No further patches for M2TW or Kingdoms

[Wolf_Kyolic]

Philosophically speaking it would take them maybe a day or two perhaps..? to combine the 4 crusade games into one. :

Unfortunately not, because campaign does not allow that. Sad but true.

Yet I still do not understand why the community does not move to Crusades. It is much better than the vanilla in any sense yet people still prefer the vanilla.

Community became noobs after Wolves became inactive??

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Unfortunately not, because campaign does not allow that. Sad but true.

Yet I still do not understand why the community does not move to Crusades. It is much better than the vanilla in any sense yet people still prefer the vanilla.

Community became noobs after Wolves became inactive??

Well I didn't buy Crusades, because if MT2W wasn't like I thought, why would Crusades be any better?, nor do I play MTW2 anymore.

Or....


Why doesn't people move back to RTW? Only reason people are staying on MT2W in my opinion is that it's used mainly for tournments. Just like BI was used mostly for tournments when alot of people (including myself,stll somewhat am) are active in RTW. Then when ETW comes out, RTW will become like MTW in a way, a game where all the "old vetreans" (old vets of RTW) would return to for Tournment games, while the STW/MTW vets would mostly do orginnal MTW for tournments.


If you Wolves don't like MT2W, you can always play SW Beta 5 (Hey,Grizzly did! )

[LadyAnn]

With M2TW another disappointment, this non-wolf noob decided to stay out of M2TW/K. I played M2TW on single player (for about 2 weeks) and M2TW/K is still in the box uninstalled.

The decision to go back to play MTW/VI with Samurai Warlords mod speaks volume of the situation

Annie

[|Heerbann|_Di3Hard]

We play also MTW VI without mods every friday evening/night (GMT). It is the last game, I still play ATM. It is still alot of fun in contrast to some other games

[Puzz3D]

Yet I still do not understand why the community does not move to Crusades. It is much better than the vanilla in any sense yet people still prefer the vanilla.

The new multiplayer community is not using the gameplay of the STW/MTW battle engine as their basis of comparison, and are not aware of the tactical features of that engine. They come from some other gameplay system which doesn't have those features. So, to them the new RTW/M2TW battle engine is an improvement over what they were playing before, but it can be shown with objective testing that it's actually inferior in tactical features to the older STW/MTW battle engine.

Another thing these new players and some vets don't understand is that having a huge number of unit types degrades the gameplay because the gameplay becomes overly complex which undermines tactical decisions being the main determining factor of the battle's outcome. The outcome is determine more by what units you buy than by how you use the units. We saw this happen in MTW with the huge increase in the number of unit types. In an attempt to restore tactics and playbalance, more and more hidden bonuses are being used for various units in the new engine, but this technique emphasizes matchup tactics while maneuver tactics diminish in importance.

The increase of the randomization of combat results in the RTW/M2TW battle engine, due to using a less robust mathematical modeling in the simulation, is another factor that works against tactical decisions determining the battle's outcome.

The degradation of the unit sprites in the new engine also works against a player's ability to clearly see the units when zoomed out which adversly impacts the player's ability to make correct tactical decisions.

The simplification of the battle interface in the new engine reduces the player's options for tactical control and maneuver of his army.

[Denali]

Empires will be better... *ha ha*

Seriously they promised.. but then again they also promised that medi 2 would have an aweome mp part.. and then crusades.. which actually has but nobody plays it because you have to wait 2 hours to find an opponent who plays the same mode.

[Wolf_Kyolic]

Another thing these new players and some vets don't understand is that having a huge number of unit types degrades the gameplay because the gameplay becomes overly complex which undermines tactical decisions being the main determining factor of the battle's outcome. The outcome is determine more by what units you buy than by how you use the units. We saw this happen in MTW with the huge increase in the number of unit types. In an attempt to restore tactics and playbalance, more and more hidden bonuses are being used for various units inh the new engine, but this technique emphasizes matchup tactics while maneuver tactics diminish in importance.

True.

[Jacob Debroedere]

I moved from age of empires 3 to RTW a few months ago and I was astonished by it's tactical depth(you don't know what crappy gameplay is if you haven't seen cuirassiers surviving direct hits from artillery, or never missing musketeers).

I was in doubt whether M2TW was worth buying it or not, when a friend of mine told me that if I wanted to play real strategy I should get MTW. The no further patching policy of M2TW/Kingdoms is just another motivation to search Ebay for a copy of MTW.

[Wolf_Kyolic]

MTW did not have as much exploits as RTW or MTW2 had so you if you were to beat a good player, the only way was to build and establish a tactic. You cannot just click behind oponents army and win in MTW like you can in RTW or even in MTW2. RPS (rock-scissors-paper) logic was obvious there so you had to watch every single unit charging to the right spot. It was sort of like chess. A single mistake and you knew you lost. Even before the engagament.


For example your oponent shoots 6 of your men in an infantry unit during the missle battle (yes there was such a thing in the past...missle battle) and you do know that this unit will route when you engage (I don't mean instantly... Just after a while). We used to mouseover and calculate the oponents combat points of the unit and compare to our own unit which would engage it and charge acording to that data. If oponent has got an 30 combat inf (attack+defence) your 27 combat one looses and nothing changes that. In RTW however, your 20 combat halved inf can route a 30 combat full unit and god knows how and why.


This changed a loooooot in MTW2? I do not think so. Better than RTW but still a lot of random sh*t is happening and you never know why. Much better than RTW but not as good as MTW (btw that random stuff used to happen in MTW too but it was called "luck factor" and its margins were not beyond acceptable limits...never and ever).


