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Thread: The 21st Century Satan

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    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default The 21st Century Satan

    I know what most of you will say, but this is closest to my view of this century. Part of me can't wait for the coming global race war. It will be a doozy that I think we will lose. The other part of me is utterly interested and concerned to see how this plays out.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Why China is the REAL master of the universe
    By ANTHONY BROWNE - More by this author » Last updated at 23:18pm on 11th April 2008
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    Cecil Rhodes, the businessman-imperialist of Africa, the creator of Rhodesia, suffered no flicker of doubt about who were the masters.

    "To be born an Englishman," he mused, "Is to win first prize in the lottery of life."

    It wasn't idle boasting. In the jingoistic triumphalism of the late 19th century, when waving the Union Jack was a simple pleasure, people sang: "Rule Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves" without any irony. It was a statement of fact.

    A quarter of mankind lived under the British flag in the largest empire the world had ever known.

    And many of those parts that weren't under Britain's rule - such as the U.S. - had been created by Britain.

    British missionaries had opened up the Dark Continent almost unchallenged.

    The British Army found it easier to invade troublesome nations - or most of them - than it does nowadays.

    Britain was the workshop of the world, dominating science, manufacturing and trade.

    To many Victorians, unquestioning of the ideology that underpinned much imperialism, British supremacy was a simple matter of racial supremacy - Europeans, and the English in particular, were fated to be the masters.

    The truth is that we are masters of the world no more.

    The global power shift from the West to the East is no longer just a matter of debate confined to learned journals and newspaper columns - it is a reality that is beginning to have a huge impact on our daily lives.

    What would those Victorian masters of old have made of the fact that Chinese security men were on the streets of London this week, ordering our own police about and fighting running battles with British protesters while bewildered athletes carried the Olympic torch on its relay through the capital?

    It was a brazen display of how confident China has become of its new place in the world, just as the British Government's failure to take a firm stand on Chinese abuses of human rights shows how craven we have become.

    The dire warnings from the International Monetary Fund this week that the West now faces the largest financial shock since the Great Depression, while the Asian economies are still powering ahead, simply underlines our vulnerability in this new world order.

    The desperately weakened American dollar appears to be on the verge of losing its global dominance, in the same way as sterling lost it a lifetime ago.

    The credit crunch has brought home to all of us in Britain how over-reliant our country has become on financial services. Meanwhile, the loss of our manufacturing industries to Asia continues unabated.

    Last month, an Indian company, Tata, bought up what was once the cream of British manufacturing - Jaguar and Land Rover.

    A couple of years ago, Nanjing Automotive, a Chinese company, snapped up MG Rover.

    Just as the 19th century was the British century, and the 20th century was the American century, the 21st century is the Asian century.

    But the handover of global power from the UK to the U.S. was trivial compared to what is happening now.

    The U.S. was Britain's offspring, based on the same values and the same language.

    It, too, was an Anglo-Saxon country, and passing the baton across the Atlantic ensured the continuation of the Anglo-Saxon world order, based on democracy, free trade and a belief in human rights, upheld through international institutions that both powers supported.

    But the world order we have grown used to - and comfortable with - over the last century is coming to an end.

    Napoleon III compared China to a sleeping giant and warned: "When China awakes, she will shake the world."

    After a long hibernation, China, and her 1.3 billion people - twice the population of the U.S. and EU combined - is awaking almost overnight.

    And not just China. The world's second most populous country, India, is industrialising at a historically unprecedented pace.

    Their economies are growing on a long-term basis about four times the speed of the UK's and that of the United States. Goldman Sachs, the bank, recently predicted that by 2050, China and India would have overtaken the U.S. to be the world's first and second biggest economies.

    We have long heard about the benefits this brings, in terms of plentiful cheap goods from toys to TVs, and huge opportunities for Western companies to sell their wares in these booming markets.

    But there are also downsides, which are becoming more apparent. Unskilled workers in the West have become unsettled by the threat to their jobs as production moves East.

    The most vulnerable Western workers have found their wages stagnate as they struggle to compete in an increasingly global market place.

    And competition for raw materials is pitting East against West.

    The economic explosion of China, and to a lesser extent India, has given them an almost overpowering hunger for raw materials with which to build their factories, homes and cars.

