Antiochos the Great

[anubis88]

Hi i have a question about the historians on the forum... Although i'm also a historyan, i (at least trying to be ) i have never comed across this info.
So, im nearing 200 Bc with my Arche campaign and i'm ready to invade Europe.
Since i like to play historycally, i'm wondering what was antiochoses plan? which cities should i attack first in EB? where did his army land?

Thanx for any info you can give, since i'm a Seleucia fan ever since i've heard of them (when i bought RTW )

[Folgore]

Check out Appian's History of the Syrian Wars here:
http://www.livius.org/ap-ark/appian/...yriaca_00.html

I think you'll find your answer there.

[keravnos]

His plan was to fight the Romans. He should have been more careful. First step would have been to destroy Pergamon. Then either befriend Makedonia or enslave them. Then the rest of Greece. Then tackle Roma. I am pretty certain that Romani would send legions after legions, but with his Mikrasian flanks secure, Antiochos could probably beat them.

As it were, the way the situation unfolded, Antiochos kept trying to field a good enough force to fight the Romani, they were one step ahead, and when actually managing to field a great force that would have defeated them, the decision to emply scythed chariots destroyed his left flank and ultimately his army, whereas he along with his Kataphracts, destroyed a roman legion and almost captured the Roman camp.

All in all, he didn't have a good strategy. If I were in his place and was planing to fight the Romans this is what I would have done.

[anubis88]

Wow Folgore, this is by far the greatest thing i've read on the internet in the past years... Never thought such information existed... that an assault on italy and an alliance with carthage was possible.... awesome.... THANK YOU so much!!!

[Emperor Burakuku]

OMG! This is so nice, I would like to thank both of you. When you think I had nothing left to read except some study on modern period in Asia. Thanks alot Folgore.

[Reno Melitensis]

All in all, he didn't have a good strategy.

Kervanos is wright here. Antiochos was an old style general, he wanted to be the next Alexander. In the Ancient Warfare mag. there is a good describtion of the battle of Magnesia, and how it was won. In fact it was the king of Pergamon, whose name I forgot, allied to Rome that routed the chariots, light cavalry and skirmishers on the left wing of the Selucids. Antiochos was far away from events to influence events. In the end the Roman legions showered the phalanxes with pila.

He should have used his superior cavalry to hammer the Romans from the flanks or rear, while the Phalangites, Agema , Galatians and other troops he had in his army kept them in check from the front. But it is this way that battles are won or lost at the end of the day.

Cheers

[Emperor Burakuku]

Kervanos is wright here. Antiochos was an old style general, he wanted to be the next Alexander. In the Ancient Warfare mag. there is a good describtion of the battle of Magnesia, and how it was won. In fact it was the king of Pergamon, whose name I forgot, allied to Rome that routed the chariots, light cavalry and skirmishers on the left wing of the Selucids. Antiochos was far away from events to influence events. In the end the Roman legions showered the phalanxes with pila.

He should have used his superior cavalry to hammer the Romans from the flanks or rear, while the Phalangites, Agema , Galatians and other troops he had in his army kept them in check from the front. But it is this way that battles are won or lost at the end of the day.

Cheers

"Eumenes, having succeeded admirably in his first attempt and cleared the ground held by the dromedaries and chariots, led his own horse and those of the Romans and Italians in his division against the Galatians, the Cappadocians, and the other collection of mercenaries opposed to him, cheering loudly and exhorting them to have no fear of these inexperienced men who had been deprived of their advance supports. They obeyed him and made so heavy a charge that they put to flight not only those, but the adjoining squadrons and the mail-clad horse, who were already thrown into disorder by the chariots. The greater part of these, unable to turn and fly quickly, on account of the weight of their armor, were captured or killed. While this was the state of affairs on the left of the Macedonian phalanx, Antiochus, on the right, broke through the Roman line of battle, dismembered it, and pursued a long distance." Appain - Syriaca

[abou]

This thread displeases me greatly.

[anubis88]

Why?

[Pharnakes]

Its about the death of the seleukids and the end of the greek hegonomy?


