Favorite Units?

[sharpshooter]

Thanks for the welcome Caravel.

Ya, I do agree with what you say - the JHI are an uber unit that easily takes away the challenge.

There's a number of elite units I do like, but it's the underdog/lesser known selections that are the most interesting - and I do have a taste for the hybrids and auxilleries. Each unit has its time and a best way of using them, and its the phase of the game that often determines their effectiveness. Armour and valour can transform apparently mundane units.

Which leads me to the subject of this thread - no surprises that there's a few Turks there. I'm gonna lean to the Islamics, since they've not been as covered.

Turcoman Foot (TF) - fast, versatile, a good archer able to melee. I like the rabble formation somehow, and they stay in my Turk armies right the way through. Hard nuts when +2 out of Anatolia with an MB.

Bulgarian Brigands - similar to TF, I use them with Byzantine Cavalry in Byz armies in the same manner as TF/THA symbiosis I find in the Turks - shame the Byz don't have a fast spear unit. Unfortunately their build requirements (MB) are too high - they should be at Castle level, so don't get used as much as they should. They're great in deserts, too.

Crossbows (XBows) - underrated, and always in the shadow of Arbs. I didn't appreciate them until the Turks gave me no option since they don't get Arbs. They do a surprising amount of damage given time, and they're great on bridge defences. I put them out front against Horse Archers, especially the MHA, and against Jinetes. Even with Catholics I'm not in such a hurry for Arbs now. I've often killed over 100 with these in long battles.

Armenian Heavy Cavalry (AHC) - ok, an elite unit, with no need to say much about these. Simply the bomb when +2 from Armenia with the MHB.

Urban Militia +1 from Tuscany (TM) - the Italians secret weapon very early in the game.

Polish Retainers - another elite unit, only available to the Poles in High and Late. They're at their peak when the High period starts - you don't need to count the turns for the Royal courts to get built. Get an MHB first, (the AI rewards that with Acumen) and at +1 they're better than FK0's. They wilt a bit in the end game of High and in Late.

Mounted Crossbowmen - so easy to build, and so useful. Fast and versatile, and at their peak in Early and very early in the game. Pull enemy defensive and offensive positions apart, even if you're not doing much damage with them. Use them as light cavalry to run down the routers, and charge Archers with them. Snipe at the general, and uber units. Behind the defensive line as a missile unit they'll also kill over 100 in a long defensive battle.

Those 2 uber Kats that hang out in Greece? They'll retreat to the Castle at the sight of a single Mounted XBowman advancing while the rest of your army camp on a hill. Hire one for the job if you can't train them. Take them to Switzerland for the SAPs in Late.

Funny how you can have the mounted version 120 years before the foot version.

Muwahid Foot - another fast and versatile unit, with a brilliant charge, and good attack for spears. Able to pin knights for someone else to attack if you don't leave them too long at it. High morale (4) means they'll stick at the job, and be around even with 2/3 of the unit gone. Mangle Militia Sergeants and Feudal Sergeants with the charge - and if there's Ghazi or AUM nearby its all over in the local fight. Chase archers. Be the first to the top of the hill with this unit, and if you've got fast bows no one can push you off it. Confuse the enemy with a criss cross movement when advancing ...

Every Muslim army should have a couple - and they come into their own for the Turks (yes, again), filing up behind the TF and THA. Put them ahead of the Futs, and keep the Ghazi (also fast) wider and level with the Muw's.(Put the Futs and Ghazi on Hold Position to restrain them even when moving - both will charge Knights head on given the slightest opportunity). Have the AHC wide and level with the TF. Give everyone lots of space, with the Saracen Infantry, maybe only 1, at the bottom of a long loose V shape to protect the bows against cavalry charges. All wings and no centre, loose and fast - a killing machine! Get Turkish! Heh.

Get the Muwahids some decent armour and +1 from an MS, and watch them shine. Get sunglasses.

**********************************************************

There's lots more (can you tell I'm enthusiastic?) and ... errr ... the Ottoman Sipahi do have bows in vanilla, and dismount to TF for sieges. With Ottoman Foot (naturally the Sipahi are +1 from Edessa) they're another way to do the TF/THA thing, but a bit chunkier in keeping with the Late season.

Berber Camels - yes yes yes - take the time with them - use them to charge archers as well as flank cavalry. They can fire arrows when not doing anything else. Jinetes really don't like them, and find them hard to get around, being peppered with arrows as they try. Camel Warriors - yes yes yes - build that Fort in Syria and have a Bowyer just so you can armour them up while you build your spy centre. Throw them head on at those early unarmoured crusading RKs - flank the Kats, and demoralise the Mounted Sergeants to the point of desertion. Swat archers. Watch out for a few coming through with +3 for Pride.