    Wherever you turn, the rise of Asia is making its impact felt on our existence.

    Every time you complain about the price of petrol being over £1 a litre, it is to the Far East you have to look to find the culprits.

    There are even reports that manholes in Britain have been disappearing to feed the monstrous appetite for scrap steel in the other side of the world.

    China is spending 35 times as much on crude oil as it did eight years ago, and 23 times as much on copper.

    As it builds gleaming skyscrapers on its fields, China alone consumes half the world's cement and a third of its steel.

    What is happening is so extraordinary that economists have had to invent a new word for it - this is not an economic cycle, but a supercycle, a shift in the world economy of historic proportions.

    When demand increases and supply stands still, prices shoot up. Iron, wheat and oil are all at record prices, despite slackening demand in the faltering Western economies.

    The cost of living in Britain is now rising faster than wages, making the British on average poorer year on year.

    Asia's expansion means that its influence is starting to be felt more directly around the world.

    Asian countries are not just buying up foreign raw materials, but as their companies try to become global leaders, they are buying up Western companies.

    It is not just Land Rover, Jaguar and MG Rover. The Malaysian company Proton owns Lotus. Indian company Tata owns Corus, once British Steel, as well as Tetley Tea.

    The hunger for raw materials is also making China lose its shyness and venture out into the world. Like Germany and Russia, China has traditionally been a land empire, focusing its expansionist energies on countries it had borders with, and it eschewed the world-conquering exploits of Europe's sea-faring maritime nations.

    Europeans have, for half a millennium, been unchallenged as the global colonisers, but last month the respected Economist magazine dubbed the Chinese "The New Colonists".

    While the Congo in central Africa was once over-run by Belgians, it is now the Chinese that can be found wondering around its mining belts.

    In Lubumbashi, the capital of the Congo's copper-rich region Katanga, the Economist reported "a sudden Chinese invasion".

    Troubled Angola recently shunned Western financial aid because of the amount of Chinese money pouring into it, in return for commodities.

    From Kazakhstan to Indonesia to Latin America, Chinese firms are gobbling up oil, gas, coal and metals.

    Canadian authorities were recently alarmed to find the Chinese interested in exploring the Arctic Ocean, in a bid to get a share of the minerals beneath the thawing icecap.

    In eastern Siberia, Russians worry that China is by default taking over their empty land.

    The West has long seen Africa as its backyard, but Western diplomats now worry that not just Africa, but South America, too, is being lost to China.

    And Western governments are concerned that the rules of the game are changing. Most worryingly, as China's brutal suppression of the once independent Tibet shows, this is not a superpower that respects Western standards on human rights.

    From Darfur to Myanmar, China is cuddling up to murderous dictators.

    At home, it holds mass executions of criminals with bullets in the back of the head while transplant surgeons stand by to harvest their still pulsating organs.

    Yet Western governments have been in such awe of China's looming power that their response has not been to challenge its abuses, but to try to silence their own protesters at home.

    From the UN to the IMF to the World Bank, the international institutions that attempt to govern the planet were made in the image of the victors of World War II. Now power is shifting from West to East, the whole liberal democratic world order will face its first serious challenge in decades.

    Many fear that things could get ugly.

    There is only one thing worse than an unchallenged superpower - it is a superpower with a victim mentality, which feels the world owes it a favour.

    And the bitter truth is that, after centuries of humiliation in foreign affairs, there is a nationalist mood in China that the country's time has come again, that it can again claim its rightful place as the world's most powerful country.

    Its comparative weakness over the last few centuries is, in fact, but a blip in the last 2,000 years, during which China was the world's most economically and culturally advanced nation.

    It is an accident of history that Europeans took advantage of their window of opportunity in the last half of the second millennium to take over the world.

    The cause was a combination of factors such as the development of maritime technology in Europe, the competition between European countries that drove them to look outwards and find new ways to increase prosperity, and the fact China remained firmly locked in its agrarian, introspective past.

    Now things have changed, and already the shift in the world economy is starting to have dramatic effects on migration patterns.

    The emigration of poor people from China and India to the West is slowing down, as their citizens see more hope in their own rapidly advancing nations.

    Instead, their expanding middle classes are paying large fees for their children to enjoy a Western university education, before returning home.