MTW was all about interpreting the game mechanics in a proper way and achieving a good amount of skills to conclude them in an efficient way and at that point creating some cunning tactics to outsmart the enemy.

RTW is all about bringing the most overpowered units to the field and clicking really fast. LMAO!

Now MTW2 is all about saving your cavs somehow and when you have the oppurtunity, flanking and disengaging and hitting again and disenagaging again and hitting again and so on until you can route a unit. LOL.

In MTW you had to do that once and you had the unit routing and most probably it would chain route the rest if that was a good rear flank. But to find that oppurtunity was not so simple because the engagement was perfectly estimated before the battle since things were not random at all and that spare cav of yours which is supposed to flank after a while could cost you the game because it was about maths as I stated above and the enemy would break your line with the extra 30 combat points he fielded into battle long before you decide about flanking from right or left with that spare cav. :)

This is how MTW2 is played now. ALL the games are the same. ALL:

1- No need for missle battle. Waste of time. Only bring troops which can melee. Don't forget to bring 3 horse archers because they do well if you flank with them and you can EVEN shoot a few volleys.

2- Advance cavs and click on enemy infantry line because cavs eat inf for breakfast now. Brilliant CA Devs decided that way.

3- The only way for oponent to stop that is to counter charge his cav to yours (nope spears won't work either) but don't worry you will pull your cavs back (disengage) after the engagement anyway.

4- When cavs engage in front of infantry line (!) double click your inf behind enemy. When they engage pull cav back.

5- Now this is critical! If you are good at pulling your cavs back, the battle is yours. Disengage as much cavs as possible and flank with them (in and out...hit -pull back, hit -pull back...again and again). While doing that always keep an eye on the rest of the cavs so that you can disengage a few more and send to flanks. And don't worry they won't route because you disengaged. This is not MTW. Things are limber now.

6- Well done. You have skills!

LMAO

[Shahed]

Well I sure as hell miss playing MP, but what to do. It's been years now and we now it's not getting better.

There's again no good MP strategy game out there (that I know of) except HOI2:DD, but that does'nt have any battle engine. SImple map, simple units but excellent MP.

[Puzz3D]

Well I sure as hell miss playing MP, but what to do.

Samurai Wars. It's free.

"It must be said, I forgot how much fun TW can and should be. Thanks for reminding me. ;)" - Tempiic 19Nov2007

[Denali]

This is how MTW2 is played now. ALL the games are the same. ALL:

1- No need for missle battle. Waste of time. Only bring troops which can melee. Don't forget to bring 3 horse archers because they do well if you flank with them and you can EVEN shoot a few volleys.

2- Advance cavs and click on enemy infantry line because cavs eat inf for breakfast now. Brilliant CA Devs decided that way.

3- The only way for oponent to stop that is to counter charge his cav to yours (nope spears won't work either) but don't worry you will pull your cavs back (disengage) after the engagement anyway.

4- When cavs engage in front of infantry line (!) double click your inf behind enemy. When they engage pull cav back.

5- Now this is critical! If you are good at pulling your cavs back, the battle is yours. Disengage as much cavs as possible and flank with them (in and out...hit -pull back, hit -pull back...again and again). While doing that always keep an eye on the rest of the cavs so that you can disengage a few more and send to flanks. And don't worry they won't route because you disengaged. This is not MTW. Things are limber now.

6- Well done. You have skills!

LMAO

Pretty much everything you mentioned above is fixed in kingdoms. Seriously, the kingdom balance is pretty good.

But nobody plays it

[Wolf_Kyolic]

I know Denali. Crusades is pretty good but noone plays it.

Actually we cannot blame them because CA released Kingdoms as four seperate games and each one has got 5-6 factions in it where mtw has a lot more than that. Why should people limit themselves to 5 factions?

I cannot believe CA. They always but always have to demonstare a **** up all the time. Always! It is like they have a **** up department and devs have to consult there for the new **** ups.



Dev: Hi John we are almost ready to finish the game can I please have the list of **** ups to add?

John (head of **** up department): Hmm ok... Make it 4 separate exe files.

Dev: That is all?

John (head of **** up department): That would be enough for now. We are busy with ETW **** ups so we could not find any more but we will have many good ones for ETW do not worry.

Dev: Cool.

...

[Tempiic]

This is how MTW2 is played now. ALL the games are the same. ALL:

1- No need for missle battle. Waste of time. Only bring troops which can melee. Don't forget to bring 3 horse archers because they do well if you flank with them and you can EVEN shoot a few volleys.

2- Advance cavs and click on enemy infantry line because cavs eat inf for breakfast now. Brilliant CA Devs decided that way.

3- The only way for oponent to stop that is to counter charge his cav to yours (nope spears won't work either) but don't worry you will pull your cavs back (disengage) after the engagement anyway.

4- When cavs engage in front of infantry line (!) double click your inf behind enemy. When they engage pull cav back.

5- Now this is critical! If you are good at pulling your cavs back, the battle is yours. Disengage as much cavs as possible and flank with them (in and out...hit -pull back, hit -pull back...again and again). While doing that always keep an eye on the rest of the cavs so that you can disengage a few more and send to flanks. And don't worry they won't route because you disengaged. This is not MTW. Things are limber now.

Pretty much everything you mentioned above is fixed in kingdoms. Seriously, the kingdom balance is pretty good.

But nobody plays it

Are you sure about that Denali? I gave in an installed kingdoms for a little try and started a crusades campaign. Now I know AI sucks, but even with the morale bonus they got at very hard (they get such things yes?), the 5-step program of kyolic seems to work too well. It's not even funny anymore.