EB Tweaks

[CirdanDharix]

Here's an updated version mixed with Fanatic's mod--kudos to him and thanks for letting me use his stuff.
http://rapidshare.com/files/73347518/EB.zip

Here's an updated version, mixed with Fanatic's mod (see above for why he's awesome) and including changes to the unit prices. See below for details.

http://rapidshare.com/files/73346581/cost.zip

Stuff changed:
Made it possible to play custom battles without changing the EDU. All factional units and some regional ones should be available in custom battles, without any effect on campaign gameplay. If any factional units don't show up, please let me know.
Added assimilation system--assimilation of non-homeland privinces is very expensive and requires you put up with big penalties for a long time. But it allows you to build a Gov I once the process is complete.
Reworked governments--compared to regular EB, putting more centralised governments in place is more expensive and lengthy, but more rewarding in the long term.
Koinon Hellenon now has two different Gov Is, one is a democracy meant for Athens and similar city states,the other is the Spartan Agoge, only certain provinces can have it though so you can't turn Athens into a Spartan-style state.
Increased bonii for many unique "buildings".
Newly-captured provinces will now be in a state of anarchy. This is bad. Very bad. So hurry up with the temporary military government. By the way, you can just destroy it, but that will break the government building conditions, so don't.
Reworked economy--again, many buildings made to be more costly but more rewarding.
Reworked the stats of naval units. Generally speaking, ships cost more to build but less to maintain than in plain EB; they no longer all have the same manpower.
Changed the costs of artillery units for more realism. Maybe it will actually be worth building them now.
Modified ranged units--ranged attacks (especially javelins which I find useless) have been made generally more powerful. Slings are no longer armour-piercing uberweapons and they have less range than bows, but more ammunition.
And Stuff. I may have forgotten some things.

EDIT:
I've also added a new tweak/feature: for the factions that set up colonies of military settlers, these military colonies enable the recruitment of appropriate units; klerouchoi phalangitai for all, and the upgraded colony gives better units for the Eastern Hellenistic factions (dependant on faction: Baktria only get Pezhetairoi, AS gets the Pezhetairoi and Argyraspidai like this, Ptolemies get their military settler elites). The units recruited through military colonies either are no longer recruitable through the standard MICs, or have had their AOR restricted. This gives more incentive for building military colonies and is realistic. Also, all colony buildings have been re-balanced--even for the factions that send out colonists, rather than settling them, there should be more incentive to use them.

Also, Carthaginian Sacred Bands are now recruited from the Temple Complex unique building in Carthage herself.

EDIT2: New version! This one has a vastly changed unit pricing: I've tried to estimate a reasonable price per soldier for each unit, although I've always tried to err on the high, rather than low, side of things (since armies in R:TW will not be as big as the larger real armies of the time). My main concern has been to encourage realistic usage of troops: for instance, it is very cheap to raise levies, so you lose nothing by disbanding them when you don't need them. However, levies tend to be more costly than in plain EB, so keeping them mobilised for long is not a good idea. Generally, I tried to take into account costs for logistics and feeding an army in the field, and this tends to reduce differences between the maintenance costs of elites and conscripts (because it always costs as much to feed ten thousand men, whether they are uber-elite Spartans or hapless hoplitai haploi), although elites still cost much more per man. It also inflates the cost of even the weakest cavalry quite a bit, since horses are expensive to feed and look after. There's also a big difference between the cost of raising professional units and the cost of raising levies, much greater than difference in maintenance costs between the two. Now, I've included a .txt document with the per-man costs in the download, but here's a copy for the impatient:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Note: Mn=Mnai drch=Drachmai (6000 drachmai = 60 Mnai = 1 Talent) "+x%" means you must pay the maintenance cost +x% to raise the unit; pure mercenaries don't have this since the game engine already gives them a "signing up bonus", but mercenaries that also appear as regionals do.

