Fanatic’s First Cohort/Phalanx/Elephant/Chariot minimod

[icydawgfish]

Is this compatable w/the city mod? I assume it would be, but I'm just double checking.

[TWFanatic]

Is this compatable w/the city mod? I assume it would be, but I'm just double checking.

No, because both have different EDB files. I suppose it would be simple enough to edit that file then upload it though...
Atm, the city mod's download link is broken. When it's fixed, I'll download it, edit it, then upload a second EDB file for people who want to use both the city mod and this mod.

As for the "naming legions" ability, I'll try to make that work as soon as I get my home computer (which has all my gaming stuff on it) back from the shop.

[Intranetusa]

Great!

Crap, I was looking at a sarrissa phalanx and not the classical phalanx...I still have that problem with hoplites even with defend turned off...>.<

[TWFanatic]

I'm very sorry, but there's nothing I can do. This mod is working for me and everyone else, so I can only assume that you made some mistake during the installation. I hope you can fix it, but if not, perhaps you could just uninstall. Good luck!

[Charge]

@Intranetusa
Check EDU entry for that unit and ensure it have
stat_pri_attr ........... light_spear, short_pike
attribute. If not -> files not overwriten..

camillan triarii

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

type roman infantry triarii early
dictionary roman_infantry_triarii_early ; Triarii
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type General_1
soldier roman_infantry_triariiearly, 40, 0, 1.22
officer ebofficer_roman_early_centurion
officer ebofficer_roman_early_standard
mount_effect elephant -1
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap
formation 0.9, 1.1, 2, 2.4, 4, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 13, 10, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.13
stat_pri_attr light_spear, short_pike
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 0 ,0.1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 11, 9, 7, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 4
stat_ground 0, 0, -3, -2
stat_mental 13, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 2268, 567, 50, 697, 2268
ownership seleucid, slave

before:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

type roman infantry triarii early
dictionary roman_infantry_triarii_early ; Triarii
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type General_1
soldier roman_infantry_triariiearly, 40, 0, 1.22
officer ebofficer_roman_early_centurion
officer ebofficer_roman_early_standard
mount_effect elephant -1
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap
formation 0.9, 1.1, 2, 2.4, 4, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 15, 8, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.13
stat_pri_attr light_spear
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 0 ,0.1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 12, 9, 4, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 4
stat_ground 0, 0, -3, -2
stat_mental 13, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 2268, 567, 50, 697, 2268
ownership seleucid

[Intranetusa]

@Intranetusa
Check EDU entry for that unit and ensure it have
stat_pri_attr ........... light_spear, short_pike
attribute. If not -> files not overwriten..

camillan triarii

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

type roman infantry triarii early
dictionary roman_infantry_triarii_early ; Triarii
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type General_1
soldier roman_infantry_triariiearly, 40, 0, 1.22
officer ebofficer_roman_early_centurion
officer ebofficer_roman_early_standard
mount_effect elephant -1
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap
formation 0.9, 1.1, 2, 2.4, 4, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 13, 10, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.13
stat_pri_attr light_spear, short_pike
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 0 ,0.1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 11, 9, 7, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 4
stat_ground 0, 0, -3, -2
stat_mental 13, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 2268, 567, 50, 697, 2268
ownership seleucid, slave

before:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

type roman infantry triarii early
dictionary roman_infantry_triarii_early ; Triarii
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type General_1
soldier roman_infantry_triariiearly, 40, 0, 1.22
officer ebofficer_roman_early_centurion
officer ebofficer_roman_early_standard
mount_effect elephant -1
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap
formation 0.9, 1.1, 2, 2.4, 4, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 15, 8, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.13
stat_pri_attr light_spear
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 0 ,0.1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 12, 9, 4, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 4
stat_ground 0, 0, -3, -2
stat_mental 13, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 2268, 567, 50, 697, 2268
ownership seleucid

Yeh, that's exactly what I have...weird. Maybe I need to start a new game :/


No problem TWfanatic, I'll work it out somehow.

[Intranetusa]

I just realized I named my EB folder incorrectly and have been playing with another version of EB copied into my vanilla RTW folder...silly me.

