The Hundred and Four: Council Thread for the SSbQ Succession Game

[Bootsiuv]

As you approach the great building in the center of Kart-Hadast, you are awe-struck by it's grandeur.

The city is bustling with activity, and the sights and smells around you liven the senses....surely this is the mightiest city on earth! A grand temple-complex to Baal and Astarte shares the center of the city with the great hall, where the Shophet of Safot Softim biQarthadast resides...

The Qarthadastim, being famous for their naval superiority undoubtedly gained from their Phoenician roots, have constructed a mighty port. As Governors and Senators alike arrive from all over Safot Softim biQarthadast, they speak of the great harbor, the grains and other goods which pass through it, and the mighty warships stationed at it's piers. Surely, the pride of Qarthadastim will ward off any aggressors!

This will be the council thread for our SSbQ Succession Game.

To all those who aren't playing along, please, for the sake of my sanity and moderator's precious time, please do not post in this thread. If you would like to join along, you may introduce yourself HERE.

PLEASE DO NOT POST IN THIS THREAD IF YOU ARE NOT PLAYING ALONG!!

Official SSbQ Succession Game Constitution

On the Powers of Shophet

1) Any council member can run for the office of Shophet (senators and governors).

2) To run for Shophet, all nominees must express their wish to run before 11:59 P.M. EST (7:59 P.M. GMT) on the Wednesday preceding the election.

3) The Shophet will be elected by a council of his peers on the Friday of every week. Voting will take place over a period of 24 hours in the Council Thread. We will not use live chats for voting.

4) The Shophet will begin his term at any time following the live council meeting held on every Saturday (time pending), but must complete his term by the following Thursday.

After the Shophet posts his savegame, the next group of candidates for Shophet will be announced, and the process of voting will begin again.

5) The Shophet does not vote on matters in the council. He acts as judge of the proceedings, breaking tie-votes and guiding the general direction of the proposals based on strategic decisions.

On the Powers of Council Members (Governors and Senators)

1) Senators recieve one vote per proposal in council, while Governors recieve two.

2) Governors have 24 hours to complete battles in the field and return the save game, or the Shophet will confiscate the battle.

3) Battles fought by Governors are fought out by their respective members, barring extenuating circumstances to be decided by the Gamemaster.

4) Senators will move up in rank based on many things, but not limited to; activity, maturity, and general service given to the empire.

5) Council Members can amend these Constitutional Rules, or add addendums, during council by a formal proposal at any time during the course of the week. These will be voted on at the live debate (although a mechanism will be made available for those who cannot attend). The following format will be used for Constitutional Proposals in the council.

Constitutional Proposal 1.1 where 1 is the term of the Shophet, and .1 is the number of the proposal. So Constitutional Proposal 14.6 would be the sixth offical Constitutional Proposal made during the fourteenth term of our game. These issues will be voted on before the next Shophet begins his term.

6) Other proposals, known as Strategic Proposals, which include such things as building construction and troop recruitment/allocation, can be made at any time during the course of the week. These will be voted on at the live debate (although a mechanism will be made available for those who cannot attend). The following format will be used for Strategic Proposals in the council.

Strategic Proposal 1.1 where 1 is the term of the Shophet, and .1 is the proposal number. So proposal 14.6 would be the sixth official proposal made during the fourteenth term of our game. These issues will be voted on before the next Shophet begins his term i.e. the 15th term of our game.

/End Constitution

Glenn and Boru have been named co-GM's of this game, and will be expected to ensure the game keeps moving forward if I am unable to attend.

This thread is now open to all players of the SSbQ Succession Game. In-character discussion is preferred. If you've never roleplayed before, perhaps you should wait for some more experienced.

Bootsiuv

[Bootsiuv]

Proposals for the 1st term of Shophet Abib 272 - Abib 270

Constitutional Proposal 1.1 - [I, Gisgo, Governor of Ippone, do hereby propose] an amendment be added to the constitution requiring a second for any nominee for Shophet before he can be added to the list of those seeking the position.

Constitutional Proposal 1.2 [originally Strategic Proposal 1.11] – Elect a general (hence known as the Magistrate) who shares the Shophet's term.

Constitutional Proposal 1.3 [originally Strategic Proposal 1.11] - Allow the Shophet to nominate a Magistrate in times of urgent need.


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Strategic Proposal 1.1 - Of the current 5 fleets that the Qarthadastim command, all but 1 shall be disbanded by the end of the year of 272 B.C.E.

Strategic Proposal 1.2 - I [Hanno, Governor of Lepki] would advise to see two levies made in each city of Iberia, in Corsica, in Sardinia, and in Lilybaeum.

Strategic Proposal 1.3 - The city of Lepki will be given the highest priority for construction of choice in the year 272 B.C.E.

Strategic proposal 1.4 – Peace with Epirus provided a payment for troubles caused [restitution] of at least 5.000 (10.000 is better) and Cartogaphy information.

Strategic Proposal 1.5 – Disband militias everywhere there are more than one detachment present to liberate cash that can be better used elsewhere.

Strategic Proposal 1.6 – Prepare Karalis, Bocchoris, Lepki, Gader and Alalia to receive ports as they need a land clearance to start trading in large scale.

Strategic Proposal 1.7 – Allow our mightiest Governor to build a better port at Lilibeo to increase our trade value.

