No further patches for M2TW or Kingdoms

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

They don't care about MP. how long will it take before we realize that??

[MobileTroop]

But I guess that is standed... Leave a Unfinised product go and don't fix it to the fullest

[LadyAnn]

We can officially close this thread: they announced there will be patch for Kingdom on www.totalwar.com.

Annie

[Nem]

Samurai mod here I come. Everything after VI has been a pile of C**p as far as MP is concerned.

God!!!! we used to think MTW/VI had balance issues...well CA really proved us wrong there. They showed us the real meaning of balance by removing it totally for all future TW releases.

Genius........if it doesn't exist we can't moan about it.

See you in Samurai Worlords

Be gentle with me Mizu's

[Wolf_Kyolic]

Genius........if it doesn't exist we can't moan about it.

Hehe we all think CA Devs are silly but you see they sometimes come with practical solutions!

I really want to play samwars but cannot find my mtw cd key. :(

[R'as al Ghul]

I really want to play samwars but cannot find my mtw cd key. :(

Hello Kyolic,

you've a PM.

MizuRas

[Jochi Khan]

Samurai mod here I come. Everything after VI has been a pile of C**p as far as MP is concerned.

See you in Samurai Warlords

Hi Nem
All new samurais will be made welcome

I really want to play samwars but cannot find my mtw cd key. :(

Hi Kyolic
It is your VI cd key you need not your MTW cd key.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Samurai mod here I come. Everything after VI has been a pile of C**p as far as MP is concerned.

God!!!! we used to think MTW/VI had balance issues...well CA really proved us wrong there. They showed us the real meaning of balance by removing it totally for all future TW releases.

Genius........if it doesn't exist we can't moan about it.

See you in Samurai Worlords

Be gentle with me Mizu's

Since I will be on Sunday Also, I should say, go easy on me to Nem, I'm old and sucky

[Puzz3D]

But I guess that is standed... Leave a Unfinised product go and don't fix it to the fullest

This company has problems writing network code. STW, MTW, RTW and M2TW have all had network coding problems, but what's strange is that these networking problems have been getting worse with each new game in the series. In the first three games they fixed most of the network problems. M2TW is different in that CA has announced it isn't going to try to fix the network code.

Samurai mod here I come.

The learning curve is quite fast with Samurai Wars especially if you have played STW. The mod emphasizes playbalance and combined arms gameplay using the most tactically sophisticated and statistically robust battle engine of the Total War series. Right now we only have a few people who play Samurai Wars MP on Sundays, so we just play for fun with mixed teams.

[Nem]

It's good to see and hear from quality players.

The learning curve will indeed be fast Puzz, fast and steep if the quality of players is anything to go by

[MobileTroop]

Where can I get this mod at?

[Jochi Khan]

Hello Mobile Troop

Where can I get this mod at?

You will need a clean install of MTW plus Viking Invasion plus Patch v2.01 plus the downloads shown in Puzz3D's signature (at the bottom of his post.)

For more information read Here

[Tempiic]

This is how MTW2 is played now. ALL the games are the same. ALL:

1- No need for missle battle. Waste of time. Only bring troops which can melee. Don't forget to bring 3 horse archers because they do well if you flank with them and you can EVEN shoot a few volleys.

2- Advance cavs and click on enemy infantry line because cavs eat inf for breakfast now. Brilliant CA Devs decided that way.

3- The only way for oponent to stop that is to counter charge his cav to yours (nope spears won't work either) but don't worry you will pull your cavs back (disengage) after the engagement anyway.

4- When cavs engage in front of infantry line (!) double click your inf behind enemy. When they engage pull cav back.

5- Now this is critical! If you are good at pulling your cavs back, the battle is yours. Disengage as much cavs as possible and flank with them (in and out...hit -pull back, hit -pull back...again and again). While doing that always keep an eye on the rest of the cavs so that you can disengage a few more and send to flanks. And don't worry they won't route because you disengaged. This is not MTW. Things are limber now.

Pretty much everything you mentioned above is fixed in kingdoms. Seriously, the kingdom balance is pretty good.

But nobody plays it

Are you sure about that Denali? I gave in an installed kingdoms for a little try and started a crusades campaign. Now I know AI sucks, but even with the morale bonus they got at very hard (they get such things yes?), the 5-step program of kyolic seems to work too well. It's not even funny anymore.

