Breaking enemy alliances (?)

[gurakshun]

Hi all, playing as Pontus in the later parts of the 3rd century BC, I've secured Asia minor and I am currently "turtling" and developing my economy and homeland, and more importantly, my military buildings before I go on major expeditions.

My problem is this - the damn Ptolemies and AS are allied. Hayasdan still lives but is a protectorate of AS. The sauromatae are also the ally of the AS and threaten my bosphoran holdings even though they are way too poor to be a real threat ATM...i dont want to let them build into full armies of their elites though.

I want to throw the middle east into war. I am never going to take Antiocheia because if i do, thats a relentless attack from those damn egyptians and the AS at a city that is not in a very good position to be defended (fighting on 2 fronts at once).

Should I just wait for them to start fighting and then swoop in during the conflict? or is there any way for me to disrupt the power balance, because I really want to help my baktrain and carthaginian allies but the grey and yellow death have a firm and profitable chokehold on the whole area. Any advice would be great!!

This is a really epic feeling as my alliance takes on the 3 allied successor kingdoms (but macedon is currently protectorated and locked down in little Tylis by my friend epeiros). I will post my games' progression so far as soon as I get home, and I think you all will really find it interesting with the amount of unexpected success of factions that usually fail.

[burn_again]

The only "easy" way of breaking an alliance or protectorate between two factions is to ally with one and then attack the other. Unfortunately this doesn't work if you're at war with a faction and can't ally with their allies.
You could however try to get a peace, then quickly form some alliances and restart the war. Especially the AS often wants me to become a protectorate, if you agree and in the next turn tell them the alliance is cancelled, you're at peace with them and don't loose any money. RTW diplomacy is tricky...

[bovi]

You could try to pay them to attack by diplomacy, but whether they go through with it is not sure, even unlikely.

[overweightninja]

You could try to pay them to attack by diplomacy, but whether they go through with it is not sure, even unlikely.

Actually in my experience I've found the opposite. If the AI agrees to attack another faction, I've noticed that 90% of the time it does, just don't expect any full on invasions (getting a unit of pandapadoi to cough on an enemy settlement is probably the best to expect, but at least it'll break up the alliance).
I wouldn't worry about it, alliance or not everyone will turn on you in the end anyway

[Treverer]

Ah, yes: AS & Ptolemaioi allied and the Hay meddling ... That's why I try to smash the Hay AFAP with Pontos.

My suggestions:

- Smash the Hay ASAP/AFAP. BTW, you get some cities with mines (their capital and Georgia & the city north of their capital I'd guess are their's).
- Monitor/watch the Sauromatae with watchtowers & spies. If you can afford it, use spies to set up unrest in their cities bordering yours.
- Take a look at the diplo-screen: who are the ennemies of AS & Ptolemaioi? If any (else than you/ ;-) ), try to make an alliance with them. The old "My ennemies' ennemies are my friends" work fine here.
- Depending on your frontline with AS, use 1 or 2 "Mobile Defence Forces" with, say 1 (better 2) FMs/Generals, 2 medium cavs and say, 4+ HAs. Your budget might suffer though.
- But to improve it a bit, gather a decent/good infantry army with at least 6 Pantodapoi Phalangitai (yes, I know this is singular), 6-8 slingers (hellen ones are cheaper than eastern ones, if I remember well), say two skirmishers and 2 or 4 spearmen/swordsmen. Take a FM or General that is dependable/has no gouvernor qualities/has a good potential as general and put him in command, et voilà: your sucuide raiding army is ready for action. Pay the dear AS some visits, get into their cities, slaughter all and everything, destroy all the buildings (exept unique ones, you are never able to rebuild those & I simply cannot behave that ... "barbarian") and continue your "AS raiding tour". At a certain point, if available, you can/could reinforce your army by mercenaries and thous prolonging your tour. But remember, this army is meant to finally die after giving you what you need most: cash & a crippled AS.
- Feel free to repeat this with the Ptolemaioi.

Yours, Treverer

P.S. if you roleplay your faction, you might switch the killing to enslaving: you offer them shelter & ... whatever in your Kingdom. Well after all, these old Persian lands should be ruled by your King and his decendants, one day ...

[bovi]

What's AFAP? If you only wrote it once, I'd think you misspelled ASAP, but you even put it next to ASAP. As Fast As Possible perhaps, meaning the same as ASAP?

