Can a "weak" king spark a rebellion?

**Tony Furze** · 10-19-2007, 08:02

Hello all.

Im playing as Aragon/Early/GA on Vanilla MTW VI.

Im in the mid 1100 s and I ve pushed out the al Mohads and Im bordering Egypt, thanks to the efforts mainly of the El Cid successor. Everything has been going well-I press Shift to check provinces.

At 1152 I press the End Year and there s a rebellion headed by Gen. Ferrer without any warning at all. The King , Felipe, has only two crowns and even went down to one, until Cyrenecia was taken.

Was the rebellion due to the weak King? All provinces are well above 100%.

**nara shikamaru** · 10-19-2007, 12:13

Now, I am no expert on what causes a rebellion, but I'm guessing a King with low influence would have more disloyal generals, then one with say high influence.

Although the rebellion could have been caused by the difference in religion. Seeing as you are playing as a Catholic nation, and I'm guessing you took over a Muslim province, that does increase the chance for rebellion.

What surprises me is, if your kingdom goes as far as the Egyptians, and you beat the Almohads out of Spain, then how did your king end up with low influence?

Still, the rebellion was probably a mix of it being predominately one religion, and you another, different culture, and the low influence of your king.

Sorry if I wasn't of any help, but I'm just guessing mostly, and going on what I know. Maybe someone else has a better explanation, or at least a better way to state it.

**macsen rufus** · 10-19-2007, 12:26

Hi Tony, was it just a rebellion or a civil war? It sounds like a CW if one of your generals headed it up. What happens with a low-influence king, is that your newly trained units have low loyalty. The worst case I had was in a mod, the Egyptians had a fairly new, low-influence pharaoh and a prince came of age in the same year a famine struck Egypt - instant civil war! I was flabbergasted, I'd been looking forward to a new son in the army, but no, the

decided to try to take over on his sixteenth birthday. Needless to say I had to lay him across my lap and take the slipper to him

Teenagers today, I ask you ....

**Tony Furze** · 10-19-2007, 12:56

Thank you,nara shikamaru and macsen rufus.

nara: the generals from the old regime (Sancho II) remained loyal, but those I trained were really really low level types (as macsen points out) Ferrer stood out having 3 shields of loyalty.

The point about religion is worth looking into-although I did train a lot of Catholic priests specifically for this purpose-not that they did any good!

My King was "born"with low influence. I guess I should have done something about him earlier, like send him on the battlefield with only his horse. I really didn t see him coming.

macsen: yes , it was Civil War. My sympathies go with the rebels (I still haven t chosen) who have less provinces and command. Im not sure I want to back that nogood King.

**macsen rufus** · 10-19-2007, 12:59

Ah, yes, that can be the upside to a civil war, when all is done and dusted you either have a) a new dynasty, or b) the old one has pulled its socks up a bit and cleared out some deadwood... of course there's going to be territory lost, but getting it back adds to influence

**Tony Furze** · 10-19-2007, 17:14

Well, I went with the rebels in spite of their smaller force, and el Cids successor being with the loyalists.

The economy is thriving and I ve meneged to retain my Homelands points...now for the Crusade. Maybe sometimes its not good to expand too far too quickly.

**Noir** · 10-19-2007, 17:24

Hi Tony,
yes, the crusade would give GA points a plenty, not to mention that you seem close to the Holy Land (assuning you have retained the North African posessions after the civil war?).

Its easier in my experience to keep away from civil wars if your generals retain their stats after they are dead - but more problematic if you play with the green_generals command line in the exe shortcut - which i do ever since i found out about it

Noir

**caravel** · 10-19-2007, 20:56

Originally Posted by Tony Furze

Everything has been going well-I press Shift to check provinces.

At 1152 I press the End Year and there s a rebellion headed by Gen. Ferrer without any warning at all. The King , Felipe, has only two crowns and even went down to one, until Cyrenecia was taken.

Was the rebellion due to the weak King? All provinces are well above 100%.

Remember, provincial loyalty (happiness) has no bearing on civil wars. Civil wars occur because of low loyalty among your generals and heirs.

Low provincial loyalty causes revolts, that are either loyalist (including faction reappearances), religious, bandit or peasant.

Originally Posted by Tony Furze

nara: the generals from the old regime (Sancho II) remained loyal, but those I trained were really really low level types (as macsen points out) Ferrer stood out having 3 shields of loyalty.

It's a good idea to have a spy in every single province to counterspy against enemy agents. These spies can be trained by framing those disloyal generals for treason. They gain valour from doing this also. If you have a low influence faction leader this is especially important as 90% of your newly trained units will start out with low loyalty. If you keep training and do nothing about these disloyal generals they will contribute to your disloyal generals outnumbering your loyal ones at which point a civil war is likely.

**Tony Furze** · 10-20-2007, 02:25

Fantastic, Cambyses II! Im still following those words of wisdom you gave when I first started on MTW.

Does it have to be spies in particular? If you use emissaries will you be warned about potential dissent? I ask because iof the requirements needed just to train a spy. I had hardly managed to get a Keep running, let alone a Castle which is what is needed.

By the way, King Ruy Ferrer had a magnificent battle in Cyrenecia, while accompanying a Crusade to Antioch. He was already in his fifties, and had three children: a daughter of seventeen and two sons below seven. You can guess what happened next...

**caravel** · 10-20-2007, 02:53

Originally Posted by Tony Furze

Does it have to be spies in particular? If you use emissaries will you be warned about potential dissent? I ask because iof the requirements needed just to train a spy. I had hardly managed to get a Keep running, let alone a Castle which is what is needed.

Only spies can orchestrate a treason plot. Emissaries won't be of much help to you.

You can use assassins as provincial counterspies until spies become available, though unlike spies they won't have any affect on the happiness of the province.

**Seabourch** · 10-30-2007, 11:16

Not that easily if I recall. Unless of course you've been losing wars, have low loyalty generals with large armies or as stated have enemy spies in your provinces.

**Pharnakes** · 10-30-2007, 20:45

Are multi way civil wars posible? ie, more than two pretenders?

Also, does having a civil war going on affect the happiness levels of your provinces, even those not directly touched by the war?

**RamGrath** · 10-30-2007, 22:46

no civil wars have 2 sides only the current king and the opposite general (i normally have a prince leading in mine) it shouldnt affect it but obviously if your king is weak enough for a civil war then it will be pretty low anyhow

**Sensei Warrior** · 10-31-2007, 01:21

I have seen cascading civil wars. Where as soon as you finish up one civil war, another starts on its heels. Just keep backing the same horse and you'll have uber generals in no time. Often a way to keep from being bored in the late game, when the only thing stopping you from winning is yourself.