[Denali]

Well the AI was never a real challenge in the total war series imo. However playing human opponents is a huge difference. I didn't play kingdoms for very long but the balance is far better than it is in vanilla. It's not perfect, that would be almost impossible but its very decent and people don't rush anymore and people use missiles. Try to play vanilla as it is now. Without a rush army or with archers or xbowmen you already lost.

[LadyAnn]

Sounds good, I'll give it a try after they actually patch it :p (one single foyer for everyone).

Annie

[Lupu]

About kingdoms balance:
Now that missile battles are important,
there are new unbalances
First of all pavise crossbowmen make hacked meat out of archers costing more than themselves.
Second: the same is for mounted crossbowmen vs other HA, also melleeing is no option for the other HA because the MC are so fast
Third: that combined with crossbowmen ammo lasting longer is a game killer for non-pav. crossbow factions.
Fourth: (This has been since 1.0 but wasnt important) the winner of the missile battle has to attack because he has more men left to shoot away the remaining ammo faster. But still winning missile battle with xbows vs archers makes xbows having MORE ammo left.

Any opinions on that? it has been since 1.2 with crossbowmen being superior, they havnt fixed it, and its so easy to make out, is it because CA have european culture or something?

Thats what I think is one of the few things left in kingdoms that makes battles won by the part with the most overpowered units...

L

[Orda Khan]

About kingdoms balance:
Now that missile battles are important,
there are new unbalances
First of all pavise crossbowmen make hacked meat out of archers costing more than themselves.
Second: the same is for mounted crossbowmen vs other HA, also melleeing is no option for the other HA because the MC are so fast
Third: that combined with crossbowmen ammo lasting longer is a game killer for non-pav. crossbow factions.
Fourth: (This has been since 1.0 but wasnt important) the winner of the missile battle has to attack because he has more men left to shoot away the remaining ammo faster. But still winning missile battle with xbows vs archers makes xbows having MORE ammo left.

Any opinions on that? it has been since 1.2 with crossbowmen being superior, they havnt fixed it, and its so easy to make out, is it because CA have european culture or something?

Thats what I think is one of the few things left in kingdoms that makes battles won by the part with the most overpowered units...

L

Sounds like nothing much has changed. These are points that were present in MTW, Pavs were overpowered back then too.
Don't forget that Mounted Crossbows also possess CC ability I'd love to see someone actually try to do this. It seems to be an unnecessary advantage to offer European factions who already possess a measureable advantage with overpowered pavs. If HA are a threat and a nuisance to European factions, that's how it was!
The east/west balance is still broken.......since MTW

.......Orda

[Nigel]

Greetings friends,

some of you may remember me from the time I was active in MTW/VI. Sadly, when RTW came out it was a big step backwards in terms of Mulitplayer, so eventually I stopped playing and moved on to different things.

Reading this thread I get the impression that things have not changed much and that there is not a great MP community around M2TW.

Well, I dont want to start moaning. Just want to say hi to a few old friends and if MTW/VI is still beeing played, I may drop by there on occasion to have some fun.


Best wishes,
Nigel

[Nem]

[/QUOTE]Don't forget that Mounted Crossbows also possess CC ability[/QUOTE]

OK I admit i'm a noob, whats CC?

[CBR]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantabrian_circle

[LadyAnn]

Hi Nigel :)

Annie

[Lupu]

Sounds like nothing much has changed. These are points that were present in MTW, Pavs were overpowered back then too.
Don't forget that Mounted Crossbows also possess CC ability I'd love to see someone actually try to do this. It seems to be an unnecessary advantage to offer European factions who already possess a measureable advantage with overpowered pavs. If HA are a threat and a nuisance to European factions, that's how it was!
The east/west balance is still broken.......since MTW

.......Orda

Whats so special with CC? Most HA have it...

[Orda Khan]

Whats so special with CC? Most HA have it...

The ability to gallop on horseback whilst drawing, nocking and firing arrows, to the front, side and backwards (Parthian shot).
I'd love to see some guy with a crossbow do that.

Nigel
Good to see you again. I still remember some very good battles back in the day.
I believe VI is still being played, mainly on Fridays and Sundays

......Orda

[TosaInu]

Hello Nigel.