Strategic Proposal 1.8 - A small company of levies should be constructed by the cities of Kart-Hadast, Attiqa and Adrumeto, that can be kept between these three provinces.
The company should consist of a medium number of light troops that can be sent immediately and cheaply to counter and independent threat that may appear from Numidia or Mauretania.

Strategic Proposal 1.9 - For my province I [Gisgo, Governor of Ippone] would like permission and troops from the senate to move south of my city and take the region south of Ippone.

Strategic Proposal 1.10 - Along the lines of proposal 1.8 i say that roads be built in as many provinces as possible as this will allow the forces in proposal 1.8 to better defend out homeland from any threats that do come!

Strategic Proposal 1.11 - The fleet near Alalia should be the only one not disbanded with the first turn.

Strategic Proposal 1.12 - Constructing civilian ports where the local terrain allows it should have priority over all but the most urgent of needs, especially over roads.

Strategic proposal 1.13 - Encourage growth in Alalia and build up military facilities to support future operations.

Strategic proposal 1.14 - Concentrate all currently availible offensive forces on taking north-west Africa asap,

Strategic proposal 1.15 - I strongly suggest that we defend ourselves. From what you may ask, why from the uppstarts and rebels and foreign armies that seek to destroy us. Therefore I propose the building of walls. Walls in Bocchoris, Alalia, Karali and Ippone. That will buy us time if those cities are badly defended to relieve the siege.

Strategic proposal 1.16 - Why do we have peasants and lowly citizen? To tax them of course! Let's put taxes on everything, salt, spices, ivory, you name it and we'll tax it.
Therefore I propose we raise taxes all over our glorious empire.

Strategic proposal 1.18 - I must requesition the forces from Atiqa, along with one company of Numidian Cavalry from Kart-Hadast itself, to be sent on a voyage to sicily to bolster my forces there, before they sail though, I ask that we train one company of Dorki Leebi-Feenikim Mookdamim (Liby-Phoecians) in Aqita or Kart-Hadast to be sent along with them, to ensure victory.

Strategic proposal 1.19 - I also ask that my elephants be kept in our service until at least after I have Syracusai, If the senate forbids my march upon Messana, then I shall bring up another proposal that shall wait until that time.

Strategic Proposal 1.20 - The war with Syrakousai must be our first priority after we've secured our frontiers.

Strategic Proposal 1.21 - Iberia must recieve all reinforcements Hamalcar does not need in the war with Syrakousai.

Strategic Proposal 1.22 - Admiral Thero will be allowed to retain command over a fleet of 26 of our finest warships. All other fleets will be disbanded.

strategic proposal 1.23 - Besiege Kirtan with a large force and await counterattack by the mobile army stationed nearby, and then destroy both in open combat.


Please Note: Strategic Proposal 1.11 was changed into Constitutional Proposals 1.2 and 1.3. All Strategic Proposals behind that have gone up the list, thus they have a number that is 1 lower than you might expect. Please pay attention to the propositions, not the numbers, as I may do this again in the future, for the sake of organization.

[Sassem]

Governor signature: (junior members have to wait for signatures till they are a member!)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Senator signature:

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[Sassem]

City's and buildings:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[PershsNhpios]

Oh, worthy citizens!

This day is a most pleasant one, a day fit for speaking such things as I may be obliged to divulge.
And there are many things, my busy friends, and there are important things, and as I am alone here, on this podium, surely there is much time!

You all know that our government, though turbulent and cast into uncertainty at times - bless our Shophet - has become stable and efficient once more.
I myself, though my frequently humble requests to help our state in Iberia were ignored brutishly, I myself have profited well from this change.
Yes, I have been given the military government of Lepki.

But, oh it is not a governor's position that I ever sought, nor is it a post such as has found me here!
For I do not command, but serve, I have always served my puissant people!
And here, in Lepki, it is apparent to me, that much like my own person and proposal has been brushed aside of the mighty guise of our Senate in Kart-Hadast, so too, has the most faithful province of Lepki been allowed no attention, no acknowledgement!

Dare I say, that you people here, who do supply and support the capital with every want, are so more deserving of a capital yourselves!
But we cannot appear disgracious, or ingrateful in our work.
No, dear men, dear kinfolk and women, for we are like the ox, that does pull the greatest burden and ask the slightest reward, nay, no reward, for completing without complaint, every wish of our master.

And though as our human state we have together the strength of many thousand oxen and their potential violence!
We must, as humans, attempt to imitate their patience also.
Break the back of our master with our vicious horns in a moment, we could do so, but then by what infamy would the name Hanno be known, by what savage rememberance would the province of Lepki stay in history?
To those who do not know our honour in suffering, it would be barbarous to even speak of such a thing.

Gentle, but giant people you are, you are known for this, but like gentle men it is supposed that we should remain faithful until destiny permits us!
And until such a time, it is Hanno who will under the guise of the willing ox, travel to Kart-Hadast and see that his true masters are furnished with all things they would desire!

[Bootsiuv]

*Mago, Governor of the city of Kart-Hadast, stands to take his place at the podium*

The Governor from Lepki is eloquent in speech, and surely wise in his rule. I have little doubt that the eastern frontiers will be safe under his patronage.

I stand before you, now, fellow council-members, to discuss the issues at hand. As governor of Kart-Hadast, I see much in my dealings with foreigners. I tell you now that the natives which surround us are treacherous at best, rebellious at worst. They must be dealt with if we are to secure our heartlands. They lack any real unity however, thus they pose little threat to those of us who sit here in this mighty hall.