Iovamann, Accensii 1.4Mn +15%
Iaosatae, Toxotai, Nubian Spearmen, Ethiopian Archers, Arab Slingers, Komatai Sphendonetai, Shuban-i Fradakshana, Northern Iberian Skirmishers, Leves 1.5Mn +20%
Sphendonetai, Pantodapoi, Arabian Skirmishers, Imannae, Baktrian Light Infantry, Iberi Velites, Phyletichoi Illyrioi, Velites 1.5Mn +25%
Akontistai, Sotaroas, Komotai Toxotai, Balroae, Numidian Archers, Arabian Archer-Spearmen, Sabaean Archers, Lugoae, Gund-i Palta, Germanic Archers, Iberi Milites, Sarmatian Spearmen 165drch +20%
Kluddobro, Katpatuka Zanteush, Tabargânê Êrânshahr, Galatikoi Kluddolon, Germanic Levy Spearmen, Goidilic Levy Spearmen, Balearic Slingers, Rorarii 175drch +30%
Hoplitai Haploi, Doryphoroi Pontikoi, Garamantine Infantry, Numidian Javelinmen, Red Sea Axemen, East Coast Levies, Misteret Izrahim Tsorim, Bagaudas, Gaeroas, Komatai, Nizagan-i Eranshahr, Hyrkanian Hillmen, Scythian Axemen, Anatolian Hillmen, Germanic Skirmishers, Vigiles, Saka Spearmen 2Mn +25%
Goidilic Light Infantry, Balearic Light Infantry, Camillan Hastati 2Mn +150%
Aithiopikon Agema 2Mn +500%
Pantodapoi Phalangitai, Ethiopian Spearmen, Sabaean Citizen Spearmen, Batacorii, Gaelaiche, Cemmeinarn, Nizag Gund, Thanvare Payahdag, Slaganz, Saka Foot Archers, Sarmatian Foot Archers, Subeshi Archers 2.1Mn +30%
Polybian Hastati 215drch +200%
Phalangitai Deuteroi, Machimoi Phalangitai, Aljazgae, Chatti Clubmen, Scythian Foot Archers 2.2Mn +30%
Aichmetai Leukanoi, Iudaioi Taxeis, Uazali, Illyrioi Thureophoroi, Machimoi, Aithiopoi Machairophoroi, Drapanai, Getikoi Stratiotai, Komatai Agrianai, Bastarnae Shock Infantry, Mardian Archers 2.2Mn +100%
Cwmyr, Levantine Archer Auxilia, Heavy Persian Archers 2.2Mn +400%
Iberi Caetrati, Caetrannan, Camillan Principes 2.3Mn +150%
Arabian Noble Infantry, Botroas, Germanic Spearmen, Chauci Spearmen, Scandinavian Spearmen, Chatti Spearmen 2.3Mn +250%
Anatim Leebim, Iberi Scutari, Gestikapoinann, Polybian Principes 235drch +250%
Peltastai, Ekdromoi Hoplitai, Peltastai Indohellenikoi, Partohellenikoi Thureophoroi 2.4Mn +100%
Western Auxilia, Eastern Auxilia 2.4Mn +300%
Toxotai Kretikoi 2.4Mn +500%
Mesoorianim Leebim, Armenian Medium Infantry, Germanic Swordsmen, Loricati Caetrati, Asturian Axemen 245drch +300%
Thureophoroi, Thureopherontes Toxotai, Red Sea Hoplites, Komatai Pelekuphoroi, Georgian Swordsmen, Kardaka, Hastati Samnitici 2.5Mn +100%
Bataroas, Keltohellenikoi Hoplitai, Uirodusios 2.5Mn +275%
Toxotai Syriakoi, Armenian Noble Infantry, Germanic Pikemen, Goidilic Shock Infantry, Roscaithrera, Cohortes Reformata 2.5Mn +400%
Dorkim Aloopim, Cohortes Imperatoria, Prima Cohortes Reformata 2.5Mn +600%
Prima Cohortes Imperatoria 2.5Mn +800%
Thraikioi Peltastai, Agrianikoi Pelekephoroi, Klerouchoi Phalangitai, Cherusci Swordsmen 255drch +125%
Komatai Epilektoi 2.6Mn +200%
Iphikratous Hoplitai, Hoplitai Indohellenikoi, Koinon Hellenon Phalangitai, Getikoi Straiotai Thorakitai, Polybian Triarii 2.6Mn +400%
Hoplitai, Hoplitai Hellenikoi, Syracuse Hoplites, Dorkim Leebi-Ponnim Mookdamim 2.7Mn +100%
Camillan Triarii 2.7Mn +200%
Calawre, Pontikoi Thorakitai, Scortamavera, Pedites Extraordinarii 2.7Mn +300%