[Lupu]

True, lol, Id love see a man with a crossbow even do a parthian shot, especially the reloading.(also europeans were not skilled horseacrhers, if someone should do it than not one of them)
Even using a crossbow on a horse would mean it would loose its superiority, as the superirity of a crossbow against a bow is its greater power and that its doesnt require much skill to use it well. Because to fell a horse you dont need a bolt, due to horses mostly being unarmored, also a crossbow usable on a horse cant be mor powerful than a bow, a crossbow on a horse only gives disadvantages: slower reload rate, same strenghth.
The thing with that its easier to use also sais against something: Having skilled elite crossbowmen isnt worth it, because a skilled archer easily beats a skilled crossbowman with less expensive equipment(bow, arrovs vs crossbow, bolts)
So elite crossbowmen are unlikely and that means the mounted crossbowmen are probably wealthy militia, what also even more disproves them doing a parthian shot.

I think CA have understood the crossbow invention wrong.
To a bow its not an invention like a musket to an arquebus, its more like an aoutomatic gear system to a manual one.
What I mean is that its not an improvement, its an equal, more expensive but in some areas more useful simpilfier.
For a bad driver the automatic gear is better because than he can use it better and focus on other things but the manual gear has greater potential.
This is what I mean:

Peasant crossbowman beats peasant archer
Militia crossbowman beats militia archer
Medium crossbowman is equal to Medium archer
Elite archer beats Elite crossbowman

The strengths of a crossbow is the greater power that means its mor useul vs armor, and that its easy to use and better than a bow when used by a unskilled marksman.
The strenghts of a bow are that its cheaper, fires faster and if used by a skilled marksman better than a skilled marksman with a crossbow.
Weaknesses of xbows: More expensive weapon and ammo, higher weight, slow reload, difficult to repair.
Weaknesses of bows: Less power, good bows take long time to make and an unskilled shooter isnt good with it in comparision to a crossbow.

L

[Puzz3D]

I think CA have understood the crossbow invention wrong.

They haven't misunderstood anything. As they said during RTW, they make the game to satisfy the expectations of the general public, and that their focus is not on realism and the game isn't a history lesson. Those are the reasons they gave during RTW for why hoplites use their spear underhanded instead of overhanded, why units moved so fast, why rocks explode into fireballs, why elephants throw men 150 feet through the air, why men and horses incinerate in 5 seconds, why the Egyptians were 1000 years off, why chariots are faster than men on horses and why horses could jump over the spears of a phalanx, etc. It's done in the name of fun, and the underlying quality of the simulation was allowed to deteriorate since MTW since the casual player isn't going to notice it. They even put in Sonic the Hedgehog stars appearing over units that get powerups in RTW/BI. A concession was made to realism since you can turn off the stars, but unfortunately you can't turn off the powerup itself. This is strange because in MTW/VI multiplayer powerups were removed by CA after players requested it. So, somebody at CA (LongJohn) thought it was a good idea to turn them off.

I don't know how Cantabrian Circle is implemented in M2TW, but it's extreme in RTW. A unit of 40 horse archers in CC could wipe out a unit of 60 foot archers while only loosing 1 or 2 men.

[Lupu]

So the expections of the general public are crossbowmen owning archers?
Most of what I said there was just a standpoint in realism, the point was to say that cheap crossbowman shouldnt beat elite archers...

[Jochi Khan]

Hello Nigel

A long time since we met on the battlefield.

Yes, MTW/VI is being played by a small number of players on Friday and Sunday evenings. There are sometimes players in the Foyer on other evenings too.

[Puzz3D]

So the expections of the general public are crossbowmen owning archers?

I would think so because crossbows are perceived to be the more advanced technology, so in a simple minded way of thinking crossbows beat archers. How is it with guns vs crossbows? Did they do the same thing?

In Samurai Wars we have guns and archers, and the guns do not blow away the archers even though it covers a time period well after the end of M2TW. Both weapons have the realistic reload times and statistical effectiveness chosen by CA over 7 years ago (with the exception of one gun type which we made 50% stronger), and they work out fine with a nice pace to the battles. Starting with RTW, CA moved away from keeping reload time and movement rates to a realistic scale. They now treat reload time and movement speed as arbitrary variables.

[Lupu]

No the crossbow is less versatile, and isnt 4x as powerful as a bow as the reload time.
What you say is that all racing cars should have an automatic gearbox because thats the newest, most advanced technology, it is but it doesnt mean its better if you can use the other one right its better.
In TW also the firing rate for crossbows is unrealistic.
You know the crossbow came from china? Before it was improved in europe it went over many lands, and when europeans fought in areas using bows, why didnt they start using crossbows? The places in the east were actually more tchnologically advanced that europe.
Can you tell me why english longbowmen always beat french crossbowmen?

Early guns vs Crossbows: I think crossbows would win due to greater range.
Early guns vs Archers: Archers should win due to greater firing rate and range