Cities such as Ippone, and the wise Governor Hanno's own Lepki are many months march from our heartlands, thus these lands are much more vulnerable. I will await what these senators and governor have to say on the matter, but I am of the opinion that these two cities must be fortified as soon as the council deems fit.

On the matter of Sicilia, the Greeks of Syrakousai are liars and beggars. They have always been a thorn in our side. I feel it is here that we should apply the greatest percentage of our troops, as the lands surrounding Syrakousai are rich and fertile.

Hamalcar has assembled a mighty force, including a division of war elephants. What hope have the treacherous Greeks against such beasts?

The Romanioi, as the Greeks call them, have an alliance with the mercenaries and pirates of Messana, so this city must wait. War with the Senatus Populusque Romanus, as they're more properly known, is undesirable at best, and will cost us all our heads at worst.

Iberia is a matter of concern, as a large force of Turdetanians has recently been spotted to the north of Gader, which goes ungoverned. Hasdrubal finds himself severely outnumbered here, and reinforcing this region is also of utter importance which should be strongly considered by this council here today.

Our fleet, mighty though it may be, is currently too large for our economy to support. I would like to make my first official proposal to the council;

Strategic Proposal 1.1 - Of the current 5 fleets that the Qarthadastim command, all but 1 shall be disbanded by the end of the year of 272 BC.

I will now step down from my position on the podium, so that others who have assembled here may speak as well....but before I do, I would like to take this chance to announce officially my intent to run for the position of Shophet.

I thank my fellow council-members for their time

*the governor of Kart-Hadast takes his leave from the podium, and waits to hear from others with earnest....*

[PershsNhpios]

Mago, you are aggressive as the lions I keep in my own palace!
Surely, in the wild and their own domain did they hold their will over all lesser creatures!
But, with the regardless ignorance that accompanied their belligerence, they have found themselves to serve only as entertainment in a great being's lair - do not lead our magnificent Carthage into conflicts at every corner of our territory lest we end up scattered and caged under a more efficient empire!

And who has yet betrayed us?
Lepki is a most secure province, do not dare to doubt this!
On behalf of my most contented people, who have, as I have recently spoken in their presence, requested of me to ask lowly in this Senate that the city of Lepki may be given greater priority in construction rather than military.
Let your armies flourish where you will, but we of the eastern province wish to see greater production within our towns - that we may appease you, the capital, more brightly!

But, to speak of places outside my jurisdiction, on Iberia for a moment.
I do not wish any longer to travel to Gader, I am contented in my government.
However I want to be allowed to advise on the decisions you are creating in regard to that western province.
The tribes there, our reduced natives, have never provoked us or shown any hostility.
Rather they have acommodated us in our rule over the southern end of the peninsula.
The only city which has ever shown disaffection are the peoples that inhabit Arse! We are to embrace victory most profitably by opposing the rival citizens of Sicilica Graecus than to begin a prolonged war with all the native Iberians!

Yes, I commend strengthening the garrisons in all of our towns outside of Africa, especially that of Corsica!
But we need not be furnishing great armies everywhere!

Strategic Proposal 1.2

I would advise to see two levies made in each city of Iberia, in Corsica, in Sardinia, and in Lilybaeum.

Strategic Proposal 1.3

The city of Lepki will be given the highest priority for construction of choice in the year 272 B.C.E.
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I should allow the Senate to surround and digest these proposals, though I have many more things to praise and censure!
Namely, the conduct of our military in barbarian Numidia and how a war with the Syrakousai should be handled.

[madmatg]

*uhum*
*Gisgo governer of Ippone takes to the podium*
I would like to say thank you to all those who have come before and set in such hard work on our constitution. You will all find me rather short of speech, my lot in life was not one of eloquence but I hope to show the council that I have been given instead the ability to lead men in battle. Many of you may know of my less than perfect history in my former assaults on our enemy, but i would tell you that i have proved myself a worthy tactician and defender and will soon prove my ability to attack. Towards that end and a few others i submit the following proposals

1. For my province i would like permission and troops from the senate to move south of my city and take the region south of Ippone, this city is very close and while a rather large number of the enemy sit in it i am more than sure that my tactical prowess and our superior troops will be able to take the city with no more than 60% their numbers. As soon as the city is taken and government installed the army can be disbanded or sent north for proposal 2

2. I second the former proposals on attacking syrakuse, though I am weary of the war elephants at our present situation, I would like to disband them now(2500$ a turn upkeep) but my father assures me they will be of good use against the Syrakusians so I will not speak out against his desire to keep them until Syrakousai is taken. I would also like to add onto the proposal for taking Syrakousai and say that we should concentrate all our forces(once our African provinces are secure) on Sicily and as quickly as possible take Messana and Rhegion. If we are to do this Rhegion is a very important strategic target, as the city has only one land route to reach it, and thus could serve as a bottleneck to cut off any SPQR troops moving south towards sicily.

3. an amendment be added to the constitution requiring a second for any nominee for shophet before he can be added to the list of those seeking the position


These are my proposals i now yield the floor to whichever senator would speak next

[PershsNhpios]

And how many troops would you demand Gisgo?
And to what city would go you marching off to in search of violence?
By what reason do you take the regulations of speaking and proposing in our Senate and bend them disgustingly to a level your incompetent speech can be heard above?