Problem fixed, thxs ppl

[TWFanatic]

Yay!

So, is everyone enjoying this mod? Anything that needs to be improved upon? Elephants or chariots too weak or powerful?

[LusitanianWolf]

I have downloaded it and played an while:
The new hoplite formation is so cool!!!!
And now AI elephants and chariots arent useless anymore while still being beatable even with i'm playing with them. Balance
And I still have to try teh 1st coorts and the aquilifer and play more.

Thanks TWF and everyone that helped in this mod!!!!!!!

[Marcus Publius]

Very nice mini mod and i hope you will make it compatable with city mod

[Mr Durian]

Yay!

So, is everyone enjoying this mod? Anything that needs to be improved upon? Elephants or chariots too weak or powerful?

Hey thanks for the mod. Its working for me now and its fantastic. I love how the hoplites fight in compact tight formation


But I also noticed (but this could be just me) the result is they are a bit over strengthened. Have they been given severe penalties when flanked. I realized they are still deadly even when sandwiched by several units, which makes me think that since they are now more tightly formed it would be difficult to use those long spears when flanked.

Another thing I noticed is that some of them attack with their spears pointing in the sky but thats not really important.

Cheers for the mod

[Admetos]

Seeing as I'm so lazy and don't want to wait for a version compatible with the City Mod, I take it just copying the Roman MIC section from the First Cohort edb over the Roman MIC section in the City Mod edb would make them compatible?

[Spoofa]

you would lose the entire take away pop growth from some buildings and add law boni to others and such.

but sure.


@TWFanatic, your mod looks interesting now that ive seen that SS That mr.durian posted, I might try it once u get a citymod compatible version.

[Admetos]

You mean Roman MICs give population growth and law bonuses?

[Charge]

@Admetos
Find any First cohorts' recruitment lines in it's edb and past in the same places in city mod's. All should be working..

recruit "roman infantry legionary first cohort i" 0 requires factions { seleucid, } and hidden_resource SW and hidden_resource B and hidden_resource y1 and hidden_resource y2 and hidden_resource y4 and hidden_resource n8

EDIT: eh, also praetorian cavalry entry should be removed..

[TWFanatic]

But I also noticed (but this could be just me) the result is they are a bit over strengthened. Have they been given severe penalties when flanked. I realized they are still deadly even when sandwiched by several units, which makes me think that since they are now more tightly formed it would be difficult to use those long spears when flanked.

Head on, they are slightly better now thanks to shield stat (but this bonus is kept in check by lower armor and attack). When flanked (particularly by cavalry), they fight slightly worse than before. They are also slightly more vulnerable to missiles in the rear. These are my conclusions, taken from many tests.

Another thing I noticed is that some of them attack with their spears pointing in the sky but that’s not really important.

Yes, the rear ranks now point their spears upwards rather than stabbing their mates in the back. The occasional odd hoplite attacking with his spear in that manner is the price you must pay for the short_pike attribute. There is nothing I can do about it. Fortunately, they rarely do this unless flanked (and the rear ranks turn around to fight).

EDB file for those with city mod has been uploaded - check first post.

And thanks for helping Charge. :)

[TWFanatic]

I made the mistake of uploading the City Mod Compatible EDB file without testing it first. I forgot to remove praetorian cavalry entery, as Charge mentions. But it's fixed now.

[lobf]

Well, I'm using the Camillan Roman Triaris, could that be a reason? (they don't have the short pike attribute?)

or is it because I installed BI & v1.6 but am playing on regular?

If you installed 1.6 and BI but aren't playing with BI, that could be your problem...

[Darth Stalin]

Hey, TWFanatic!
I've made a quick recheck of Your mod (well, set Roman Reforms to happen muuuch quicker :D ) and noticed that Imperial First Cohort is recruitable ONLY in Rome (just like Praetorian Cohort). Is that intentional or there's something wrong with EDU file?

[TWFanatic]

Hey, TWFanatic!
I've made a quick recheck of Your mod (well, set Roman Reforms to happen muuuch quicker :D ) and noticed that Imperial First Cohort is recruitable ONLY in Rome (just like Praetorian Cohort). Is that intentional or there's something wrong with EDU file?

