebell army there what will hold off the Romans for a while.

Yes, Taras has fallen. Although Rome certainly paid for it (over a thousand casualties all told), I had been hoping to try to sneakily gift Taras to the Aegui during a lull in the siege. Unfortunately, there wasn't one--siege, assault, siege, assault, etc.

The battle for Corinth remix has been fought, and successfully. Chalkis has been captured, but on the same turn those treacherous Greeks followed me in and have been besieging it (including one failed assault). Since the besieging army this second time is relatively small, it's time to sally out, crush them, and then march on Athens. Corinth is under siege, but I have no hope of saving it at the moment. I've literally pulled every single unit (generals, skeleton garrisons, etc.) out of all my other holdings to come reinforce my rapidly deteriorating royal army. The next couple of years will determine whether or not Epeiros' starting forces are truly enough to conquer all of Hellas, because that's all I've been able to operate with...



According to the unit cards, Pezhetairoi are only available in Pella and Demetrias (as far as that region is concerned), as are Pheraspides. Hypaspistai, however, are available in both of Epeiros' starting regions on the Adriatic (Epidamnus and Ambrakia, I think).

Cheers.

[NightStar]

@Landwalker

This is why I start campaigns and never able to see them through, this first part is exciting!!! You are not sure if you are going to win!!! If you succeed in conquering the KH and keeping your holdings then the main excitement of the campaign is over

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Predites, I s'ppose.

Pedites (means infantry I suppose, like Equites means cavalry?)...

[Landwalker]

@Landwalker

This is why I start campaigns and never able to see them through, this first part is exciting!!! You are not sure if you are going to win!!! If you succeed in conquering the KH and keeping your holdings then the main excitement of the campaign is over

I'm not going to lie, this is the most intense campaign I've played, ever. With only my starting armies and the two troops I was able to recruit with my starting cash (not counting a Phalangitai Deuteroi unit in Taras to hold off Rome), I've been forced to blitzkrieg through Macedonia and Hellas. The battle for Corinth was literally a fight that could decide the campaign, and I have the feeling that a couple more of those are awaiting me as my tattered, horribly deteriorated army makes the final push against Athens and the Peloponnese. I have five towns with no garrisons in them because I need every last unit against the Hellenes. I had to relieve Pyrrhus as commander of the army, because he's been campaigning nonstop so long his troops are "Starving" (-3 Morale for all troops, -1 Bodyguard valor, etc.), so this final stage is in the hands of his heir, Ptolemaios Aiakides, and Pyrrhus has been pulled back to Demetrias to try to recover.

Cheers.

[keravnos]

@ Landwalker, now you see why Pyrrhos had to go campaigning all around Greece. He had to find money to pay his troops.

[Landwalker]

@ Landwalker, now you see why Pyrrhos had to go campaigning all around Greece. He had to find money to pay his troops.

Or he had to get his troops killed to make any money.

Cheers.

[Sakkura]

If they are not available in the starting provinces, aka, in Ambrakia, then that is clearly a mistake on our part.

@Sakkura, Epeiros can now recruit Hypaspistai and Pheraspides.

Bah, nuts to me for trusting the Arkatreides cards

[Landwalker]

Well, I'm pleased to note that after a long struggle and bleak days, in the Spring of 297 BC, Epeiros is finally out of debt, after capturing Athenai to compensate for the near-simultaneous loss of Korinthos. Korinthos is now under siege by the remnants of the army, and within two years I expect to have erased the blight of Koinon Hellenon from mainland Hellas, relegating them to Rhodes or extinction. With the income from conquering most of Hellas and the loss of most of my Elephantoi Indikoi (that unit is down from 36 to 16 soldiers, rendering the upkeep "only" 1,666 mnai, rather than the 3,400-odd mnai I had been paying), I'll finally be able to begin recruiting reinforcements (Hoplitai from Demetrias, thanks to the prebuilt Foreign Legion building) and consolidating my government's hold on the newly conquered territories.