These proposals you have written, they are as clear as the water the people of Lepki must depressingly drink from!
Yet you have no concern for the economy of our empire, only to start wars with peoples and states I have not even yet heard of until now, and to me it seems you yourself have no knowledge of the countries you determine to fight!
Let us find by scribe and by travel, knowledge of these places that we intend to rule - before we declare war upon them!

Is this senate bent only upon conflict?
Are you all baying for the blood of any and all foreigners?
Are there no customs or races in this world that can convince you of friendship, beside our own?

Sicily is our greatest threat, and surely the garrison of the Syrakousai will be enormously overcome with little effort.
So let it be, and let us encompass one platform of the world at a time.

I do not rush to be in battle with the Ptolemaioi!
And as for those who think themselves capable of serving our senate, and doing so only by pointing your crooked fingers, have you never heard the great and noble man, who has lived and deliberated many years before our births, Aristotle?

For he says, "That it is absurd to hold that a man should be ashamed to be incapable of defendin himself with his limbs, and not be ashamed he cannot defend himself with speech and reason."

He tells us, "For it is more characteristic of a human being to defend himself with speech and reason than with his limbs".

So let his wisdom be heard amongst our Senate.
That we all are capable leaders, that men are as malleable in the streets of Kart-Hadast as they are in the face of barbarians!
Consider yourselves more seriously!

[Leão magno]

My beloved colleges, it is my honor to be the first senator to address you all!
It is in our hand the fate of the greatest Republic of all times and the Republic expect from us nothing less then the same greatness!
As senator of Lilibeo, merchant, son of merchants, and member of the Sacred Band of Astarte I have been given the great honor to reverence Karthadastim both in war and in commerce and now I will try to do so in the Political Arena.
For years we fought off the many Greek menaces under the great command of our beloved governor Hamalcar who is yet to speak in this noble council as the sound and powerful voice of all Elymais!

In those years we learned that Greeks are a deceiving foe which destruction will not come only from weapons but likely, from alliances and especially, from money.

Without the three of them we will always have our island riches in the danger of thieves and criminal such as the one called Pyrrhus!

Therefore, I urge you to consider a merchant approach of war affairs, we need money, and we need rebuilding our economics from the endless wars we fought!

Build and rebuild ports at Karali, Bocchoris, Allaia, Gader and Lepki to allow the commerce to flow throughout the Republic should be a priority!
War with Epirus is not necessary to continue since his treacherous presence is no longer in the island, peace, with the proper reparations fee (10.000 and cartography information) can be acquired by a talented diplomat!
Let the Italiotes fight because that is what they do best and let as trade, because that is what we do best!
We need rebuilding our army, dispatching the militias and replace them with real soldiers!

The Elymais are uniting their thoughts in soon to be presented proposal In order to guide our great Republic into a new golden era!

As for now, if the great Mago nomination needs a someone to second, then Let me be the one who seconds it!

Strategic proposal 1.4 – Peace with Epirus provided an payment for troubles caused of at least 5.000 (10.000 is better) and Cartogaphy information.

Stratecgic Proposal 1.5 – Disband militias everywhere there are more than one detachment present to liberate cash that can be better used elsewhere.

Strategic Proposal 1.6 – Prepare Karalis, Bocchoris, Lepki, Gader and Alalia to receive ports as they need a land clearance to start trading in large scale.

Strategic Proposal 1.7 – Allow our mightiest Governor to build a better port at Lilibeo to increase our trade value.

[PershsNhpios]

This is a fine and noble Senator who addresses us!
If Lilibeo should house minds of such intelligence and wisdom, then let us all be most supportive.
Sicily, it is apparent, is the centre of our military interests.
And surely the government of this province will be purely obliged to motivate their people onto the offensive.

Also, I proudly accept on behalf of my province, that Lepki would be given allowance for the necessary funds in creating greater sea trade.
We will have ships sailing from as far as Bithynia to offer us their goods!
Let us be given clearance for ports, and later, larger docks, and our desire for a wealthier community will be sated!

So too should the other more remote cavities of our State should recieve similar treatment, I agree with all economical statements made by this man of Lilibeo!
I do acknowledge and praise you, Senator, for your efforts toward my province.
But I exert further than yourself, again in the name of Lepki that our province is given priority in efforts of construction.
For Sicily, as I have said, is the centre of our focus in conquest, therefore it is not construction that will be most idealogical immediately!
I applaud also, Senator, that you advise truce, and not unprovoked conflict.

However, Pyrrhus of Epeiros will accept no such deal.
He is a leader beset by enemies, with no allies or even clients to aid him in his constant wars.
This is the fate of our nation, should we become so breathless as to be named warmongerers!
Let us create a peace with his Illyrians, but we need not ask any great price.
Should we take Sicily as a whole for our own benefit, these people will be our neighbours!

And may there come a time, when either we will ally with them against other powers? Or perhaps with other powers against them.
All options of diplomacy should be left open, and we should not scorn anyone with demanded ransoms until we are sure of our future.

As for the current levies, I have spoken and proposed already on places where I consider new recruitments most necessary.
I think also, if possible, that Lepki, Ippone and Bocchoris should be reduced in garrison, that this may be done only with total assurance and safety is best.
For the three provinces I have mentioned are in our current status, very secure.