    There are now 60,000 Chinese students in Britain, more than from any other country.

    Westerners have become accustomed to being the only tourists in the world's tourist hotspots, but the Chinese and Indians want to enjoy the fruits of their labour by expanding their horizons, too.

    Chinese tourists are likely to replace American tourists as popular irritants in Britain, and replace the Germans as competitors for the ski lifts.

    As the opportunities flow from West to East, so too do the people.

    India is luring the global Indian diaspora back, with laws that would be judged racist in Britain, offering visas to anyone living in the West with Indian blood in their veins.

    Even some non-Indian Westerners are heading East for opportunities greater than they find at home.

    The West's cultural supremacy is likely to be as challenged as its economic supremacy.

    As their economic confidence grows, Asians are discovering pride in their own cultures and are less inclined to mimic Western ones.

    There is an infectious confidence in Bollywood, and the price of Chinese antiques is rocketing as the newly rich Chinese decide they want a slice of their history. Western culture, like the dollar, will soon find its heyday behind it.

    But Western attitudes will change as well, with a likely shift to the political Right. White liberal guilt, the driving force behind political correctness, will subside as Westerners feel threatened by the global order changing, and their supremacy slipping away.

    Anti-Americanism will disappear as Europeans realise how much better it was to have a world super power that was a democracy (however flawed) not a dictatorship.

    There is even speculation that the intense economic pressure on countries such as Britain will cause them to trim down their bloated welfare state, simply because it will no longer be affordable at present levels.

    Western attitudes of superiority to China and the rest of the East will also subside, as Westerners realise they are no longer the masters of the world.

    The U.S. company Orient Express complained when Tata tried to buy it, that any association with the Indian company would damage the Orient Express's premium brand.

    Responding, R K Krishna Kumar, a senior Tata executive, thundered that "Indian companies ... will take their rightful place in the international arena.

    "Enterprises and individuals must recognise and adapt to these fundamental economic changes. We believe that those with a fossilised frame of mind risk being marginalised."

    In a world in which we are no longer masters, it is a warning that we ignore at our peril.
    Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 04-12-2008 at 01:00.
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
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  2. #2
    Oni Member Samurai Waki's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 21st Century Satan

    "I'm not afraid!"

    "Bors, Chop it's head off!!"

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    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 21st Century Satan

    What coming global race war ?
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

    -Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

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    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 21st Century Satan

    Quote Originally Posted by Watchman
    What coming global race war ?
    Oh, you don't know? You're in for a shocker
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
    -Eric "George Orwell" Blair

    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
    (Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
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  5. #5
    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 21st Century Satan

    I must've missed the schedule announcement. Care to enlighten me ?
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

    -Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

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    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 21st Century Satan

    Yea - people are going to just start killing each other one day. In the streets.
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
    -Eric "George Orwell" Blair

    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
    (Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
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    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 21st Century Satan

    What's that, the T-virus ?
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

    -Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

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    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 21st Century Satan

    Quote Originally Posted by Watchman
    What's that, the T-virus ?
    Yes. Only a way more racist version.
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
    -Eric "George Orwell" Blair

    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
    (Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
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    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 21st Century Satan

    Oh. So who stands in for Umbrella, Inc. ?
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

    -Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

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    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 21st Century Satan

    Quote Originally Posted by Watchman
    Oh. So who stands in for Umbrella, Inc. ?
    China. In conjunction with the full cast of zoobalyzoo.
    Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 04-12-2008 at 03:40.
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
    -Eric "George Orwell" Blair

    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
    (Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
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    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 21st Century Satan

    "The coming global race war"? Dude, that's so sixties.

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    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 21st Century Satan

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    "The coming global race war"? Dude, that's so sixties.
    the 2060's
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    *zing
    Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 04-12-2008 at 03:41.
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
    -Eric "George Orwell" Blair

    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
    (Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 21st Century Satan

    Quote Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff
    China. In conjunction with the full cast of zoobalyzoo.
    And you base this on what exactly ?
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

    -Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

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    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Watchman
    And you base this on what exactly ?
    a terrible case of hemorrhoids. They are turning blue and giving me vivid hallucinations of the future and the nature of Jesus Christ.
    Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 04-12-2008 at 03:43.
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
    -Eric "George Orwell" Blair

    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
    (Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
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    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 21st Century Satan

