Swords vs Spears (Serious conversation here plz)

**The_Mark** · 10-17-2007, 17:33

Originally Posted by geala

In single combat a warrior with a spear (not to talk about a sarissa) against a swordman is in dire straits. It is easy to deflect the spear with the sword, pass the tip and bring the sword into play. Try it with two sticks of different lenght.

Have you actually tried this? A spear (well, obviously not a sarissa in this case) is surprisingly fast and agile, and you can actually do more stuff with it than just poke (more of thrusts below) with it; you can e.g. smack the swordsman with it (not to mention that many spear tips had a slash-capable edge) - it doesn't have to maim the opponent as long as it distracts him long enough for you to do another poke, or stuff.

Right, about the pokey bit. Thrusts, in general, are much faster than slashes of any kind - you don't have to worry about applying angular momentum to the stick you're using, you're operating in the direction of the center of mass of the stick. Naturally, quickness goes both ways - you can disengage the pokey stuff from an attack quickly, which is an insane bonus when the opponent has parried or you're feinting. Thrusts also have more range, or rather, you can add range to your thrusts much more easily (e.g. lunging with a rapier).

Oh, right, if anyone says they'll just cut off the tip of the spear with their sword, I *will* come and poke holes in them while they try to cut it off with their edgy piece of metal of choice.

**Tellos Athenaios** · 10-17-2007, 18:46

Uhm it's kinda hard to get past a spear with a sword. For one thing; that a certain spear may be 2m long doesn't mean the tip is 2m away from the one wielding it. Also you can -if a little experienced- whirl the spear around and hit someone with the backside. Since the momentum is mass*acceleration*radius that makes for a pretty nasty blow.

And if the spear was made for war; rather than hunting you could "block" the sword likewise with the shaft; and then thrust the spear forward. That too; makes for some nasty suprises one vs. one. Just as with the sword blocking the spear; this depends on opponent stupidity/ignorance/over-enthusiasm.

**Tellos Athenaios** · 10-17-2007, 18:51

And indeed; trying to hack off the tip from the spear (apart from being futile; since humanly impossible in many cases) generally means that you're exposing a fairly large part of your body. Think about the ridiculous angles your arm has to make in order for you to even attempt such a thing in a normal situation (i.e. the spearman hasn't made any kind of ludicrous foolish error).

**Moros** · 10-17-2007, 19:29

Those who think you can only poke with a spear, clearly haven't seen to many Jet Li movies!

**Bootsiuv** · 10-17-2007, 19:38

I don't think too many ancient farmers were hip to the eastern arts.

Even if they were, that fighting style is not conducive to large groups of men.

**Thaatu** · 10-17-2007, 19:40

Ah, Jet Li. My mentor in the subject of ancient warfare.

Edit: But Bootsiuv, that style can be used against large masses.

**Bootsiuv** · 10-17-2007, 19:47

I don't think you should cite jet li movies as a credible source (although I understand where your coming from).

I still don't think one warrior could kill hundreds of men so easily, as those movies might suggest. Jet Li would have likely took a knife in the back in one of the first scenes.

Unlike movies, in real life, your enemies don't necessarily wait for you to finish fighting someone else before they attack you.

**Thaatu** · 10-17-2007, 19:53

Are you serious? Have you seen Kill Bill vol.1? Tell me that's not how it's done, and I'll go kung fu! Just try me...

**Thaatu** · 10-17-2007, 18:47

Not many seem to remember that most spear units in EB also have shields, so spearmen don't have to parry with the spears. The edge in a spear vs. sword fight would be for the swordman, after he got close enough, but it's a whole different situation if they both had shields.

I don't know which the Romans adopted first, the shortsword or the large (almost) rectangle shield. If the shield came first, the shortsword follow up is only natural, because I'd say the method of "hiding" behind the shield and making quick stabs at the enemy is more effective than keeping the enemy at a distance with spearpoints, IF the troops have a large shield that covers their bodies almost entirely.