I must allow others to propose and speak, but before I do, this must be said:

Proposal 1.8

A small company of levies should be constructed by the cities of Kart-Hadast, Attiqa and Adrumeto, that can be kept between these three provinces.
The company should consist of a medium number of light troops that can be sent immediately and cheaply to counter and independent threat that may appear from Numidia or Mauretania.

[Boru]

*Bomikar, Governor of Adrumeto, addresses those that have arrived*

I bring welcome to my brothers of this almighty council and I see much has already been discussed. Since much of what my mind has been pondering this last few months on what to propose, many of my finest ideas on what should be accomplished has been stated. Even though i do enjoy the sound of war and the province south of Ippone looks very inviting, a long war against the natives would drain our treasury.

I agree with Governor Hanno and his proposal 1.8 but before we disband any troops we must make sure that the area is secure and safe from the eyes of our enemies. I also support the ideas that Sicily should be our only focus on any military conquest and we should use our strong forces in Sicily to take Syrakousai. If our council thinks it could be done with out the elephants then i say disband them, even though i would love to see them trample the vile and ugly Greeks*laughs*.

Now onto thoughts of our economy, I second proposal 1.1. A mighty fleet is not needed in our current state so this will really help cut down on our expenditures. As for which province should get priority building, it should be the one who needs financial help the most. So let us survey our wonderful lands and see what would benefit us most for the cost!

With that being said i have never been one of many words so i leave you with those thoughts and...

Strategic Proposal 1.10- Along the lines of proposal 1.8 i say that roads be built in as many provinces as possible as this will allow the forces in proposal 1.8 to better defend out homeland from any threats that do come!

[Leão magno]

Noble ones, I had my spare of your patience and attention, now, humbly ask just a little more of you!

Pyrrhus is surrounded by enemies, even within what he calls his “people” he knows he have enemies! Was not Syrakousai that led the effort to invite Pyrrhus out of the island?

He may accept any proposal Karthadast offers provided it is disguised of an equal opportunity of profit, maps for maps, trade and cease fire for gold!

I may insist in the reparation terms as stated before since the money provided can allow us many initial investiments in the economical recuperation! And if we are to make such diplomatic endeavor we may need to keep another fleet of Pentekorai to guarantee that our diplomatic mission arrives in Epirote territory. Besides, keeping two fleets f pentekorai should be enough to disencourage pirate’s raids against our shores, do not forget the pirates sice thay never forget any of us!

As for recruitment, please, let me share my knowledge acquired in war against Greeks and Sikelians, the militia unit, composed of our own people lacks training , lacks good armor, lacks instinct to kill, lacks order to go to battle!

One Dorkim lubim-Ponnim Mookdamin costs to keep almost the same we spend with one militias for the double of utility! Yes, their training is costly, but their efficiency repays the investment with interests! I agree to raise a new army but we need real soldiers for this army, not citizens!
Consider well what do you recruit and you will need less recruiting ! Consider that Bocchoris, Karali and Alalia are in fantastic position and state. They are not in danger of invasions, have no real threats near them and the peace and order is kept even without the presence of our military, they could be disbanded and the city, even without a nominated governor in case of Alalia, would not rebel.

That said, we could use one of Bocchoris army to reinforce Mastia and help keeping our Iberians holdings safe. This action, together with roads connecting Mastia to all villages, settlements, until Gader would help increase trading and defense possibilities.

About attacking Syrakousai, … they have already proved to be a tremendous foe all over the centuries.
Let us not haste, let us get prepared before we call Hieron to the battle field, let us build an army and give it experience before sending them to such an important task.

The city itself is very well defended and has plenty of allies inside and outside the Island, Elephants can be kept or can be disbanded since their use is better at open battles than in sieges, especially against walls so thick as Syrakousais ones.

I would not advice attacking the city with elephants just as well as I would not advice to attack the city before rebuilding our economics which may, and will take, at least years to happen.

To end my discuss and allow other to give their contribution I must emphasize that if we are going t war it is p to this senate t build forces to better protect our homeland, agreeing with as Hano the Wise is inevitable, I would go along with him and even further asking us to nominate a magistrate responsible to command the armies of Karthadastim against any enemy insane enough to dare attack us ! This would guarantee that the best man will be in the leading position of our defenses

Strategic Proposal 1.11 – Elect a general (the magistrate) who shares the Sopets term or allow the Sophet to nominate one in times of urge need

[Ag3nt_Magnum]

Dear members of our great councill. I ask of you that you hear me out, for I have urgent matters of a personal nature to wich I must attend, as time is of the essence.
I agree with the noble senator of Lilibeo on most of the things he has wisely spoken before us today. However, there are certain measures that have been proposed by him, as well as others, with whom I cannot agree.

I feel that now is not the time to start raising a fresh army, since the vast amounts of money that would be spend would by far exceed the possible benefits of such a measure at this point. Our current standing army is very large as it is. Therefore, I strongly agree with the proposal 1.5 to disband much of our citizen militia, especially in my home town Alalia. Maintaining them costs us a significant amount of our local treasurie, but far more imporant is the fact that they do not take part in the process of builiding our local economy. Therefor, allowing these men to return home to their families would serve us greatly.

Our great fleet rules the waters close to our home, with no forseeable enemy. The only fleet that finds itself a long way from any worthy port is the one stationed near my beautyfull island. Keeping only this fleet as both a means of transporting our troops as as a buffer towards any possible romani invasion or barbarian raids would greatly lift the heavy burden placed upon our economy by maintaining our fleets.

