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Thread: Strong position, where to next?

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  1. #1
    Reclusive Academic Member General-Winter's Avatar
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    Default Strong position, where to next?

    I've been playing on Expert games for a while now, it's been on and off ad more than once i've had to restart, but I think i've made it past the hardest stage of the game.

    This particular German campaign is on Expert and Early stage with Glorious Acheivements, on the XL MOD. it is now 1227.

    After nearly 150 years of blood sweat and toil, the Holy Roman Empire is secure and dominates central Europe.

    However, this is the first time I have gotten this far in Medieval TW, every other time i've either gotten smashed and too bloodied early on or had so many things stacked against me (For example in one of my more memorable games Pope Antonio IV Excomm. me and this brought down all of Europe upon my head. After the first turn of attacks I had lost three provinces and two more had a skeleton garrison left. Spies reported a Spanish Crusade coming my way )

    Anyways, the Empire now stretches from Norway to Naples and Normandy to Greater Poland. I have completed the Holy Roman Empire and Drang Nach Osten.
    Rome and Livonia are my most fortified Strongholds, Livonia from the army for Drang Nach Osten, Rome party from local troops and the remnants of the Italian campaign.

    The Political Situation.
    The Poles, Danes, Genoese, Venicians, and Aragonese have all been destroyed (I destroyed the entire list except for the Aragonese.) The Hungarians are rather peculiar. After an admirable tussle with the Byzantines I offered an alliance and jointly we smashed the Easterners in Hungary. I continued a march of scorched earth all the way to Constantinople, and raised the city to the ground (muhahahahaha). After several decades of relative peace the Hungarians threw EVERYTHING they had at Hungary, I retreated and then decided to let them have it. However I responded by assasinating their general and several spies.

    Ever since the climactic battle of the Somme () the French have been reduced to practically nothing, their armies were broken and the lands ripe, I held off due to excommunication-derived revolts and the French hung on by the skin of their teeth.

    Somehow the English lost everything except for Wales and Wessex; massive rebel armies were holding Mercia and Northunbria. I raised some mercenaries and bribed the troops; took half of england then landed at Normandy.

    The Byzantine Empire since my total destruction of Constantinople has been pretty quiet along the borders, I don't know anything past Greece.

    The last Emperor who 'made' the Empire, that is he led troops and carried the day to what I think are now its final borders, recently died. he had 8 command, 9 dread, 9 influence 4 piety and 5 acumen. The currant Emperor is a young lad of 16 with 4 influence.
    Crusaders and Crusading.

    The Papacy has been reduced to the Papal States, I have graciously offered them terms time and again but they will not listen. I cannot launch Crusades or anything, and that is very annoying as I want to go kick some Arabian butt in the Holy Land. Around 1120 I sent a force to Antioch, amazingly it made it and the Kingdom of Antioch survived for nearly a decade. I could do nothing has Turkish and Egyptian attacks reduced to force to its steel core, then, in true Boromir fashion, disappeared. The final battle tallied at 128 men lost and nearly 600 Arabians killed.

    I am Excommunicated at the moment from stealing French lands again, but how exactly do I start Crusades? I have several sitting at home and I know I can't be excomm. but do I have to be at peace with the Pope too? I've been 'at war' with the stubborn bastard for nearly a century; I havn;t attacked him and he still won't accept a cease-fire.

    Two questions.

    One, what exactly do I need politically for crusading.
    Two, can anyone suggest new 'goals' to work for?
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  2. #2
    Member Member Tratorix's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strong position, where to next?

    In my recent Genoese campaign, the pope wouldn't accept a ceasefire while I was excommed. When my king died, and the excomm was lifted, he accepted a ceasefire, then an alliance next turn. You need to wait for either your emporer or the pope to die so your excomm will be lifted so you can launch crusades. After the excomm is lifted, you should be able to make peace with the pope.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Strong position, where to next?

    There's nothing to stop you from speeding things up by assassinating the Pope. If you don't think much of your new emeror, you can send him on a suicide mission. Another way would be to take over the Papal States, kill off the pope, and then withdraw from the Papal States and wait for a papal resurgence. (You can't crusade until the resurgence.) A dead pope or a dead emperor would wipe the slate clean.
    In those simple times there was a great wonder and mystery in life. Man walked in fear and solemnity, with Heaven very close above his head, and Hell below his very feet. God's visible hand was everywhere, in the rainbow and the comet, in the thunder and the wind. The Devil too raged openly upon the earth; he skulked behind the hedge-rows in the gloaming; he laughed loudly in the night-time; he clawed the dying sinner, pounced on the unbaptized babe, and twisted the limbs of the epileptic. A foul fiend slunk ever by a man's side and whispered villainies in his ear, while above him there hovered an angel of grace . . .