Now I just have to keep my army alive long enough to fight off the eventual relief army coming from Sparta, and all will be as it should.

Cheers.

Edit: In a truly comical twist, the Hellenes demanded I become their protectorate...

[Bootsiuv]

@Landwalker

This is why I start campaigns and never able to see them through, this first part is exciting!!! You are not sure if you are going to win!!! If you succeed in conquering the KH and keeping your holdings then the main excitement of the campaign is over

That simply isn't true....just because you have hellas doesn't mean the rest of the successors are dead, or Rome for that matter. Still lots of exciting moments left for the KH/Epeirote/Mak player after they take Hellas.

[Sakkura]

That simply isn't true....just because you have hellas doesn't mean the rest of the successors are dead, or Rome for that matter. Still lots of exciting moments left for the KH/Epeirote/Mak player after they take Hellas.

Yeah, but you rarely get that feeling of importance that every single battle has. With 15 provinces losing one battle is bad. With 3 it is a disaster. Which is why I like the early game a bit more than the later periods. Less micromanagement as well.

[Bootsiuv]

Fair enough, but personally I think the Mid-game is often the most exciting.

[Landwalker]

After a massive battle for Corinth (again), against a large, predominantly mercenary army of Hellenes, it's on to Sparte for the final blow.

Reaching the southern Peloponnese prompts a question, though. Why is the southern tip divided between Aitolia, Crete, and Silicia?

Cheers.

[Kampfkrebs]

Reaching the southern Peloponnese prompts a question, though. Why is the southern tip divided between Aitolia, Crete, and Silicia?
Cheers.

There is Cape T. the ancient Toys'R'Us (for mercs).
Get a ship, put a FM into that ship and deploy him there, and there you go with a nice big army of everything you can imagine.

[Bootsiuv]

Wow....a new feature of 1.0, yes? I must have missed that one. Sounds friggin awesome though.

*wishes dad wasn't going to a cook out today so he could use his cable connection.*

Oh well, I'll find out tomorrow.

[muzz]

I don't think you should try and hold Taras. I evacuate everyone but the skirmishers, and destroy all the buildings, scuttle the fleet. Build roads and either farms or granaries in the other two provinces, build 4 archers for garrisons and 4 slingers in Ambrakia to send to whatever's left of my army in Demetrius by turn four. After I sack Demetrius on turn two, then I disband the ele's and send a diplomat to make peace with the Macedonians on turn three. Make peace and get trade with as many people as possible. Rome won't make peace till they have Taras. I have only a governor and an archer in all my cities, and send whatever's left of my army to Thermopylae. Usually get to about -30000 mnai before I start to make money. Sometimes, if I have a large enough army, I take Athens by 268BC after they've beat on each other (KH and Mak's). Have to be careful if eleutheroi spawn tho... hope that gives you some ideas.

[Landwalker]

Well, from my present campaign, I've found that disbanding the elephantes and making peace with Macedon is not, necessarily, the way to go. With nothing but the starting units (and not counting those in Taras) and a couple of units built with the initial funds, I was able to capture Pella on turn one, Demetrias on turn two, and then proceed down into southern Greece in short order. Although I'm away from my desktop at the moment, I believe it is around 268-267, I hold all of Hellas south of Epidamnus and Pella with the exception of Thermon, and am finally turning a nice profit. Given the several battles I fought in which the deciding factor was a well-timed Elephant-charge into the rear of the enemy infantry, I can confidently say that disbanding the elephants is certainl *not* the way to go if you plan to blitzkrieg Greece.

If, however, you would rather only blitz Macedonia and then make peace and consolidate, disbanding the elephants is virtually necessary. Still, with the path I took, I never reached -20,000 mnai and am now making about 6,000/turn even with the elephants (which have, in the course of many battles, been reduced to one third of their original number). I did lose Taras, but only after three assaults by the Romans, so I certainly made them pay for it, all the while tempering my debt with Taras' limited income (and, of course, completely sacking the city before the final assault that captured it).

Cheers.

