Need help with the KH

[iamroot]

I've just started on a KH campaign on 1.0 and on M/M difficulty. Firstly, I went into debt immediately and had to face a Macedonian full stack at Korinthos. Although I managed to beat them off barely, I've realised that KH troops are rather horrible and expensive, totally not on par with those from Macedon. Could anyone recommend an army I could train which could stand toe-to-toe with the Macedonians. Thanks.

[Bootsiuv]

While I can't speak on 1.0, I am thrilled to hear that the Maks don't automatically go north now.

Great job, team.

As for an army to train....

Iphikratous Hoplitai, Theurophoroi, slingers, and Hippies Thessalonika would likely be your best bet. If you still have the starting unit of Spartans, they're very nice too, as are the KH bodyguard units.

It takes a little while to get these units, so you're at a definite disadvantage until then. Your best bet is Peltastai and Slingers galore, with hoplitai haploi, bodyguards and your starting units of hoplitai in athenai, unless they aren't there anymore (in the 1.0 build I mean).

Prepare for some tough fights against superior troops the first few years....but then the KH can be amongst the wealthiest and most powerful factions in the game.

Good luck, and if you have any more questions (about KH tactics at least, as I don't have 1.0 yet), I'll try and help the best I can.

[BigTex]

The worste problem for the KH, seems to be the 3 starting spartan generals. They all have spartiate hoplitia as bodyguards, but unlike any of the other bodyguards for other factions they have a 800 a turn upkeep. Thats 2,400 mnia of debt you can never get rid of.

Your best bet is to get the spy in to kydonia and open the gates and take it on turn one or 2 with the starting army there. disband all but one ship, and train a spy in athens. Then hope that next turn the makedonains send all of their armies north for a bit.

As for an army. Hoplitai are pretty solid, they can hold their own against pikeman. If you can overwelm and destroy their flank guards with your ekdromoi and theurophoi you can perform an infantry hammer into anvil. Never underestimate the peltastai they can take some pretty nasty damage. Keep them wide on your flanks, outside of the ekdromoi and theurophoi. Once the main lines engage swing them past the flank guards and use them to rain death on their units from behind.

[Bootsiuv]

Peltastai and light hoplites will likely be your best flankers until thuerophoroi and thesallian cavalry become available, by which time you've usually had to fight a few tough battles.

Seek an alliance with Epeiros to secure that front, and just understand that the successor armies are just better, simply put, but your guys are no slouches.

[madmatg]

well now that the KH have some Hellenic Pez they are much better off fighting hte successors than in .81, i dont know how high up hte MIC scale they are, cause im out of town and away from my EB comp for the weekend , but i believe that should make the KH armies much better fighting everyone as the iphikratous hoplitai just dont get the job done IMO. Regular Hoplitai are one of the best units in hte game for middle of the road inf as they have Ex morale, a very good defense(which can be made better by fighting in a long line of units on guard mode), and decent charge. all that for the low low cost of 1374 or somewhere around there these guys will be your best friends as soon as you get the MIC for them. only problem is as mentioned, the cavalry, i havent had a chance to try out hte new cav units but they look like they will at least be able to do something unlike other units hte KH might have COUGHhippeiosCOUGH.

anyways thats just my 2 cents yall have a good one

[hoom]

A curious thing I think has changed somewhat since .81, Peltastai & Classic Hoplites are only about 100 mnai different in price!

I'm coming along ok, though the Macs have managed to show up with some surprisingly well balanced, coordinated & thus dangerous armies

Have had some very good battles because of that

[madmatg]

I cant wait to start my new KH campaign!!!!

[iamroot]

Which unit should I use as the main phalanx? Iphikratous hoplitai or classical hoplitai?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

The worste problem for the KH, seems to be the 3 starting spartan generals. They all have spartiate hoplitia as bodyguards, but unlike any of the other bodyguards for other factions they have a 800 a turn upkeep. Thats 2,400 mnia of debt you can never get rid of.

Very interesting point Tex. I don't think any of us ever noticed that. Hmmmm. On the other hand, it might be a nice balancing tool since too many people have complained that the KH is too strong to start the game vs. Maks.

[Foot]

Very interesting point Tex. I don't think any of us ever noticed that. Hmmmm. On the other hand, it might be a nice balancing tool since too many people have complained that the KH is too strong to start the game vs. Maks.

We would either have to make a new edu entry for a spartan unit with 0 upkeep (that would only appear ingame for those three generals + the carthage 1), remove them as bodyguards, make a script to give reparations, or leave as is. Not sure which is best.

Foot

[Lusitani]

I started a KH campaign last night (M for battles VH for campaign) and had no problems in fighting the Makedonians ....so far anyway, conquered Corinth and defended Athens sucessfully a few times. They seem to be more interested in Epeiros...so lets see how that goes . :)

[madmatg]

@iamroot - if you plan on leaving your general close to the main line use iphikratous as their morale is a bit low but if you want units to hold the line as you flank with your gen use classical in guard mode, as they will hang around a long time with their high defense and morale

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

IMHO KH was far worse in 0.81. Now they have a phalanx unit capable of standing toe to toe with the Maks.

[Watchman]

We would either have to make a new edu entry for a spartan unit with 0 upkeep (that would only appear ingame for those three generals + the carthage 1), remove them as bodyguards, make a script to give reparations, or leave as is. Not sure which is best.

Why not just use the otherwise standard KH Epikletoi bodyguards ? In practical terms they're almost identical anyway (the stat differences are fairly nominal), and I think they can be handwaved through easily enough in the interests of consistency as a Spartan conceptual equivalent. Maybe with a bonus chevron to account for the "root stock" hoplites these particular Epikletoi were picked from being a tad tougher customers than the rank-and-file "classical" Hoplitai and the rest of the Spartan peculiarities inasmuch as they can be regarded as relevant ?

[antisocialmunky]

The early years were tough in my KH campaign, I ended up at about -5000 before I took Korinth, Krete, and the Thessylian Mak City. The Maks seem to wander off to attack the Epeirotes which is fairly lucky I guess since I couldn't build anything for two years. After that though, I haven't found the KH particularly challenging since you get pretty much nigh-immortal generals along with a great set of awesome looking and powerful infantry units.

[Bootsiuv]

We would either have to make a new edu entry for a spartan unit with 0 upkeep (that would only appear ingame for those three generals + the carthage 1), remove them as bodyguards, make a script to give reparations, or leave as is. Not sure which is best.

Foot

Leave as is....I think it balances the KH's rather strong starting position....I was often able to completely beat Makedon by turn 20 and I hardly broke a sweat...too much money. This helps that IMO.

Oh, and Iphikratous Hoplitai are superior over Hoplitai when holding a line IMO, unless there stats have changed for 1.0, and they're available in the same level of MIC(in Athenai and Korinthos anyways, I know the spartans didn't accept the new tactics, so you can't build them there).