Strategic Proposal 1.12
The fleet near Alalia should be the only one not disbanded with the first turn

Also, since our provinces are so distant and many not linked directly by land to each other, ensuring safe heavens for our sea-merchants in case of storms and facilities for larger ships to haul cargo from the distant corners of our nation should be one of our most urgent needs.

Strategic Proposal 1.13
Constructing civilian ports where the local terrain allows it should have priority over all but the most urgent of needs, especially over roads

I would now like to point out to you, o distinguished members of the councill, sons of the greatest families in our nations history, the vital strategic importance held by the island of Corsica. It is our most northly outpost, perfectly situated to sustain both small-scale attacks and large invasions all across the area. Should the warlike people of the north go to war against us, they would have to muster their forces to confront us in Sicilly, leaving their very homeland exposed to a full scale attack or even a raid launched from our base in Alalia. Since the fleet would guarantee the safety of my peoples island, there would be no need to raise a large garrison in the near future. Instead, ensuring low taxes, a stable governance and a general welfare would encourage growth. This period of peace can be thus used to construct ample military facilities on the island, allowing us to support and supply with fresh troops any offensives and subsequent defensive actions for the entire region

Strategic proposal 1.14
Encourage growth in Alalia and build up military facilities to support future operations

I also think that attacking the people of Siracuse is a mistake. Instead, I think we should concentrate of bringing the full benefits of our civilisation on the opressed and savage people of Africa. The army currently in Sicilly could support this action, as there is no immediate threat towards the region it curently defends.

Strategic proposal 1.15
Concentrate all currently availible offensive forces on taking north-west Africa asap

[NightStar]

Govenors, Senators

I am not a man of flowery words, but one who speaks his mind. I may have been sent to this ugly little island for my past doings but it won't contain me for long. Kart-Hadast is on the rise and soon no one can eclipse our glory. But we cannot rule the lands around the mediterranian with brave words alone.

Strategic proposal 1.16
I strongly suggest that we defend ourselves. From what you may ask, why from the uppstarts and rebels and foreign armies that seek to destroy us. Therefore I propose the building of walls. Walls in Bocchoris, Alalia, Karali and Ippone. That will buy us time if those cities are badly defended to relieve the siege

Strategic proposal 1.17
Why do we have peasants and lowly citizen? To tax them of course! Let's put taxes on everything, salt, spices, ivory, you name it and we'll tax it.
Therefore I propose we raise taxes all over our glorious empire. I am willing to pay more taxes for the glory of the empire.

I agree with senator Ag3nt_Magnum on his strategic proposal 1.15, I think we should concentrate our military might on subduing Africa and put it's people under our iron heel. After consolidating Africa and conquering those blasted Numidans we can move on to the real threats to our power.

Roma must be destroyed

[Boru]

Hello again to my council members i come back to speak to you since i have recently received information that has peaked my interest in different areas. The two settlements to the west, Masaesyli and Maurisi, both have trade docks established within them. I know before i was in support for military action in sicily but before even that we should move to take these two towns first! It would obviously provide us with more funds for our great nation, but even more importantly we would have the entire northern cost under our control. I stress again that i am not in favor of immediate military action unless we can support it, but if we can these two settlements would benefit us more then the one settlement in Sicily. This goes in perfect line with proposal 1.14, but again only when we can support the war effort.

I also stress again that we must build roads in the provinces that don't have them and with that i second proposal 1.12. Ports and roads would do well to get our economy off to a great start! One last thing my council members is to listen to senator nightstar and tax as high as we can...AS LONG AS our citizens are content!

*steps down awaiting others to speak again*

[Wolfman]

An unkown senator from the city of Adrumeto stands up and addresses the council
Noble Senators of Our Most Illustrious City of Carthage lend me your ears. I am only a lowly senator of our great nation but I have a vision of greater future for our nation. Governor Bomilkar has just informed us of something that would be a great financial boon to our Fair nation of carthage.I know many senators will probably say that we need to concentrate our forces in sicily but hear me out. If we were to take these to settlements we would gain to trade ports for free. And do not worry about war debts. The amount of income gained from those to ports would pay for the debts. Because of these reasons I fully support Governor Bomilkar and I hereby support these three proposals from the Senator of Alalia. 1.12 1.13 1.14.

[Wolfman]

Sorry Double post

[Spoofa]

*The 22 year old man Hamalcar stands and walks to the podium*

Good day to you all, I am sorry for my prolonged silence, but I am astonished by the lack of support for a campaign in Sicily.

Do you not know of the wealth of that city? the splendor? It is almost a rival to Kart-Hadast itself! It has a large port, with access to trade all across the Mediterranean, it is one of the focal points of sea trade! It is one of the richest states, we Must seize it. It appears there may be a lack of confidence in my tactical and strategic ability as a commander in this council hall, yes I have suffered defeats before in Sicily but we cannot let this pass us by, their armies are weakened from our past campaigns in Sicily, we must pounce upon the gazelle lest it gets away and we starve.

You are also mistaken, we need not change our military focus towards north Africa yet, we control the most profitable portion of north Africa, moving inland would do little but to secure our southern and western border, a just and well thought out move to say the least, but it is not a major priority, trust my strategic judgement, Sicily is ours for the taking, like a ripe olive dripping with the morning dew, it will provide us with ample gold to supply other campaigns elsewhere afterwards, moreso then the conquest of some random settlement in the middle of the Sahara.