    Why am I not surprised ?
    Probably because the whole thing sounded like being pretty well in the Tinfoil Hat zone from the start, with some good old Yellow Peril and suspiciously archaic-looking terminology thrown in for good measure...
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

    -Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

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    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 21st Century Satan

    Quote Originally Posted by Watchman
    Why am I not surprised ?
    Probably because the whole thing sounded like being pretty well in the Tinfoil Hat zone from the start, with some good old Yellow Peril and suspiciously archaic-looking terminology thrown in for good measure...
    No, the article is straight-up legit.
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
    -Eric "George Orwell" Blair

    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
    (Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
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    Kanto Kanrei Member Marshal Murat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 21st Century Satan

    It's basic economics really. China and India can whore her population out to create cheap stuff, use the money to absorb raw materials from Chile to Congo, and buy out other companies. I think he has a good point in that Western nations can't really compete for materials without being just as ruthless as China, and the Chinese have an entitlement complex. So the competition for resources will probably be something along the lines of proxy wars for control of governments and resources.
    "Nietzsche is dead" - God

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    Have you just been dumped?

    I ask because it's usually something like that which causes outbursts like this, needless to say I dissagree completely.

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    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marshal Murat
    It's basic economics really. China and India can whore her population out to create cheap stuff, use the money to absorb raw materials from Chile to Congo, and buy out other companies. I think he has a good point in that Western nations can't really compete for materials without being just as ruthless as China, and the Chinese have an entitlement complex. So the competition for resources will probably be something along the lines of proxy wars for control of governments and resources.
    Absolutely. I think the century (and a half) of human rights is ending. We have seen the begging of the ebb towards selfish, economy-centric nationalism again. Unless China sees the civil war that has been predicted for 50 years (and isn't going to happen)

    BTW - the United States economy is overvalued. We are starting to see the rotten fruits of overvaluing it for so long.

    We have ignorant, lazy workers who expect the best and produce crap. Juxtapose this with other countries who have ignorant, less lazy workers who expect the least and produce more crap. Plus there are tripple the amount of those workers.

    Our children are going to 8-10 years of school to understand their sexuality and feelings. They ridicule work because they have no understanding of it.

    What do you get? A failed U.S. economy. We have no niche - Europe has luxury because of its archaic geography. We used to have manufacturing prowess and created good products cheaper. Now China produces comparable products even cheaper than we ever could. What is the United States? What is our niche?
    Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 04-12-2008 at 04:14.
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
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    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
    (Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
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    Evil Sadist Member discovery1's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 21st Century Satan

    Quote Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff
    What is our niche?
    How about ridiculously advanced technology? Aerospace, medical, etc? Course, I would be one of the people building it.


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    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 21st Century Satan

    Disco, I honestly thought he was kidding. TuffStuff, the future of America is bright, my man. Don't let the doom-sayers getcha down.

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    Default Re: The 21st Century Satan

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    Disco, I honestly thought he was kidding. TuffStuff, the future of America is bright, my man. Don't let the doom-sayers getcha down.
    Can I please have an opinion as to why?
    Why is this no defferent than believing Al Gore?
    It's fact right? Proved by economics?

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    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 21st Century Satan

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    Disco, I honestly thought he was kidding. TuffStuff, the future of America is bright, my man. Don't let the doom-sayers getcha down.
    Lemur-no offense, but I don't see it. I see a dearth of insight in my generation. It's like the well dried up. We expect quite a bit, but nobody does anything other than service jobs. Really poorly to boot. We arn't the working poor either. Motivation is either dead or misguided.

    Maybe Wisconsin is different.
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
    -Eric "George Orwell" Blair

    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
    (Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

  23. #23
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 21st Century Satan

    Race war? Bah, if anything it'll be a religious war.

    CR
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

  24. #24
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 21st Century Satan

    Quote Originally Posted by Bopa the Magyar
    Can I please have an opinion as to why?
    Why is this no defferent than believing Al Gore?
    It's fact right? Proved by economics?
    Quote Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff
    Lemur-no offense, but I don't see it. I see a dearth of insight in my generation. [...] Motivation is either dead or misguided. Maybe Wisconsin is different.
    Who knew that suggesting America's future is bright would be so controversial?

