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  1. #1
    Member Member KrooK's Avatar
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    Default Re: THank you Al Gore for the lesson about my own country

    Gah Cegorach - you are a bit like PIS - you are finding conspiracy everywhere.

    If you are angry that not everyone see how great is our Country - simply buy mtw2, start playing online and see what is situation there :) - full polish domation. No one who started with Poles won.


    Greets
    Last edited by Banquo's Ghost; 10-18-2007 at 07:02. Reason: Removed insulting generalisation
    John Thomas Gross - liar who want put on Poles responsibility for impassivity of American Jews during holocaust

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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: THank you Al Gore for the lesson about my own country

    Dear Krook, I see you still enjoy your irrational prejudices. Have a nice day and please think about it.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

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    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: THank you Al Gore for the lesson about my own country

    Quote Originally Posted by KrooK
    Gah Cegorach - you are a bit like PIS s

    Your luck, you said A BIT, otherwise...

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    American since 2012 Senior Member AntiochusIII's Avatar
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    Default Re: THank you Al Gore for the lesson about my own country

    Quote Originally Posted by KrooK
    Al Gore is typical American and you good know what we are thinking about inteligence of Americans here in Poland
    Hey now, that isn't nice.

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    Member Member KrooK's Avatar
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    Default Re: THank you Al Gore for the lesson about my own country

    OMG I just told the truth. Sorry but its common point of view. If you want change this point of view - change your education system. Some moths ago I have read that into test about religion (which is quite important into public debates into USA) 30% Americans replied that Sodoma and Gomora are twins. Sorry but who do you think they are?

    Cegorach - don't worry:) PIS is not bad.
    John Thomas Gross - liar who want put on Poles responsibility for impassivity of American Jews during holocaust

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    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re : THank you Al Gore for the lesson about my own country

    And to think people look at me like I'm mad when I insist that Americans are more open and respectful of other cultures...


    ***

    @Cegorach - I don't know if the specifics of Gore's statement are true or not. I also don't think he meant that all Polish children were brought to underground mines all the time to get a chance at a gasp of fresh air occasionaly. In the book, in the relevant chapter, Gore gives a general description of the immensity of the environmental ravages of communism. About which he was right, was he not?

    Rather than focus on a single - perhaps indeed a somewhat unfortunate - quote, why not focus on the larger story? Communism nearly wrecked Polands environment. Then, soon after the fall of communism, Poland managed to pull of a 15 year run of major economic growth AND ecological recovery. Something to be proud of, surely?


    When communism died in Poland, it left a legacy of economic decay and environmental ruin. Today, a half-decade into the transition to market democracy, Poland's economy has the highest growth rate in Europe, and environmental protection is vastly improved.

    Between 1990 and 1993, air pollution in Poland fell by 40%.

    In 1993, economic growth doubled to 4% and industrial output was up 7%. But air pollution continued to decline by 9%. So recession could not have been the predominant cause of environmental improvements in Poland. Improved environmental policies, strengthened law enforcement and the systemic reforms themselves have played central, if underappreciated, roles.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Poland's environmental laws are also more stringently enforced today, thanks to a 1991 law that greatly expanded the power and independence of Poland's chief environmental law enforcement agency, the State Environmental Protection Inspectorate. In the 1980s the inspectorate was a small and weak agency. Its 400 poorly-paid, -trained and -equipped inspectors were responsible for investigating and monitoring compliance at some 43,000 polluting enterprises nationwide, but they had no power to actually enforce the laws and penalize violators. Today, under the 1991 law, inspectors can shut down polluters, order installation of pollution-control equipment and impose noncompliance fines. The agency now employs 3,000 environmental inspectors operating out of 50 offices throughout Poland.

    The increased power and staffing of the State Environmental Protection Inspectorate has led directly to improved monitoring, compliance and enforcement. The agency has issued thousands of orders to install emissions-control equipment at polluting factories. It has completely shut down seven plants, closed parts of 25 plants and temporarily halted production at 22 others. These enforcement actions have been a major source of pollution reductions. And they have been facilitated by systemic reforms, most notably the institution of the rule of law in Poland.

    The law in post-Communist Poland now has real authority, and can no longer be ignored by politicians, administrators and plant managers. This is clear from the fight that took place in 1992 over pollution-control equipment at Warsaw's new Okecie II airport. The airport was planned in the mid-1980s, when the Communists still held power. Even at that time, the law required installation of all environmental-protection equipment specified by environmental inspectors. But Warsaw city officials summarily waived the legal rules, and construction proceeded without any environmental controls. However, by the time the airport was ready to open in 1992, the system had changed. The law was no longer subordinate to politics, and the airport's noncompliance with environmental regulations was headline news all over Poland. The regional environmental-protection inspector from Warsaw threatened to close the airport. And though the main administrative court later ruled that the airport could remain open, it ultimately was forced to retrofit all of the originally required equipment. Simply put, the law was enforced.