Strategic proposal 1.18: I must requesition the forces from Atiqa, along with one company of Numidian Cavalry from Kart-Hadast itself, to be sent on a voyage to sicily to bolster my forces there, before they sail though, I ask that we train one company of Dorki Leebi-Feenikim Mookdamim (Liby-Phoecians) in Aqita or Kart-Hadast to be sent along with them, to ensure victory.

Strategic proposal 1.19: I also ask that my elephants be kept in our service until at least after I have Syracusai, If the senate forbids my march upon Messana, then I shall bring up another proposal that shall wait until that time.

Do not be foolhardy enough to believe that the large sum of lands we may gain from conquest in Africa would mean a profit for Kart-Hadast.

[Bootsiuv]

*the Governor of Kart-Hadast rises, and takes his place at the podium*

Fellow council-members, I am pleased to see that so much good work will undoubtedly be done over the next two years.

I am of the opinion that we should strike hard in Sicilia with Hamalcar's forces, once the banners of Qarthadastim fly over the gates of Syrakousai, once Hamalcar sits in the Palace of Heiron, once the Greeks are our slaves, we shall recall are army from Sicilia, bring in a garrison force of loyal citizens, and then we shall take on the Numidians with our experienced Sicilian Corps.

Thus I shall make my next proposition

Strategic Proposal 1.20 - The war with Syrakousai must be our first priority. Furthermore, the city must be in Qarthadastim hands before the end of the next Shophet's term.

I also respect the wishes of all senators to keep their respective territories safe, but I tell you now that Iberia should recieve whatever reinforcements Hamalcar can do without.

Thus, my next official proposal:

Strategic Proposal 1.21 - Iberia must recieve all reinforcements Hamalcar does not need in the war with Syrakousai.

And, our wise senator from Alalia is correct that his island may very well be a good jumping point to Roma, although I think the real way to Latium is through Southern Italia. If we take Rhegion and Taras in quick succession, the SPQR will find it's heartland threatened. If Capua falls, Roma is within a season's march.

I will agree to upgrade Alalia, but it is hardly high on our list of priorities in my opinion. We would be better served spending our resources in Iberia.

I must disagree that Admiral Danel is the wisest choice, as his fleet is rather new, and they have little experience. Admiral Thero commands a fleet of some 52 warships, all much more experienced than our fleet stationed near Corsica.

Thus, my next proposal is as follows:

Strategic Proposal 1.22 - Admiral Thero will be allowed to retain command over a fleet of 26 of our finest warships. All other fleets will be disbanded.

Granted, the fleet near Alalia will take some six - nine months to reach port, so I must admit I am on the fence when it comes to this, but I feel the more experienced men under Admiral Thero's command will better serve to ferry troops between Sicilia and the mainland.

It is also a very long and dangerous journey to Mastia by sea, and experienced sailors will be required to ensure that Hasdrubal's reinforcements arrive safely.

I leave you to dwell on these, and invite all opinions. I am interested in hearing from the Governors from the lands which are so hotly debated. North Africa is well represented here. Has Hasdrubal not arrived?

*the Governor of Kart-Hadast takes his seat, bewildered by the apparent lack of governor concern*

[Boru]

I stand once again before you to officially announce my desire to be elected Sophet. I also want to make a statement regarding military action since we have two strong sides of where to go. I have talked about sicily and i have mentioned Africa. To me, both options seem very viable as of now i am split in the matter i await more talk on the subject.

[Spoofa]

If i may interrupt, I would like to also announce at this time my running for Shophet.


I am glad at least a few men are wise enough to see the worth of Syracusai, the money it shall bring into our empire would be worth 2, or even 3 provinces in southern North Africa.

[Boru]

After contemplating where our military should go I agree with Halmacar and Mago on taking the southern city of scilly. Also i think that our most experienced navy should be the one to stay afloat. I hope the rest of the council shall grant Halmacar what he needs in the endeavor since it was my gut instinct from the start! We must smash the Greeks out of that city and show them that they better not move against us. Because if they do they will suffer! Plus the spoils of taking that city are too great to ignore. I beseech the entire council to vote yes on proposal 1.20! We must also show the vile Romans that we mean business, how much i do detest Rome! Let us soon rally for Halmacar to take southern sicily!!!

[Malik of Sindh]

After contemplating where our military should go I agree with Halmacar and Mago on taking the southern city of scilly. Also i think that our most experienced navy should be the one to stay afloat. I hope the rest of the council shall grant Halmacar what he needs in the endeavor since it was my gut instinct from the start! We must smash the Greeks out of that city and show them that they better not move against us. Because if they do they will suffer! Plus the spoils of taking that city are too great to ignore. I beseech the entire council to vote yes on proposal 1.20! We must also show the vile Romans that we mean business, how much i do detest Rome! Let us soon rally for Halmacar to take southern sicily!!!

I completely agree on with these proposals too.The greek scum in sicily have defied as for too long!

[PershsNhpios]

What proposals do you support Senator?
Do you briskly stand, mutter to yourself and be seated again in my absence also?
Elaborate yourself, I know not even from what shore of our country you are come!

What has provoked Carthage to persecute against Rome?
I but mention the city within my walks in Kart-Hadast and the people here cannot save themselves from angered, insulting barks against their state!

