Rome for sale?

[Anonymous II]

Hi everyone!

I was thinking of uniting Italy, and was wondering if it's possible to negotiate with the papacy to trade Rome in exchange for some other cities/regions?

If it's like five regions, that's fine with me!

Thanks in advance!
Anonymous II

[Jason X]

i haven't done this myself, but have read other posts claiming to have achieved it by
1) giving the pope a bunch of regions far away from rome (e.g. in levant)
2) pope then moves capital away from rome
3) you then buy rome from papal states in the normal manner (in order to consider selling a territory, any faction must be bigger than 3 provinces)

[DVX BELLORVM]

I don't think you can buy a city if it is a faction's capital. And the AI doesn't have a habit to change its capital.

[Grog]

I don't think you can buy a city if it is a faction's capital. And the AI doesn't have a habit to change its capital.

In my current HRE game, Poland changed it's capital from Krakow to Kiev after my ally Hungary isolated Krakow against my eastern border (after much military funding from me...). It helped that Poland had been one of the dominant early factions, and had spread strongly east into Russia/steppes before I funded Hungarys war against them...

Also, Jason X, you make an interesting point about the capital relocation by gifting a chunk of far-off provinces. I had been wondering how to 'evict' my pet pope from Rome to allow global victory, but my chivalry ruleset + alliance from turn 2 with pope was making this difficult. I'll have to give this a shot. I had already gifted the pope Yerevan just so I can crush the mongols on his doorstep, so looks like Tbsili/Jedda gift and maybe aquire trezibond for him should do the trick

[Sheogorath]

The AI does randomly change its capital sometimes.
One game I was playing as the Scotts and had just recently taken the Holy Land (Huzzaah for the Scottish Empire!), Egypt decided they didnt want me around, and when I pushed them back, their capital was in the Sinai for some reason. The Moors hadnt taken Egypt proper, and werent even advancing on it.
Wierd, eh?

[napoleon526]

An easier way is just to forment an uprising in the city. Make sure the Papacy has another province somewhere out of the way (like Rhodes or Corsica). Move a bunch of spies into the city to create unrest. Bring up a bunch of assassins to sabotage buildings that create order, like brothels, churches, militia barracks, city halls, etc. As long as the Papal States don't have a massive garrison in the city, eventually there will be an uprising. You can then move an army up and take the city.

Keep in mind that some of your spies and assassins will get caught, meaning that the Papacy will get pissed at you. Keep a diplomat nearby to give gifts to the Pope in order to stay on his good side. When you do take the city, you'll get a message from the Pope requesting that you return the city to the PS. If you do, then you'll "become one of the Pope's closest allies" and if you don't then your relations will suffer severely. Decline, but then give the PS 5000 or so florins to keep on their good side in order to forstall excommunicaton.

[Fisherking]

Yes if you give him a larger wealthier city far away he will change the capital. You may have to take Cairo and Alexandria for that to happen...along with one more reagan.

What I usually do is either gift something far off and then make the city go rebel...not easy with Rome, or attack him and then gift Rhodes to him...with a diplomat already there they will make peace and love you for giving him a home.

[Flavius Merobaudes]

In my HRE campaign I crusaded to Jerusalem and took Alexandria, Cairo and Gaza on the way. I gave these four provinces to the pope and they were prone to rioting. The next turn, the pope's capital is Gaza, no more riots in outremer and Rome just an average city which I got in exchange for Acre and 5000.

[Anonymous II]

Ah... nice to see such interest for this topic. Flavius Merobaudes' example indicates that Papal States will move its capital to the area where they have most cities in order to prevent rioting there. Sounds good. I might see a unified Italy in my Sicily game then.

[phonicsmonkey]

napoleon526, I have found it almost impossible to get AI cities to revolt using that tactic, unless they are a long way away from the faction's capital.

It seems like there is a cap on the unrest you can cause with spies, and even if you get the city to riot for a turn, the next turn public order and happiness is way back up!

My understanding is that it is hard-coded impossible for a faction's capital to revolt, and practically impossible to get nearby regions to revolt.

Have you ever gotten it to work with a faction's capital or any nearby regions?

Of course it could work in this case if the OP gets the papacy to move its capital first, as already described.

On that, I once saw the Pope crusade into Iberia with a full stack - once he was there he expanded and moved his capital there (to Zaragoza I think) - he never came back to Rome!

[TheLastPrivate]

OR you can throw in a bunch of spies and destroy every single building in rome to cause massive riots. This happens even if rome is the only city & capital of the vatican. You have to keep the spies to at least a number of 5 (more since they get caught and stuff)

[_Tristan_]

I would agree with Phonics on this matter...

Unless Rome is no longer the Pope's capital, I don't think you can get it to riot (whatever the number of spies sent in, the number of building destroyed, or the size of the garrison)...

Even some of the nearest regions of the target faction can't be led to riot...

In my Hungarian campaign, with 5 spies in and three assassins destroying any PO and happiness building every turn, Vienna hasn't rioted at anytime leading to me capturing it when HRE declared war on me...

So to the OP, I would rather advocate the relocation of Vatican strategy, it has much a much better chance of success

[TheLastPrivate]

Oh, but I HAVE caused Rome to riot even though it was the only city & capital.
Should try harder. and it wasn't all that energy-consuming either. Just every beginning turn i'd destroy every single building in rome, then pop some more spies in. Took less than 10 turns i think.

I do this with catholic faction every time I play since I hate touching the papacy, and never fails.
But do it AFTER u aquire assassin/thief HQ. subterfuge rating seems to have something to do with it happening.

[PseRamesses]

Ah... nice to see such interest for this topic. Flavius Merobaudes' example indicates that Papal States will move its capital to the area where they have most cities in order to prevent rioting there. Sounds good. I might see a unified Italy in my Sicily game then.

Yup, done it many times as Sicily, Milan and Venice. In my current game as HRE I´ve relocated Milan to Ajaccio/ Cagliari, Sicily to Malta/ Tunis and Venice to Crete/ Rhodos and Cyprus. Went on a crusade to the Holy Land and took Antioch, Aleppo, Damascus, Tyre, Acre and Jerusalem from The Turks and Gaza from the Eggys. Gave them all to the Pope, relations perfect, waited one turn and he moved capitol to Jerusalem so I bought Rome for 2500fl for 3 turns.
He´s not going to last there though. My spies tells me that he´s at war with Turks, Eggys and desert tribes (DIV mod). Outnumbered 10:1 with no infrastructure (I raised it earlier) what so ever its just a matter of time.

[Anonymous II]

He´s not going to last there though.

Aren't you going to help him out?

[PseRamesses]

Aren't you going to help him out?

Ohh, errrgh... ofcourse! Yeah, sure.... not. One pope less in the world, god ridn´s.

[Anonymous II]

Ohh, errrgh... ofcourse! Yeah, sure.... not. One pope less in the world, god ridn´s.

Hehe, OK, that's why you're being so generous:

"Went on a crusade to the Holy Land and took Antioch, Aleppo, Damascus, Tyre, Acre and Jerusalem from The Turks and Gaza from the Eggys. Gave them all to the Pope, relations perfect.."

I guess you just send out the wrong signals.

Cheers, mate!

[Old Geezer]

Well, I guess if it takes 10 years to sail from France to Mexico it is OK for the Pope to sell Rome to the Moors. Maybe in Empires there will be submarines that can transport armies with artillery and horses.