    Poland is backing up its improved environmental law enforcement programs with increased environmental investments. In 1991, for the first time ever, Poland reached a level of environmental spending commensurate with the OECD countries. This money is being used to fund badly needed public environmental improvements. In 1989, almost half of Poland's cities -- including its two largest, Warsaw and Lodz, with a combined population of 2.5 million -- were without operational sewagetreatment plants. All of their municipal wastes were dumped, completely untreated, into surface waters. Since then, more than 1,200 new sewage-treatment plants have been built all over Poland and hundreds more are currently under construction. In addition, the Polish government has funded several independent and innovative institutions for environmental protection, including the National Fund for Environmental Protection, the Eco-Fund and the Environmental Protection Bank.

    While political-economic transformation has brought structural improvements for environmental protection, Poland's ecological problems are far from over. It is still home to some of Europe's most polluted places. Many Polish rivers and lakes are still so polluted that they cannot be used even for industrial purposes -- let alone for drinking water -- and Poland remains among Europe's largest waste generators both in absolute terms and per unit of economic production.

    Meanwhile, this environmental degradation continues to take a toll on the Polish economy and the health and well-being of Polish citizens, especially the young. In the heavily polluted region of Upper Silesia, infant mortality in 1993 was twice the Polish national average and five times the average of the OECD countries.

    But all this simply confirms what most observers understood quite well in 1989: Cleaning up the environmental mess created during more than 40 years of totalitarian socialism would not be quick, easy or cheap. In 1991, the Ministry of Environmental Protection predicted that complete reversal of Poland's ecological crisis would take 30 years and cost a quarter of a trillion dollars. Poland still has a long road ahead to environmental health and safety. But acknowledging this obvious fact should not blind us to the very real progress that already has been made."
    Why waste time being indignified over a single fifteen year old trivial quote? A quote that, I want to stress, is understood by readers of his book as an attack on poor ecological policy, not a stab at Poland.

    Lastly, will we see a Polish election thread by your hand? Am looking forward to it.
    Anything unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
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    I would be the voice of your conscience if you had one - Brenus
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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re : THank you Al Gore for the lesson about my own country

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
    And to think people look at me like I'm mad when I insist that Americans are more open and respectful of other cultures...
    Are you...nevermind...


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

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    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re : THank you Al Gore for the lesson about my own country

    KrooK

    Cegorach - don't worry:) PIS is not bad.
    Bad joke... if they win I am becoming a terrorist when they cross the line which they are planning to.





    Louis VI the Fat

    Ohh Dear God another easy-going/light hearted thread will become a dead serious one ? Come on - read Gregoshi ! That is the SPIRIT !



    @Cegorach - I don't know if the specifics of Gore's statement are true or not. I also don't think he meant that all Polish children were brought to underground mines all the time to get a chance at a gasp of fresh air occasionaly. In the book, in the relevant chapter, Gore gives a general description of the immensity of the environmental ravages of communism. About which he was right, was he not?
    Not a single one was brought underground to breathe fresh air.

    Of course the comunism brought incredible demage to our environment and the recovery is even more incredible as the result, but it was never my idea to discuss this issue.

    I just though this will be something good to laugh at.









    Rather than focus on a single - perhaps indeed a somewhat unfortunate - quote, why not focus on the larger story? Communism nearly wrecked Polands environment. Then, soon after the fall of communism, Poland managed to pull of a 15 year run of major economic growth AND . Something to be proud of, surely?

    Of course - I remember the times when the rivers were so polluted... now fish are returning to major rivers and some smaller ones are amazingly clear.




    Why waste time being indignified over a single fifteen year old trivial quote? A quote that, I want to stress, is understood by readers of his book as an attack on poor ecological policy, not a stab at Poland.

    Again it is becoming too serious...













    Lastly, will we see a Polish election thread by your hand? Am looking forward to it.

    I am away and I am not going to discuss it for now - even if I could I wouldn't.

    Check your inbox for my answer.

  9. #9
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re : Re: Re : THank you Al Gore for the lesson about my own country

    Quote Originally Posted by cegorach
    another easy-going/light hearted thread will become a dead serious one ?
    My bad then. Sorry.

    On the upside, it seems we managed in a single thread to both poke fun at Gore's creative use of 'facts', and celebrate Poland's succesful ecological recovery.

    We shall leave the coming elections for what they are, and not go into them.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    now fish are returning to major rivers and some smaller ones are amazingly clear.
    You..you m-mean those small, incredibly clear fish that glow in the dark and have strange feet?

    Anything unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
    Texan by birth, woodpecker by the grace of God
    I would be the voice of your conscience if you had one - Brenus
    Bt why woulf we uy lsn'y Staraft - Fragony
    Not everything
    blue and underlined is a link


  10. #10
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re : Re: Re : THank you Al Gore for the lesson about my own country

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat


    You..you m-mean those small, incredibly clear fish that glow in the dark and have strange feet?


    How did you get this picture ? It's my little cousin !


    * They are from Silesia and were spending too much time breathing 'fresh and healthy air' in the mines...

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