If you all do thirst for war against these Roman men so readily, then why do you ask to reduce the defenses that neighbour them?
If we dismiss the garrisons of Corsica, and declare war on the republic of Rome, then are we not stupidly prone to a counter attack on Sardinia?

The province of Lepki does fully rejoice and support in any war conducted within the borders of Sicily.
War with the Iberian people, war with Rome, war with Numidia, is a senseless proceeding.
I was told that the manner of things were sedate here, and the council did linger upon items before proposing another, or censuring it.
But you are mostly here, in total oblivion to our economic status, and demanding war with whatever corner of our dominance you reside in.

Did we create this empire with the attitude of the savages we now reign over?
We are a people of wealthy trade and of refined culture, and yet if any were to stoop here to preside over our deliberations - it would appear that we all asked for conquest of the Earth itself!

No! Lepki will support no war except that which is necessary, and the only war that is necessary is that which invites us within Sicily.
The troops there, Hamalcar, will suffice for all engagements.
And when you are supping behind the walls of Syrakusai, then you will if necessary, by your conquest, purchase levies from Africa.

So it is generally agreed by all that Sicily is at least a domain which we must control absolutely.
Therefore we have the regiments assembled already which can come half-way to completing this task.
And we will, by necessity, because of your nonsensical aggression against Rome, keep and even strengthen our garrisons in Sardinia and Corsica.

And we will reduce those of Bocchoris, Ippone, and my own Lepki.
The towns of Iberia, as I have shown, should be not a battlefield, but a requirement for more levies.

Lastly, I think that by creating the company of levies I have proposed, we will counter any unexpected threat in Africa, and can suffice Gisgo's selfish requests for war in the homeland in addition.
When we find confidence in such a company, we may, I think, recruit it further - so that we have a field army in defense of our Africa!

These are our military issues, and they are many, perhaps too numerous!
So do not add to them for your own personal cravings, let us find more importance in civil matters.

We have been chosen here by the Carthaginians to lead them in all directions and circumstances - but do not make all directions a warpath and all circumstances a battle!

[EasternScourge]

*A senator stands up to speak*

Fellow senators and countrymen of Karthadastim you have spoken wise in these meetings.Know that I wholly support Hamalcar in his plans of conquest of the Greek scourge in Syrakousai.The city lies waiting to be opened like a clam with a valuable pearl.Anything and everthing must be done to capture the city to gain its riches and increase our foothold on the island,in case of future conflict with the Romanii.

However,we are not just a nation of warmongers.Karthadastim is also one of traders and so we should act accordingly and increase our number of trade ports.Along with increasing our foreign trade,roads should be built in the provices that need them so as to keep the veins of trade clear and open for our merchants.As for the fleets,I support the propasal of disbanding all but those of our most experienced captains,which I believe is Admiral Thero.

Know then,my last point of speech deals with these questions concerning Iberia.In my view we should hold off on any expansive plans in these lands and focus on defense and building up the lands we already have there.Going on the warpath would just distract our resources from Sicily,and potentially the more threatening Romanii.

*sits back down*

[Bootsiuv]

The Governor from Lepki speaks good words. Clean words.

The words of a man who is frightened by the very lions he keeps along his bedside!!

I will not support complacence in Iberia!! The tribes must be brought under the control of the Qarthadastim!!

*Mago glares at Hanno, eagerly awaiting the Governors response, as sweat clearly forms over his brow*

[PershsNhpios]

Then with what would you cast us into a feud with the Iberian tribes, Mago?
Is there really a sensible reason for the conducting of a war in this region?

Or do you simply want a new breed of slaves to stand at the entrance to your palace and giggle at your pathetic jokes?
Like many others here Mago you have an interest in a war of your own personal belief.
But we are not here to celebrate or indulge our own personal beliefs!

We are here together to furnish one belief - those of the Carthaginian people!

Therefore if you all would have war in all lands, then let Mago take the west into a war with Iberia, let him call it West Carthago, let Hamilcar take Sicily for himself and rule it alone, and I shall take a war against the Ptolemaic dynasty and call myself the Eastern Kingdom of Lepki!

Is this the future you want for us Mago?
For we are already this divided and it is through greed that this is done, if you savour the taste of our great empire, and wish it to grow - may you all stop this frivolous, bloodthirsty attitude immediately!

[Spoofa]

I agree with Mago, but only after we have secured the island of Sicily and have convinced the people to the west of us in africa to join our empire, and when we have expanded at least a bit inland can we focus on iberia.

[Bootsiuv]

*Mago stands to address Hanno*

My dear governor from the east, you fail to see that we have reports of a Turdetanian army numbering over 1000 men encroaching on the lands near Gader.

I would also like to point out that I am not endorsing war in North Africa, nor have I made any proposals which directly affect my state.

I am simply well aware that we need the precious metals which are now in danger of being siezed by a large field army of angry natives!!

Will you let the empire forfeit such resources without a second thought, while you speak of economic upgrades in your own state?

No, dear sir, it is not I who have endeavored war for personal reasons....all of my proposals thus far have affected the empire as a whole.

May I remind you that it was you that thought your beloved Lepki and the deserts surrounding it recieve top priority for economic upgrades.

No, dear sir, I wish to be the anchor which this empire is tied to, and I will never make a decision which adversely affects another part of our realm!!

*Mago sits down, slightly shaken from the fierce debate, but ready to defend his position to the end*