It is intentional. It's been that way with vanilla RTW and every single mod I've ever seen (including Cucnator's first cohort mod, so I assume it'll be like that in the next EB patch when they add first cohorts). The Eagles are made in Rome.

[Patriote]

Were any changes made to the Triarii?? both camillian and polybian

Thanks

[TWFanatic]

Camillan Triarii have received the same changes as all hoplites. Polybian Triarii haven't been touched.

[Intranetusa]

Been enjoying this mod :-)


I have two questions:

1. Are the Massilan Hoplites suppose to be in the hoplite formation? They have the word hoplite in their name but they don't have the short pike attribute.

2. How strong does the +3 shield bonus make the hoplites?
I just defeated 2 units of uber elite Gastarne naked infantry with 2 units of Camillian Triari Hoplites + 1 unit of principes.

Does this mean the hoplites' +3 shield bonus make them uber powerful? XD

[TWFanatic]

Been enjoying this mod :-)


I have two questions:

1. Are the Massilan Hoplites suppose to be in the hoplite formation? They have the word hoplite in their name but they don't have the short pike attribute.

2. How strong does the +3 shield bonus make the hoplites?
I just defeated 2 units of uber elite Gastarne naked infantry with 2 units of Camillian Triari Hoplites + 1 unit of principes.

Does this mean the hoplites' +3 shield bonus make them uber powerful? XD

1. Giving the short_pike attribute to units with two weapons (such as Massilian Hoplites) simply doesn't work. Try it to see why.

2. Quite strong - from the front in particular because of the shield bonus and new, tighter formation. Remember, though, they have a lower attack and armor rating. This means that they'll kill slower, though they are now even better "shock troops," and the best hoplites can break enemies with their charge (though this usually only happens against weaker militia or thin formations). But if you can stop their momentum and hold them, they're quite vulnerable to flanking. Spartans might fight even if they're surrounded and their formation is broken, but most hoplites will flee under these conditions. This is my experience, at least.

I almost forgot one more thing: Remember that the Gaestae have had their armor lowered from 5 to 3. So if you use the triarii to hold them and principes to go around to the rear and launch pila up their *ss, they have no chance (as long as they don't rout the triarii on the charge - they're excellent shock troops and heavy javelins can disorder formations).

[Leviathan DarklyCute]

I can't download this mod for some reason... can you plz upload the minimod again and the EDB file for city mod? on another site if you can?

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

Thank you, TWFanatic. One of the biggest troubles with hoplites before was their lack of tactical organization, especially out of guard mode.

[TWFanatic]

I can't download this mod for some reason... can you plz upload the minimod again and the EDB file for city mod? on another site if you can?

That'd odd...I just tried the links and they are not dead. I'll upload second links though ASAP. EDIT: Done.

And ty for the kind words Basileos!

[Leviathan DarklyCute]

that works! thanks

[Intranetusa]

1. Giving the short_pike attribute to units with two weapons (such as Massilian Hoplites) simply doesn't work. Try it to see why.

2. Quite strong - from the front in particular because of the shield bonus and new, tighter formation. Remember, though, they have a lower attack and armor rating. This means that they'll kill slower, though they are now even better "shock troops," and the best hoplites can break enemies with their charge (though this usually only happens against weaker militia or thin formations). But if you can stop their momentum and hold them, they're quite vulnerable to flanking. Spartans might fight even if they're surrounded and their formation is broken, but most hoplites will flee under these conditions. This is my experience, at least.

I almost forgot one more thing: Remember that the Gaestae have had their armor lowered from 5 to 3. So if you use the triarii to hold them and principes to go around to the rear and launch pila up their *ss, they have no chance (as long as they don't rout the triarii on the charge - they're excellent shock troops and heavy javelins can disorder formations).

Aight thanks...but my 2 triaris and principes defeated the Gastae head on without flanking (it was a narrow street-cty battle) XD

Super non-Sarrissa Hoplites FTW!!!

[Basileus Seleukeia]

Are the permanent and optional Eb-Fixes already included in this mod?