Phalanx V-formation...exploit?

[The Internet]

If it's a sarissa phalanx, then the first row usually put the but into the ground to brace for a charge. Not to mention the horse is not going to go through the 5+ spear points poking at it.

There's reasons pike formations werent charge by even the heaviest of cavalry in any period from the front. A horse, a man, an anything will not willingly skewer itself on 5 pikes just so the person behind can get through. Keep in mind "push of pike" was called that, not becuase the spear could push. But becuase people would move back to avoid those spears.



A horse hit in the chest or in the shank, is not going to push forward. It's most likely going to stop.



The front rank of a phalanx is usually smashed in any charge. It might sound like a horrible way to die, but most confrontations between hoplite armies have men dieing standing up. Good reasons why the veterans were located in the back of the phalanx to push the others forward...

There's even acounts of shieldwall clashes having results like that. In the battle of hastings, Williams the Conquers cavalry charged the shield wall, again and again. Didnt dent it, yes the front rank were smashed, and a lot of mend died. But the cavalry were holy in capable of breaking the braced position until they finally broke rank and counter charged.

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[Pharnakes]

What?!

[The Internet]

What?!

Could you expand that question please?

[dominique]

Out of my head, and not an extensive research.

-Gaugamela
-Courtrai
-Bannockburn
-Pharsalus
-Falkirk
They all feature cavalry charge against pikes. And defeats.

Now, some were succesfull:
-Mons-en-Pévèle
-Cassel

But the best:
-Morgarten
-Morat

Feature pike charge AGAINST cavalry. And victories!

[The Internet]

Out of my head, and not an extensive research.

-Gaugamela
-Courtrai
-Bannockburn
-Pharsalus
-Falkirk
They all feature cavalry charge against pikes. And defeats.

Now, some were succesfull:
-Mons-en-Pévèle
-Cassel

But the best:
-Morgarten
-Morat

Feature pike charge AGAINST cavalry. And victories!

Indeed, but there are a couple of battles off hand i wouldn't include in those lists and also probably not the medieval ones because not only are they out of our time period but also a lot more heavily armed than those you'd find in EB.


Your point is still valid though and i enjoyed reading up on some of the battles i was not familiar or well versed in.

ever have someone run at you, trip and then fall on you? ever had a fat guy pass out on top of you?


the horse sure isn't going to "push" anymore, but there is still a hell of a lot of momentum coming at you. and in this case, the momentum isn't square against the ground, it's about 6 feet high.


2 horses colliding.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=VuaSRbRqV78

horse falls. you're saying it wouldn't take 3 people down with it?

https://youtube.com/watch?v=5-8z5U-o4O4

here's a showjump horse, and yea, it's just a plastic collapsable wall, but now you've got a half ton animal with flailing hooves on you.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=zfVS6nmZWho


remember, this is 1000+ lbs at 10-20 mph. it doesn't matter if he is killed on the first microsecond of impact. there's still 1000+lbs of dead weight moving forward (and down) at 10-20mph.






the other thing discussed is just the mass at the front.

you've got a dozen dead guys, and a dozen dead horses and riders.

that's quite the pile of bodies. that would make it pretty hard to move forward/continuous charge,and i've often wondered how this works. moving over this must be pretty tough.

and what about guys that are still alive but buried/dying? does someone follow around behind the phalanx wall slitting all their throats?

There is no doubt that it won't make a mess but it is highly doubtful that the horses would do it in the first place and that they would be going full gallop into the pikes too. The role of cavalry is to attack/harrass the flanks and doesn't do when they stop to slug it out, as shown at Pharsalus, although my example is admittedly, slightly extreme. There are many accounts of battles becomign tougher as the phalanx had to move over the bodies of dead/dying enemies and even their own men and behind the phalanx there generally was other units (skirmishers who have retired or any reserve forces kept back) who would be more than happy to keep their rear secure by killing any survivors.

[Pharnakes]

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Could you eplain this please?

[The Internet]

Could you eplain this please?

It's a saying, it means i like his way of thinking. Subscribing to a newsletter means you want to hear more about what you've just heard/seen.


Basically, i agree with him and like his way of thinking.