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  4. #4
    Third Regional Assistant Peon Member Prussian1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strong position, where to next?

    My personal recipe given your Current State:

    1. Invade the Papal States and drive His Holiness into the fortress. Be sure to remind him that you've changed the locks at Canossa and you'll be appointing your own bishops from now on, thank you very much.

    2. Wait him out. Plant a garden and enjoy the view.

    3. Take control of the Papal States.

    4. Trash the place. Destroy every single building in the province. Write on the walls. Drink from the fingerbowls. Pretend you're Robert Plant at the Continental Hyatt. If you can work in some HRE groupies, so much the better.

    5. Hike the taxes up to very high, pack up your army, and get out of Dodge.

    6. The province will go rebel (surprise). Leave it that way

    7. When the Pope eventually returns, he will return to a destroyed province with no economic base, no unit production facilities, and Dirty Limericks on the walls. This kind of pope can be pretty easily kept in line and has a weak army. Crusade to your hearts content.

    Works for me every time.
    Nations, like men, it is sometimes said, have their own destiny.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Strong position, where to next?

    Do not wipe out the Pope. I have (or had, since I havent played it in a while and dont really have the time for the 80+ minutes battles I am getting in rows of three or four) a simmilar campaign, and all went well until I decided to wipe out the Pope. He had a huge trash reemergence that turned out very difficult to manage due to the slippery nature of their borders. Instead, set him on a cheap province (as stated above, razed papal states are a good choice, but if you can find some small and isolated province, even better) and forget about him.

    In my campaign I simultaneously took the north of Spain (Navarre and Aragon) and Wessex. If you can secure the whole British Isles, you will have a very nice fall back position.
    Iä Cthulhu!

  6. #6
    Believer of Murphy's Law Member Sensei Warrior's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strong position, where to next?

    Ahh the Pope and his wiley ways. I'll start out with a small review about how not to get excommed, and then move into various ways to be recommed.

    To avoid excommunication from the Pope:
    1. When the Pope chastises you for attacking another Catho Faction, wrap it up or back off. What I mean is, you want French lands, so you attack, let's say, Il de France, you win initial combat and the Provence is under seige. The Pope says withdraw troops, and be nice for 10 years. You have 2 options. The first one is abandon the Provence. The second one is attack the castle and win the Provence before the next year. In the end the French will be off limits for 10 years.

    2. Don't go to war with the Pope. IIRC, its an auto excomm.

    3. After that don't invade Catho lands, if you are at war with another faction, you can defend your lands but not take anymore of theirs until the Pope stops paying attention.

    How to get recommed:

    1. Death of your faction leader.

    2. Death of Pope.

    What does this all mean to you right now? Well, first you have to get recommed to Crusade. As others have said there are a number of ways to do this, either suicide your king, assasinate the Pope (you can try to burn him as a heretic as well), or the ever popular take over all his lands, raze all his lands, let them go rebel, and when he reemerges he'll be an easily controlled Pope.

    Here is where I put in my 2 cents about the last one. Proceed very carefully in regardes to Pope reemergences, they have the capacity to get really messy. Every time the Pope reemerges, he is given more troops. That's good right? More troops = more $$ spent on troop maintenance = no more probs with the Pope, right? Not necessarily.

    I have on more than one occassion had the Pope reemerge with huge stacks into a razed provence thinking he won't bother anyone. In reality what happened is the Pope went on a killing spree and took over the map. Used his uber troops to invade any rebel lands nearby him, wait for any faction to attack him (like the stupid Sicilians, and/or Italians) and then blast them into obscurity, too. It was insanity. It was a long time ago but I'm pretty sure at some point he was initiating attacks against Catho-Factions aka me even while those factions were at peace with them. I cant remember the details very well but I do remember them enough to say, "I will never ever do this plan of burn raze reemerge ever again".

    That said once you get back into the Pope's good graces remember warnings are a gift that can be used to help you. Luckily the Pope has a one track mind, that is he one keeps track of one warning at a time. So you want lets say all the Spanish lands? Attack the Aragonese, when the Pope warns you off withdraw from their lands (thats right withdraw). Then proceed to attack Spain with impunity for the next 10 years. The Pope spends so much time making sure you aren't attacking the Argonese that he doesn't seem to notice you have taken over all the rest of the Iberian Peninsula.

    I had a campaign where I used this tactic to engage in my own little Hundreds Years war with France, Spain, Aragon, Italy, and the HRE. I would attack one until warned off by the Pope, then attack the next one for 10 years until the Pope warned me off of them, then moved on to the next victim until they were all gone.

    Phew, man that was a long post feel free to use, object and edit as you see fit.
    Last edited by Sensei Warrior; 10-16-2007 at 01:52.
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