[gurakshun]

Ah, yes: AS & Ptolemaioi allied and the Hay meddling ... That's why I try to smash the Hay AFAP with Pontos.

My suggestions:

- Smash the Hay ASAP/AFAP. BTW, you get some cities with mines (their capital and Georgia & the city north of their capital I'd guess are their's).

Yeah those bastards have 3 (or 4?) cities. since its nearly 50 years into the game, I'm guessing that they are probably quite well developed inspite of their protectorate tax. They don't seem to be exactly thriving, though...

- Monitor/watch the Sauromatae with watchtowers & spies. If you can afford it, use spies to set up unrest in their cities bordering yours.
).

These guys are a joke. They have a quite expansive empire but are poor as the dirt they lord themselves over. I have seen the random rebel uprisings put them to shame...in fact one even took a settlement from them, with no hint of reprisal yet.

I also like to keep FOW off, because it leads to very fun end of turns....you can see exactly the battles the computer is fighting in far off lands, better than just watching the names and symbols of factions scroll by. I don't consider it cheating in the least. Now I wish that I could actually WATCH the computer battles (as in battle map battles)

- Take a look at the diplo-screen: who are the ennemies of AS & Ptolemaioi? If any (else than you/ ;-) ), try to make an alliance with them. The old "My ennemies' ennemies are my friends" work fine here.

Carthage and Baktria and Rome, who are also my buddies...The whole alliance situation is very World War I-like. Carthage and Baktria are threatening the Ptol and AS empires respectively and I think that if they can push through it will destabilize power enough to get break the AS/Ptol/Mak alliance. Mak is at the protectorate mercy of Epiros anyway....

- But to improve it a bit, gather a decent/good infantry army with at least 6 Pantodapoi Phalangitai (yes, I know this is singular), 6-8 slingers (hellen ones are cheaper than eastern ones, if I remember well), say two skirmishers and 2 or 4 spearmen/swordsmen. Take a FM or General that is dependable/has no gouvernor qualities/has a good potential as general and put him in command, et voilà: your sucuide raiding army is ready for action. Pay the dear AS some visits, get into their cities, slaughter all and everything, destroy all the buildings (exept unique ones, you are never able to rebuild those & I simply cannot behave that ... "barbarian") and continue your "AS raiding tour". At a certain point, if available, you can/could reinforce your army by mercenaries and thous prolonging your tour. But remember, this army is meant to finally die after giving you what you need most: cash & a crippled AS.

I've got tons of cash, I'm literally rolling in it as all my settlements are at the foremost of technology (I've gotten the most advanced faction a lot). THey are all becoming huge cities soon, with ALL the public order/happiness, military, and economic buildings built or in progress. I don't want to cripple the AS yet just make the Ptols abandon them so i can sack egypt and then take my victory conditions. THose egyptians are really gonna get it, I hate them so much.

And i do destroy unique buildings sometimes. I tore down the colossus of Rhodes (along with every other building I could tear down) after the KH betrayed me in a bizarre order of events....I completely decimated Rhodes in buildings and population (TWICE!)and then left it to give back to the treacherous Greeks.

But on the other hand, I kept the Galatian forest and I will likely keep all other wonders...though I'm still debating what I'm going to do with the Egyptian wonders, I hate them so much.

I've always noticed that the Greek factions (except for Epirus, he's cool with me) are always betraying me and being general jerks.

P.S. if you roleplay your faction, you might switch the killing to enslaving: you offer them shelter & ... whatever in your Kingdom. Well after all, these old Persian lands should be ruled by your King and his decendants, one day ...

Yeah I avoid killing and enslaving if the lead general is "unselfish". If he is "selfish" though, and "loyal", the screams will definitely be loud if the enemy crimes warrant it.

[Malik of Sindh]

Ha,I can feel your pain.In my Makedonia campaing I was allied to Epirus and fighting Romans.Epirus owned Capua and Taras,while I owned Rhegion and Sicily.And all of a sudden Epirus got a ceasefire with Romans and 2 turns later allied to them,and attacked me.I was so pissed off...gotta love RTW AI.

[Bootsiuv]

When I play Pontos....I break the alliance with AS with my diplo, and then attack them before they attack me....they instantly break alliances with baktria, parthia and hayasdan....

Im my current pontos game, the as is at war with all four of us, as well as the Maks and Ptolemies. Needless to say, they're screwed, and I've taken they're western asia minor holdings at my leisure.