    Let's look at some basics. America's greatest strength is our ability to re-invent ourselves. We're like Madonna, adjusting our economy and our persona every couple of years to better exploit the gay dance market, or in our nation's case, the world economy. But the gay dance market and the world economy aren't that different, really.

    I don't know how to respond to broad generalizations about "my generation" except to say that such talk is a constant, no matter what time period you examine, and it never means much of anything. I'm sure Napoleon's Hussars were peeved about how standards had slipped by 1816, and would grouse into the night about these new, soft little Hussars who barely deserved the name much less the uniform. Pick a time period, pick a subject, and there's going to be grumbling about how the new kids have it so much better than the old kids, and they're such brats, etc. etc. etc.

    So let's get back to America, and why we're gonna rock the 21st Century like a hurricane.

    Wanna get into software development? Better get your butt to the U.S.A. Wanna design any high-tech device worth talking about, whether it's an Intel chip, a 3G iPhone or a shiny new medical device? Better get to the U.S.A., kids. Wanna study aviation? Better learn the universal language, English, and study at one of our schools. Wanna get ahead on the internet tubes? Well, the best development is happening in the U.S.A.

    Wanna get next to the latest and greatest drugs and medical advances? You ain't gonna find them in Mumbai or New Delhi, friend. And forget about Shenzen. U.S.A., baby! And even the fields we've shamefully neglected, such as green power, are advancing faster here than elsewhere. Who's building the neatest and newest home fuel-cell devices? We are. Who's making the most efficient solar cells? We are.

    Nah, there's two things you can count on: (1) Things are usually getting better, and (2) people are saying things are getting worse.

    It's early days yet in the American Hegemony. We're not encumbered with an expensive empire (as were the Brits and the Romans), we're still vigorous and strong, and a long ways off from rotting from within (as with the Byzantines and the Ottoman Empire), and as soon as we can get our sandy buttocks out of Iraq, we'll start building goodwill amongst our friends and allies again.

    We are a great power, and we've the potential to become much greater. I laugh at those who say America's best days are behind her. Hang around, friend, and watch what happens. Things are going to be interesting in the best sense of the word.

  25. #25
    Bopa Member Incongruous's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 21st Century Satan

    Ok, thanks.
    How do you approach the growing economic crisis in the west?
    It is a crisis isn't it? I am not in sync with economics btw.

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    Now that the House of Commons is trying to become useful, it does a great deal of harm.
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  26. #26
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 21st Century Satan

    Quote Originally Posted by Bopa the Magyar
    How do you approach the growing economic crisis in the west?
    It is a crisis isn't it? I am not in sync with economics btw.
    Sure, it's a crisis, and a darn tricky one to address. Here's the broad-stroke summary:
    • Markets are very efficient, but they have inherent dangers
    • Governments attempt to regulate markets to moderate those dangers
    • Our credit market went kablooey in a big way, and some of the worst-behaved bits were the most-regulated
    • Conversely, some of the better-functioning bits were some of the least-regulated (hedge funds, anyone?)
    • Just to complicated matters, the Bush Admin. has made a point of downplaying all regulation, and generally setting the pythons to watch the snake house, which makes it even harder to tell where the regulation failed versus where the regulators failed versus where the market failed versus ...

    So ...

    Cleaning up this current credit mess will be an interesting task. But it's hardly the end of civilization as we know it.

  27. #27
    boy of DESTINY Senior Member Big_John's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 21st Century Satan

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    Don't let the doom-sayers getcha down.
    uhh.. did you just tell Tuff to assume some sort of optimism? mmm.. he don't roll like that.
    now i'm here, and history is vindicated.

  28. #28
    Come to daddy Member Geoffrey S's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 21st Century Satan

    Just can't stop attacking wind-powered spinning things?
    "The facts of history cannot be purely objective, since they become facts of history only in virtue of the significance attached to them by the historian." E.H. Carr

  29. #29
    Naughty Little Hippy Senior Member Tachikaze's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 21st Century Satan

    The death of the US will come from within, not without.


    Screw luxury; resist convenience.

  30. #30
    boy of DESTINY Senior Member Big_John's Avatar
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    Default Re: The 21st Century Satan

    Quote Originally Posted by Tachikaze
    The death of the US will come from within, not without.
    mtv?
    now i'm here, and history is vindicated.

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