It makes me sad to read it.

[Emperor Burakuku]

This thread displeases me greatly.

Is just a version mate. Maybe you misunderstood. My favorite EB faction is AS. We know that Appian is quite underestimated between greek historians. Don't get it, why are you so displeased?

[Emperor Burakuku]

I still don't get it...

[Pharnakes]

Thats no excuse to spam.


BTW, nice sig.



incedentaly, this post is also spam.

[Emperor Burakuku]

You're right Pharnakes :). Is just that it seems that I and him have the exact same preferences and still, we're humans ans so we don't get along. And it this saddens me the most.

P.S Thanks for the sig. :)

[Pharnakes]

I have to admit, I am slightly confused, I don't see what the problem with the thread is..

But I don't think he has a problem with you, which you seem to imply you think.


You always have your dog.


And abou's bark is probably worse than his bite.


Alright, I'm leaving.

[Emperor Burakuku]

I honestly think the problem is with the post itself and with the fact that Antiochos III Megas was defeated at Magnesia. Or whatever, not with me. And it doesn't matter anyways. Peace . My problem is with the human limits when it comes to understanding and with the fact that Antiochos was defeated. And that Hannibal was defeated. And that some historians like more SF than real facts and with many other things. But we're all humans and we're not perfect. And with that I will go to bed as I am awake for more than 40h listening to Dream Theatre - Misunderstood. Cheers

[kambiz]

This thread displeases me greatly.

I don't care ! They were alien to eastern people. And they were occupier. Actually I think they lasted longer than they should. People of the region should threw them out sooner.

[Pharnakes]

BAH! you'd rather the Romans?

[L.C.Cinna]

I honestly think the problem is with the fact that Antiochos III Megas was defeated at Magnesia.

that's what happens to people who call themselves "great" before actually achiveing anything great... as a greek he should have known about the concept of hybris and nemesis


;)

[Pharnakes]

He did do quite a bit, you know. He just slipped up a bit at magnesia.

[L.C.Cinna]

well he screwed Raphia and his eastern campaigns were nothing special really.

he followed Alexanders path, scared some rebellious Satraps with his big army (I mean he didn't really defeat anyone just forced them to sign treaties which none of them took too serious as soon as he was gone). and then went back and started a little propaganda campaign showing him as the new Alexander...

sure he wasn't all that bad but never enough for a title like "Megas"

[Long lost Caesar]

what is/are hybris and the other mentioned thing (cant be bothered to go back and check right now) Ive heard of them before, but dont actually know! cheers

[Pharnakes]

sure he wasn't all that bad but never enough for a title like "Megas"

True.

[TWFanatic]

Its about the death of the seleukids and the end of the greek hegonomy?


It makes me sad to read it.

And Rome's conquest.

Wooh!

[Pharnakes]

Either you shall leave the AtB team, sir or I shall.



J/K


EDIT: And take the Galatians with you! Damn stinking roman-loving barbararians....


*goes off muttering to himself*

[Emperor Burakuku]

Romans VS Seleukides. This is the question... all of us into history and we're taking anout imagination? This is strage. Maibe it's just the beer. Romans won, Antiochos Megas lost and that's the way thing are. Think about this: if he would have won, we wouldn't be speaking now... sorry for my english, but I really am kinda drunk.

[Spoofa]

what would Antiochos's victory have anything to do with us speaking now? its not like the romans invented the internet or computers... >.>

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
CN.AEMILIVS.POMPONVS was going to invent the Internet much earlier, had the republic continued. OCTAVIANVS.CAESAR plotted with ALBERTVS.CORVS against him.
.

[L.C.Cinna]

.
CN.AEMILIVS.POMPONVS was going to invent the Internet much earlier, had the republic continued. OCTAVIANVS.CAESAR plotted with ALBERTVS.CORVS against him.
.

lmgdfao *sorry drunk too*

[Sarcasm]

I don't care ! They were alien to eastern people. And they were occupier. Actually I think they lasted longer than they should. People of the region should threw them out sooner.

I think we should throw YOU out.

Gotta love nationalist-fundamentalism.