Oversize animations problems..

**satanea juda** · 10-13-2007, 12:58

Has anyone else had problems with oversize animations/skeletons ie; Ogres, trolls ect causing CTD's??, We've used the one from Blue Lotus and most of the time no problems.

it seems random so might not be the animation/skeleton at all, we're just trying to track down the root of our CTD...

**Makanyane** · 10-13-2007, 19:56

Am working on same mod and would like to add some info. In-case it rings any bells with anybody.

Unit in question is a troll which thinks its an elephant (elephant class mount type with invisible riders). Some recent attempts at EDU changes - from stat_pri to stat_sec attack haven't helped problem.

I can't spot pattern to CTD, has happened a few times to me on deployment stage, but it can also crash once battle has commenced, for me its always been relatively early, if they get as far as reaching enemy and getting into battle it seems stable.

I have added unique sounds for them - which I'm probably about to go and try undoing!

As well as the occasional random CTD with this unit in battle, it also has little problem when it ends up as the captains' unit in battle. Have now got an (again occasional) problem with bits of captains texture being projected in a sheet protruding from unit.

**Aradan** · 10-13-2007, 20:26

I *believe* it must be the sounds. They come into play before the actual battle starts and if you say you get the CTD during deployment phase, it must be it.

We had problems with our Mumakil and it was indeed the animations, but we could easily figure that out.

**Makanyane** · 10-14-2007, 10:33

still not entirely sure if problem is to do with sounds or at least entirely to do with, we did have a rather large sound file (that was also 44hz in) which I'm taking out, problem is without being able to make it crash consistently its hard to know when its fixed!

Does anyone know if there are max limits to sound file sizes, and what effects the various audio options / computer set ups might have on that, i was on milesfast 2d sound with the 44hz file so that should theoretically have been ok apart from the size....?

Also to explain a bit more about the ogre/elephant as captain problem:

finally got a viewpoint which shows what it seems to be trying to do - that's what should be the rebel captain model appearing somewhat enlarged, centred over the ogre unit which was bodyguard unit in custom battle selection.
Though it isn't doing that consistently either, and that isn't / wasn't the sole cause of initial CTD either as CTD was occuring sometimes when there is proper generals bodyguard unit separately in battle...

...I actually hate elephants!

**wlesmana** · 10-14-2007, 12:26

Never have a secondary attack on an elephant unit where the riders cannot be positioned correctly.

Riders, like those on horses and camels, require a specific bone or something in the skeleton that cannot be replicated in other skeletons. For instance, if you used the dogs as a mount, the riders would not appear because it doesn't have that "thing". Let's call that the "mount bone" even though it may not be it. Only horse, camel and elephant skeleton has a mount bone, from which the position of the rider(s) is derived.

If it doesn't have a mount bone, the riders are "packed away" somewhere, possibly in the same pocket universe as the primary/secondary weapons and the phalanx spear. If you have a secondary attack on an elephant like this, the game will CTD the moment the rider hits attacking range because it'd get confused, since it's in the pocket universe.

The glitch that would show the captain/general is also evident in all the non-elephant-skeleton elephant units. Sometimes they appear, sometimes they don't.

If you really want the glitch to not appear, or if you want to have riders and secondary attacks on the elephant unit, you must instead make the unit from an elephant skeleton and make all new animations for it.

**Makanyane** · 10-14-2007, 12:43

Ah that's making some more sense, have been looking at other mods with ele/trolls and the pri/sec setup is different between them, but I've not been able to tell what the underlying skeleton/animation is, that probably explains the difference.

I did start originally with only primary weapon assigned, trouble was with that game still decides because its 'an elephant' that it can assault gates and wooden walls, but without the secondary attack it doesn't do any damage. I don't suppose you know any way round that?

though it sounds like we need to re-think the unit a bit anyway

**wlesmana** · 10-14-2007, 12:57

If it is flagged an elephant then it will always be able to attack gates and wooden walls. This is hard-coded. If you'd like rebalance it, then make the gates much, much stronger and the siege engines also, so it would take a long time for elephant types to break through.

Sorry but I was mistaken about my previous statement. What I mean was the elephant can only have secondary attack and NOT primary. Primary must be kept empty otherwise it would CTD once it comes in range.

**Dol Guldur** · 10-14-2007, 14:31

Make sure the DM mass is not too high either, this caused our mumakils to crash randomly in battle in the early days.

Regarding sounds - some will cause CTDs. 16 bit audo size, 22 kHz sample rate, mono (1 channel), and 352 kbps is our current mumakil setting.

As I said in my PM, feel free to use our troll as an example.

Always make sure you have at least 2 riders too or it will ctd at start of battle (after doing weird things with the camera).

I'm afraid I have not had time to look at your files yet :(

**Monkwarrior** · 10-16-2007, 18:17

Sorry if my problems are different from yours, but after reading your posts I feel that all the possibilities are "possible"

Sounds: we (at ITW) have sometimes random CTDs, that don't seem to have origin in the properties of the files but in the overlapping of too many files, for example in charge. If you are interested I can ask to our expert in sounds.

Animations of riders: we had similar problems with chariots, as the second rider (general) had animations different from those of the first one. Did you find any correlation between having the "big unit" with or without a general?

**Makanyane** · 10-16-2007, 18:36

Originally Posted by Monkwarrior

Sounds: we (at ITW) have sometimes random CTDs, that don't seem to have origin in the properties of the files but in the overlapping of too many files, for example in charge. If you are interested I can ask to our expert in sounds.

I'm not sure if it applies in this case but it would be interesting for every one to know about if you could get some information on that. I'm not sure yet what you mean, is it too many different text files calling the same sound.mp3, or one text file referring to too many different places/paths for the sound files?

Animations of riders: we had similar problems with chariots, as the second rider (general) had animations different from those of the first one. Did you find any correlation between having the "big unit" with or without a general?

We certainly had more problems when it acquired a general (captain) through being the lead unit in battle. I've not tried deliberately making it a bodyguard unit. We are in situation that wlesmana explained, as the skeleton doesn't have a bone for the riders to relate to, they are off somewhere in limbo so there animation shouldn't really be coming in to play.

Having changed sound files back to using RTW originals for now, removing primary attack figures and generally fiddling stats around it seems to be behaving itself for now. Then again we didn't realise we had a problem with it for a long while...