I'm gonna give Vikings a bit more attention after their write up in this thread. I've been taking them for granted. (Did I mention Slav Warriors, especially the ones through the metalsmith in Bohemia? Look out for a couple with Pride with these, too)

Of course, I do like the elite units: Boyars, JHI, Huscarles, Varangians, Kats, Lancers - it's just a shame they have so little real opposition ... and I like the Halbs and Arbs that make the backbone of my High and Late catholic armies ... and the Pecheneg Cav that Gregori mentioned for the Byz in BKB's mod - fantastic, you can charge enemy archers across the front of their lines and they stand up in a fight ... and Swiss Pikemen - so strong before you get SAPs you wonder if you need them ... but I've surely said enough now, or even a few para's back ...

Heh.

Ok, enough. I greatly enjoyed reading the forum's selections. Good to bring this thread up like you did Sensei - it's one that should be dusted down every so often - regularly. Next time tell me I can only choose 1 favourite unit.

[sharpshooter]

*puts some ketchup on his words, trying to make them palatable to eat*

Oops - was I having a brain spasm?

Ottoman Sipahi don't have bows in Vanilla - or in VI. I was wrong (and Caravel, of course, was right). They do dismount to Turcoman Foot in sieges (why with bows dismounted and not mounted - maybe because there's no real Turk sword unit?)

Anyway ----- *munch* *munch*

[caravel]

Ottoman Sipahi do have compound bows in the Pocket Mod and are called "Timarli Sipahi". They're also a lot stronger but are only available in the late era and don't dismount to anything.

[predaturd]

my favourite unit is jinetes
theyre fast so they can chase down routers
good against armour (i think) so they can weaken men at arms quite well as well as sergeants and when theyve got a bit of valour can make for some awesome battlefield assassin units to kill the generals
decent in melee when charged into the flank or rear

main use of them from me is to go around the back of the enemy army and throw a few javelins at the generals units then retreat and have another unit or 2 come from the other side to throw into the rear again then when they tuirn around charge with the first lot 75% of the time it destroys the generals unit with minimul casualties and lets you get out leaveing the army to reeling while your charge of royal knights feudal men at arms and yet more jinetes (this time fresh) to mop up with

[caravel]

Jinetes themselves don't have an AP attack, it's the javelins that are AP. These are very effective against armoured units.

[predaturd]

yeah i ment the javelins had the armour piercing attack.
nothing beats a bit of spannish jinete spam coupled with some javelinmen and el cid with castilian title :)

[caravel]

Except maybe some AUM, Muwahid Foot and Murabitin Infantry.

Congratulations on promotion to member predaturd.

-Edit: And sharpshooter too.

[predaturd]

woohoo at last no more 5 minute wait :)

ill just charge your murabitin with jinetes pepper the aum with jinetes and pepper and flank the muwahid after :)

[bamff]

I have always held a fondness for Fyrdmen - a VERY useful spear unit in VI/early.

Also Celtic Warriors, once teched up and valored up can be quite amazing.

Jinetes, as has been noted by more than one, can be a very useful armour/AUM stopper. I had very little regard for them initially, but once I got to play with them a touch, found they can be a very dangerous unit on the field.

Beserkers are fun. One of my fave parts of my Pict VI campaign was to send a unit of beserkers into the flank/rear of any large enemy formation and watch to see if any bad guys survived to run away.

Pictish cav, Wallachian cav (XL), and Steppe cav are all very useful for disrupting an advancing enemy, hacking through unprotected archers, and running down the routers.

Turning the discussion around ever so slightly - some units that have really caused me some grief (and as a result I would love to one day have on my side) - Bashkorts...absolutely destroyed my beautiful mtd xbows...and anything else that got too close. What are they? Javelin men on steroids?....Vikings...I have watched in horror as they shredded royal knights that had charged their rear, and woe betide anything that had to hold their charge.

Cuman heavy cavalry were frighteningly difficult to stop as well...and, JHI's are one of the main reasons that I so often think to myself, gee I have to give the Turks a go some time....

[ULC]

My most hated unit would have to be HA (on the receiving end, of course). I have never mastered the fine art of catching the buggers, and nothing irritates me more then losing a battle to the Golden Horde or Turks because they only have HA.

[sharpshooter]

@ Predaturd and Caravel re Jinetes vs AUM

Berber Camels!

If I'm the Almos going against that horde of Jinetes the early Spanish use I take 3 -4 of these along - they stop the Jinetes going round the flanks (they take up so much space). The Jinetes seem to back off quickly when these guys amble into their space, pushing them back and away from the Almo infantry.