Pezhetairoi, Chalkaspidai 275drch +400%
Hysteroi Pezhetairoi, Sreni Pattya Yoddaha, Germanic Heavy Infantry 275drch +500%
Massiliotes Hoplitai 2.8Mn +100%
Milnaht, Teceitos, Drwdae, Taxeis Triballoi, Loricati Scutari 2.8Mn +250%
Dorkim Leebi-Ponnim Mesoorianim 285drch +100%
Thraikoi Romphaiphoroi, Skadagunganz, Goidilic Noble Infantry 2.9Mn +300%
Misthophoroi Peltastai 3Mn
Klerouchoi Agema, Aanatim Aloopim, Pictones Neitos, Lugian Swordsmen, Dorkei Hatkafa Iberim, Antesignani 3Mn +400%
Argyraspidai, Chaonion Agema, Agema Hellenikon 3.1Mn +400%
Thorakitai, Indogreek Noble Hoplites 3.2Mn +250%
Kluddargos, Neitos, Galatikoi Klerouchoi, Ambakaro 3.2Mn +450%
Cohortes Evocata 3.3Mn +300%
Thorakitai Hoplitai, Baktrioi Agema, Basilikon Agema 3.3Mn +400%
Pheraspidai, Hypaspistai, Cohortes Praetoriana 335drch +700%
Arjos, Rycalawre, Solduros, Galatikoi Kuarothoroi 345drch +300%
Dorkim Kdosim 3.5Mn +500%
Epilektoi Hoplitai 3.6Mn +200%
Carnute Cingetos 3.7Mn +600%
Spartiatai Hoplitai 375drch +900%
Thorakitai Argyraspidai 3.8Mn +800%
Gaesatae, Tindanotae 395drch +850%
Aorsi Riders, Steppe Riders, Dahae Riders, Pahlava Shivatir, Sarmatian Horse-Archers, Scythian Horse-Archers, Dahae Skirmishers, Saka Riders, Saka Horse-Archers, Yuezhi Horse-Archers 4Mn +50%
Ebherni Armoured Shock Infantry, Dosidataskeli 425drch +600%
Roxolanni Riders, Scythian Riders 4.5Mn +50%
Myrcharn 4.5Mn +200%
Hippakontistai, Arabian Levy Cavalry, Nizakahar Ayrudzi 5Mn +50%
Numidian Cavalry, Taramonnos, Getikoi Hippotoxotai, Equites Cantabrii, Ayrudzi Netadzik, Early Yuezhi Nobles 5Mn +150%
Ethiopian Cavalry, Mezenai, Ridanz, Equites Caetrati 5.5Mn +75%
Machimoi Hippeis, Asiatikoi Hippakontistai 6Mn +75%
Illyrioi Hippeis, Sabaean Citizen Cavalry, Goidilic Cavalry, Saka Lancers 6Mn +150%
Thraikioi Hippeis, Kamboja Asvaka Ksatriya, Iberi Curisi 6.5Mn +150%
Prodromoi, Prodromoi Thraikioi, Numidian Nobles, Liby-Phoenician Cavalry 6.9Mn +300%
Carthaginian Citizen Cavalry, Aspet Hetsezalor, Mada Asabara, Asavaran-i Dehbed, Polybian Equites 7Mn +100%
Hippeis, Asiatikoi Hippeis, Katputka Asabara, Camillan Equites 7.2Mn +100%
Ktistai, Sarmatian Noble Horse-Archers, Alan Nobles 7.5Mn +250%
Equites Germanorum, Equites Hispanorum, Equites Thracum, Equites Gallorum 7.5Mn +300%
Ala Imperatoria 7.5Mn +500%
Roxolanni Nobles, Early Saka Nobles, Aorsi Nobles 8Mn +300%
Baktrioi Hippeis, Hetairoi Aspidophoroi, Taxilan Agema, Ambakaro Epones 8Mn +400%
Hippeis Tarantinoi, Leuce Epos, Tarabostes 8.5Mn +150%
Dahae Nobles 8.5Mn +350%
Baktrioi Hippotoxotai, Hippeis Lonchophoroi 9Mn +400%
Brihentin, Galatikoi Lavotuxri, Marhathegnoz 10Mn +200%
Hippeis Thessalikoi, Campanian Cavalry 10Mn +300%
Klerouchoi Agema Hippeon, Agema Hippeon Hellenikon 10Mn +400%
Remi Mairepos, Scythian Nobles 10.3Mn +400%
Hippeis Xystophoroi, Equites Extraordinarii 10.5Mn +300%
Molosson Agema 10.5Mn +500%
Saka Bodyguard Cavalry 11Mn +400%
Hellenikoi Kataphraktoi, Iberi Lancearii 11.5Mn +600%
Sacred Band of Astarte, Shivatir-i Zrehbaran, Zrahakir Netadzik 12Mn +550%
Hetairoi, Pahlavan-i Zrehbaran 12.5Mn +500%
Nakharakan Aspet, Asavaran-i Azadan 13Mn +400%
Girvpanvar 13.5Mn +500%
Khuveshavagan 14.5Mn +300%