[Michaelis]

Man, I'm still submerged in work - wish I had a little time to try out v 1.0...

Anyway, I've been playing Epeiros for a while now - can't get too deeply into a game because I don't have the headspace for taking care of 50 provinces and 20 armies... So I quit and start over after maybe 100 turns. Played a few openings this way, 0.81 of course, so I don't know how applicable my experiences are to 1.0. With that caveat, here goes:

The best and quickest way to win as Epeiros is to slaughter everyone, of course. I take Pella on turn 1, and immediately transfer my best troops including the elephants to Italy. Depending on the Greek situation, I'll also take Demetrias with whatever forces I've got left in Greece, and always grab a few barbarian provinces too. However, the main thrust is in Italy - I've wiped out the Romans three times in a row by 268 BC, so it's certainly possible with 0.81. That takes care of debt - those Roman cities are BIG, worth lots of money. BTW, I always spend all the initial money on new units.

After that, it's a bit of a walkover, a race to conquer as many provinces as I only can in the shortest possible time. I average 2 and a bit per year, by 250 BC I always have 50 provinces, give or take one or two.

Don't ever disband your starting troops to make money, it's crazy - you'll only have to spend more money to recruit them again later. Use them to grab as many provinces as possible, it always takes care of the income/debt problem really fast.

Two unrelated observations: someone was asking about mining income. To determine mining income, zoom in on a province and count its mines, noting what they mine, too. Copper is worth less than silver/gold. Yes, Pella has a couple of gold mines and makes 2000 per turn right away with a lvl 1 mine.

Second observation: I used to never slaughter cities, because that's killing future tax income. But in my last campaign I made it a rule to slaughter every single conquered city, and you know what? It made the game much more interesting. I actually had to make the towns grow before recruiting any new troops! Granaries became a priority instead of sthg you build because there's nothing else left to build that's not too expensive.

Don't know how it will work out in 1.0 of course, but from now on I'm going the slaughter route in every game. I like the whole city growing process.

BTW, is there a thread somewhere that would list all the keyboard shortcuts for the game? I'm still a newbie at this game, and constantly come across hints that there are many things possible that I'm not even aware of presently...

Looking forward to getting some time off and really getting into an EB game!

[PershsNhpios]

Oblivious to posts other than the first, and to EB 1.0, I account my knowledge of Epeiros in 8.1.

You must take Pella immediately by combing Phyrrus and Ptolemaios, and after doing this, disband your elephants.
Phyrrus and Ptolemaios should stay in Pella with a garrison of about 3 troops.
Disband all but the very bare necessities of your other settlement garrisons.
Then, take Ptolemaios and the remainder of the troops from Pella, and sack Demetrias.
Retreat to Pella.
I then took in succession, using slingers and Hoplitai:
Serdike
Dalminion
Tylis
Byzantion
Demetrias

When I took Demetrias, I did so with a great force, which was then left to create a substantial fort to protect me from the wars of the Koinon Hellenon and Makedonia.
I now had three mining settlements, two large armies, and still an income of five-thousand each turn.

I found Epeiros very inclined to victory from the beginning of my campaign.

In 8.1 my most favoured troops were my "Hapless Hoplitai".

Or Haploi Hoplitai.


Oh, I am sorry I forgot Taras!

I built a stone wall immediately, and recruited many slingers and archers, and in this way kept Romans from even touching the foot of my walls by the number of missiles.
I never needed to transfer any troops.
However, what I did, which in turn destroyed Rome, was plunder Taras, leaving it a shell inside a stone wall, and sell it to the Arverni.
After the Arverni had a large garrison, the town revolted back to me.
So, with my great force of rebels, I left Taras again to the Arverni (Who were quite confused!), sacked Arpi, and gave another settlement to the Gauls.
Thus there was a large migration of Celts in southern Italy, Rome's growth was stunted, and I had no more trans-adriatic warfare to distract me.

[I of the Storm]

The poor AI!

Very interesting reports, sounds like I should give Epeiros a try. Haven't done so yet.