Jinetes are great, though. I look forward to getting them if I'm England or France, and don't have any mounted missiles from the start. I've got a special soft spot for the 2 star Jinetes that you get at the start of Aragon Late - he gets the Aragon title, and usually ends up with 8*.

[caravel]

Indeed a well balanced Almohad force will should easily be able to deal with any Castilian one until the high era, when the catholic factions really start to gain the edge over their muslim and orthodox neighbours.

[predaturd]

and if i decide to use jinetes to stop aum advances and move my army inch by inch closer so i can rain down some arrowry death at your camels then charge the rear with feudal knights?

[caravel]

While your amry is inching close the berber camels would already be on your flanks peppering your forces and destroying morale. Desert Archers would be returning fire onto your infantry and archers. Your Feudal Knights charge would be recieved my the Muwahids that are ideal gap pluggers. Murabitin would hit them with a volley of javelins and AUM would then be deployed onto their flanks, and finally the camels would charge them down from the rear and mop up the routers, making maximum use of the camels vs horses bonus, allowing the AUM to move on to tackling your infantry.

The Almohads, properly managed, are a highly effective force in the early era.

[predaturd]

and when i charge out my feudal knights when you attempt to peper me then charge my jinetes into your desert archers with some javelinmen peppering your muwahids and militia serjeants smashing into your aum what do you do then?

[gregori99]

my favourite unit is jinetes
theyre fast so they can chase down routers
good against armour (i think) so they can weaken men at arms quite well as well as sergeants and when theyve got a bit of valour can make for some awesome battlefield assassin units to kill the generals
decent in melee when charged into the flank or rear

main use of them from me is to go around the back of the enemy army and throw a few javelins at the generals units then retreat and have another unit or 2 come from the other side to throw into the rear again then when they tuirn around charge with the first lot 75% of the time it destroys the generals unit with minimul casualties and lets you get out leaveing the army to reeling while your charge of royal knights feudal men at arms and yet more jinetes (this time fresh) to mop up with

Jinettes are insanely brave but a unit of lowly archers backed by spears will beat them every time. Much better in the hands of a human player though.

I've taken a liking to Cuman Warriors, great bow unit but also pretty good in melee. In my latest campaign they stood firm against repeated charges by Mongol Heavies and defeated them. They had a couple of armour upgrades and high morale from shrines but I was still surprised how well they did.

[caravel]

and when i charge out my feudal knights when you attempt to peper me

AUM in held formaton will deploy forward to absorb the charge then switch back to engage at will once in melee. Muwahid and a Murabitin will hit the flanks and berber camels move to the rear to charge and clean up.

then charge my jinetes into your desert archers

As above, though you'll have difficulty as my desert archers tend to be under the watchful eye of my AUM and Muwahid units, who know only too well that they are, with the camels, their best hopes against the Jinetes.

with some javelinmen peppering your muwahids and militia serjeants smashing into your aum what do you do then?

Quickly deploy some Saharan Cavalry around onto the flanks of the MS and hold them there to trigger "worried about flanks" morale penalty, then move the Murabitin into position and hit the MS with a few javelin volleys to soften them up and drive the Saharan Cav home. Result: Morale disintegration and chain rout. The berbers whom should now be free will then volley and chase down the javelinmen.



Edit: -

Jinettes are insanely brave but a unit of lowly archers backed by spears will beat them every time. Much better in the hands of a human player though.

The AI is hopeless with Jinetes because it cannot turn off skirmish mode. Skirmish mode will always cause the unit to break off a split second before ready to throw javelins.

[Heidrek]

OK, this could be considered anm exploit, but does anyone else use Druzina Cavalry for the express purpose of dismounting them into a 60 man unit of Feudal Footknights?

I'm thinking of starting a game as Russia or Novgorod just so I can build these guys and use them as my staple Infantry.

[r johnson]

My favourite MTW xl units is the rare Angevin infantry purely for the novelty, there not desperatly great and the development is a pain, Before I tried NTW I kept building vast quantities of artillery in MTW, I like to soften the enemy before sending in my lads.

[predaturd]

someone please enlighten me to agevin infantry

[caravel]

They're a unit included in, unless I'm very much mistaken, the XL mod.

[seireikhaan]

Aye, they are in XL. They are only trainable by the English. A pretty good heavy infantry, but are rather hindered by ridiculous training requirements.(A county militia and a chapter house) Hence, when I use XL, I usually mod the requirements down to the next lowest militia building, so that they can actually be trained at a reasonable time.

[sharpshooter]

Ha - I think Predaturd as the Spanish and Caravel as the Almos should have an MP battle, and save the result for us all to see.

That would be entertaining.