I've also tweaked quite alot of units. Notably, upped the lethality of falcatae to the same level as shortswords, upped the stats of Galatikoi Kuarathoroi to the same level as Arjos/Solduros/Rycalawre (since they're basically the same unit, only Galatian), upped Polybian Triarii's defence and increased the charge of Polybian, Marian, and Augustan legionnaires. Also upped the Polybian Principes a bit and repercuted the changes onto Marian/Augustan units. Cataphracts now frighten infantry (you wouldn't want them charging you, either). Very heavy cavalry (Hippeis Thessalikoi and heavier) now have a bonus against cavalry, to enable them to make short work of light cavalry--in a mounted melee, the bigger, stronger chargers of the heavy cavalry are quite an advantage over ligther horses bred for speed over power. Pheraspidai have the same defence as Thorakitai, since they seem to wear the same armour. Uachtarach Dubo-something have also been upped to match the Dosidataskeli (or the reverse--can't remember). Pontikoi Thorakitai have been boosted, since they seemed much weaker than Thureophoroi. Caetrati have been given -1 armour and Loricati Caetrati +1, since there wasn't enough difference between their defences.

[CirdanDharix]

bump for updated dowload.

[The Celt]

Bump. Awesome mod. This should be perfect for factions with limited expansion zones or for migration campaigns.

[TWFanatic]

A lot of this is stuff I've already done to my game. Some excellent ideas there for balancing and improving EB gameplay. Great mod for long-term, serious campaigns, but not well-suited for blitzkriegs (then again EB as a game really isn't either). Good work.

[CaesarAvgvstvs]

Hi all. I want to play this mod, but whenever I boot up EB, I get an error message about the officer of the Frist Cohorts!

[CirdanDharix]

Do you? that's odd. What is the exact error message? Also, did you extract all files to the correct directory?

EDIT: uploaded a new version, I still don't know what's causing your trouble but it might fix it. It also fixes a couple of minor bugs with governments; now if you tear them down and have no government in a province, you won't be stuck since it will script in an Anarchy-marker. The problem is that, in order to solve another problem linked to captured cities whereby you had greyed-out duplicates of all buildable governments, I had to remove the seamless upgrading from one government to another. That means you now have to plunge a province into Anarchy in order to change its government, and you'll have to tolerate the penalties of having only a temporary military admnistration while building the new government. I'm not sure the solution is better than the evil in this case...

[fallen851]

It also inflates the cost of even the weakest cavalry quite a bit, since horses are expensive to feed and look after.

Right, because grass and a rope are really expensive. The real cost associated with horses is the training, of the horse, and also the rider to be combat ready.

[Numahr]

I am still looking with interest at your files.

It seems that the file you uploaded does not include your new pricing system. I see that you reduced the recruitment time to 0 for all, but I do not see any other change in units cost...?

[CirdanDharix]

Nuhmar, couldn't you have posted this earlier? this is so embarassing, I left out the second link It's fixed now. The actual unit prices are set for Huge unit size, ebcause otherwise, they'd be way to small.

[Numahr]

It's OK CirdanDharix :)
Actually I checked again again and again before to post it...

I think I can confirm you that taxe penalties are broken, while trade penalties are OK. You can however, for type 4 governments, tweak the type 4 governor trait and add a tax penalty effect to it, this works well.

