Hoplite Spear Length

[TWFanatic]

Historically, how long were hoplite spears at different points throughout history?

It is my understanding that most "classical" hoplites used 8-foot spears. The Theban Sacred band used 12-foot spears which they wielded underarm with two hands. Phillip II of Macedon created the 18 foot sarrissa, which was carried by soldiers of the Macedonian phalanx.

I am curious why the Spartans and classical hoplites in EB carry what look like approximately 12-foot spears. Did they finally break from tradition?

[pezhetairoi]

They carry 12-foot spears, but if you notice, once they level them overarm to fight, the spears miraculously shorten themselves... o.O

[CBR]

Classic hoplites used spears of around 7-8 feet perhaps even 9 feet. That seems to be the average length for most one handed spears throughout history.

I dont think there are any sources about spear length nor two handed use for the Sacred Band so they most likely used the same.


CBR

[NeoSpartan]

Historically, how long were hoplite spears at different points throughout history?

It is my understanding that most "classical" hoplites used 8-foot spears. The Theban Sacred band used 12-foot spears which they wielded underarm with two hands. Phillip II of Macedon created the 18 foot sarrissa, which was carried by soldiers of the Macedonian phalanx.

I am curious why the Spartans and classical hoplites in EB carry what look like approximately 12-foot spears. Did they finally break from tradition?

no way dude.... in EB the spear spartans carry is no 12' long.

now the 12' long spear u refer to is probably that brought by the reforms of Iphicraptides (sp) who came up the idea of a 2 hand pike and with light "peltalt" shield. Not all greeks liked it, let alone the super conservative Spartans... but Phillip II took this idea and RAN with it, result: 18'-20' pikes

[Watchman]

Yeah, 12' would be the Iphikratean "proto-pike" whose one major point was just getting a clear reach advantage over the regular 8' doru. Mind you, given that it was used in formation it was probably manageable one-handed - if horsemen can manage four-meter lances with one hand, I don't see why infantrymen couldn't so long as they don't have to do anything too fancy with them. ("Thrust. Recoil. Thrust. Repeat as long as necessary.")

[geala]

I would be interested in the source about the Theban Sacred Band using a 12 foot dory. Never heard of it.

The RTW/EB dory is certainly too long, compared to the height of the men, when carried over the shoulder. There must be a rational reason for this however, perhaps something hardcoded?

I doubt that a 12 foot spear is managable in one hand in a close formation. A cavalryman can handle it by placing his hand towards the point of gravity. In this case a lot of wood would disturb the back rows of a close infantry formation. The later sarissai were therefore held at one side, not near the point of gravity, and I saw how difficult and exhausting it is to wield a long spear even with two hands when I watched people training with sarissai.

[keravnos]

no way dude.... in EB the spear spartans carry is no 12' long.

now the 12' long spear u refer to is probably that brought by the reforms of Iphicraptides (sp) who came up the idea of a 2 hand pike and with light "peltalt" shield. Not all greeks liked it, let alone the super conservative Spartans... but Phillip II took this idea and RAN with it, result: 18'-20' pikes

Actually the first greek to use pikes was Iason or Jason of Thessaly (Pherres). As a "Tagos" (how the Thessalians called their leader) he had great designs on both Greece and Persia but was murdered. Phillipos then took his concept and ran with it.

[Watchman]

You sure that wasn't a cavalry lance though, given the equestrian focus of the Thessalians ?

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

Just a crazy question, but has anyone ever tried to carry a sarissa while mounted on a horse? Without stirrups?

[Watchman]

Alex had one Prodromoi squadron specifically called sarissaphoroi, which may well have been an experiment in the combination. Didn't stick past that one apparently though.

By what I've read it has in fact been tested empirically and found basically functional if not exactly comfortable or convenient, and the extraction of a spear that long after a thrust apparently requires a whole lot of sideways space making it a definite no-go for close-order cavalry.

[TWFanatic]

("Thrust. Recoil. Thrust. Repeat as long as necessary.")

Ooh, is that innuendo?

The RTW/EB dory is certainly too long, compared to the height of the men, when carried over the shoulder. There must be a rational reason for this however, perhaps something hardcoded?

Indeed, that's what I thought. And no, it isn't hardcoded. You can give hoplites the "short_spear" attribute, which not only makes the spear approx. 9 ft. long, but also gives the hoplites a cohesive formation which can charge and face in the right direction and actually fight and push (particularly when combined with "spear" trait) while maintaining formation, something impossible in EB unless u tweak it just a bit...

I'm actually making a mod for EB that will edit phalanxes so they can do these things.

[NeoSpartan]

Its not too long fellas... the hoplites are probably 5'5" or 5'8" AT MOST. So the spear still has another 2'+" after thier head (butt of the spear on the ground, lift the spear of the ground it will be up even higher)

[Rodion Romanovich]

The size doesn't matter, it's how you use it

[MiniMe]

The size doesn't matter, it's how you use it

The size does matter =)

[Rodion Romanovich]

Don't forget, the force of the thrust also matters...

[bovi]

It's meters per second.