Quote Originally Posted by Charge
. another thread about "weakling" romans and "conan" barbarians with "achilles" greeks.
How the hell romans won battles being outnumbered 1:4 or more and being such a weaklings, while UBER-SUPER-MEGA greeks and gauls with UBER-SUPER-MEGA spears always was in loosers???
(perhaps they were led by AI-captains )

Just as always in such discussions, anti-roman guys (eb team) curve their line about this ^^crap, and even if here, right now roman veteran show them how he can easily beat almost every barbarian, they will say that barbarian won.

Anyway if I had a time, I would completely redone all stats.

eh....first of all chill out.

Some battle statistics.

Roman-Hellenic battles:

a)Battle of Thermopylae (191 BC)

Romans: 20,000 infantry, 2000 horse, unknown but small number of elephants
Seleucids: 10,000 infantry, 500 horse, some allies (unknown number)

b)Battle of Magnesia

Romans:43,000 Romans + 6,000 Greeks, 5,000 horse, 16 elephants
Seleucids: 26,000 infantry (16,000 semi professionals) + 3,000 Galatians, 12,000 horse, 56 elephants

c)Battle of Heraclea

Romans: 30,000 plus unknown auxilia
Epirots: estimated 30,000-35,000

d)Battle of Asculum (279 BC)

Romans:20,000 +Dauni allies
Epirots:Not exact numbers, but considered equally numbered

e)Battle of Cynoscephalae

Romans: 32,500-33,400
Macedonians: 25,500

f)Battle of Pydna

Romans: 33,400 infantry, around 4,000 horse, 22 elephants
Macedonians: 44,000 infantry (21,000 phalangites), around 4,000 cavalry

This is for the 4:1 you mentioned against the "achilles" Greeks

Roman-Gallic

I couldn't find accurate numbers with a quick search so, I won't post them. Caesar tended to exaggerate the enemy forces so they are debatable. However, apart from Alesia, I have not found 4:1 overwhelming odds.

Punic Wars

First

a)Battle of Tunis (defeat)

Romans:15,000 Infantry, 500 Cavalry
Carthaginians: 12,000 Infantry, 4,000 Cavalry, 100 Elephants

b)Battle of Agrigentum
Romans: 40,000
Carthaginians: 50,000

c)Battle of Adys

Romans:15,000 Infantry, 500 Cavalry
Carth: 5,000+ Infantry, 500 Cavalry and unknown number of elephants

Second

a)Battle of Cannae (deafeat)

Romans:86,400–87,000 men
Carths: 40,000 heavy infantry, 6,000 light infantry, 8,000 cavalry

b)Battle of Capua (212 BC) (defeat)

Romans:8 Legions, approximately 40,000
Carths:approximately 2000 Numidians plus Capuan allies

c)Battle of Cissa

Romans:20,000 infantry, 2,200 cavalry
Carthies: 10,000 infantry, 1,000 cavalry

d)Battle of Geronium (draw)

Romans:4 legions + 4 in reserve
Carthies: 36,000

e)Battle of Cornus

Romans:20,000 infantry (2 Roman and 2 Allied Legions), 1,200 cavalry
Carthies:15,000 infantry,1,500 cavalry +Sardinians (?) + Elephants (?)

f)Battle of Dertosa

Romans:30,000 infantry, 3,000 cavalry
Carthies:25,000 infantry,4,000 cavalry, 20 Elephants

g)Battle of Herdonia (210 BC) (defeat)

Romans: 20,000
Carthies: 30,000


etc, etc

You get the point. I don't know about imperial Rome but in the times of the Republic, I find only its stubbornness and diplomacy impressive. The military is average.