As for unit stats and cost, I will now have a closer a look at your system, it seems very innovative. I am afraid this may have bad consequences on the way AI will balance the composition of its stacks. Did you test this parameter? You know, the AI chooses what unit to build relying on their cost, and tweaking these may result in AI making unbalanced / unrealistic / not fun stacks.

[CirdanDharix]

So far, the AI is buillding fairly balanced stacks...it does however seem to favour smaller units more--i.e. the diadochi seem to build more thureophoroi and less phalanx units than before, although they still build pike battalions their armies are more diverse. Generally, levy units are now mixed in with higher-quality forces which is IMO more realistic than a stack with twenty elites. Cavalry is still getting built, but settled nations tend to avoid going cav-heavy; for some perhaps there isn't enough cavalry, but then it also means we avoid having Romans who field huge cavalry armies. Perhaps AI unit choice could be improved by increasing the size of some infantry units, though.

The problem with giving traits to the type IV governors is that they won't be faction-specific. I've made most Type IV governments the same, but soem factions have their specific variations. How badly are the tax penalties broken?

[Warlord 11]

I have downloaded your mod and like it very much, but I have a couple of minor complaints.
First, while I like the economic system a lot (both that more developed cities make much more money as well as the relative costs of different units), I think that there may be a bit too much income relative to unit costs. In my KH game (admittedly on Medium difficulty) I control about 10 provinces, yet I have a fleet of some 1,500 ships, two full stacks (one made mostly of high quality troops, such as Spartan hoplites and cavalry), one half stack, significant garrison forces across my empire, constant construction in all provinces and I am still swimming in money. I realize that Hellas is likely one of the richest regions in the game, but it still seems slightly unbalanced.

Secondly, the ships seem to be somewhat unbalanced as well. The stronger ships tend to have many more ships per unit, yet cost only slightly more in upkeep, so it seems to me that the big ships are far more cost effective than small ships (unless you are only going to keep them around for a short while, but it seems that the relative recruitment/upkeep costs of most of them dissuade people from doing that). Perhaps larger ships should come in smaller quantities, but with similar upkeeps?

Finally, when I conquered Ambrakia (sp?), I destroyed the government and anarchy building like I had been doing in all the other cities I conquered. Yet, the next turn the anarchy building did not reappear, so I can't build a government there.

Again, I like the mod very much and am having a very good time playing it. I look forward to your attempt to lower growth rates without limiting city size. It may very well fix the first problem to some extent, as cities will tend to stay small and undeveloped for a lot longer, and thus one will make less money. Or perhaps you could increase build times to achieve a similar result. Or both?

About assimilation, could it be made so most of ones factional troops can be built in an assimilated city? In your example, if Carthage conquered London and made it into a thriving metropolis, could it be made so Carthage could recruit, say, Carthaginian Citizen Calvary? Perhaps after another long building called "Migration" or something?

[CirdanDharix]

First, i've updated the download--just added Crete to the provinces that can host a Spartan Agoge Klerouchy, and gave the two versions of the Thracian Prodromoi the same lance attack--previously the Getai had 4, and the regional/merc version had 3 (but was otherwise identical).


Beefy 187: Spartan Type I government should be available in Taras, Thermon, and now Crete if you have the latest download. If it doesn't show up, you may have to delete map.rwm, as it relies on a hidden resource.

Icydawgfish: Making my tweaks fully compatible with MAA's CityMod would be to difficult and not itneresting enough, though I'm working on my own solution to the problem of overpopulous cities, without the straightjacket approach of making only certain settlements able to reach a given size.

Warlord 11:
Well, I did intend to make a developed economy more powerful than in the regular EB, but I do seem to have made it possible to turn some cities into monstrous cash-cows. Part of the problem in linked to the RTW engine, namely, unit sizes: you're not going to have armies of 30,000 men marching around, so some form of compromise with realism has to found, especially since there's no way either to model hiring mercenaries only for a short fifty day campaign, for instance. Slowing city growth is at least part of the solution; other possibilities involve working on the value of trade goods, or turning up unit costs on the basis of one man representing several. I'd rather not have to reduce the quite large economic bonii I gave certain buildings, simply in order to maintain the difference between developped economies and backwaters, and to give the player (and even the AI) the chance to develop said backwaters.

Secondly, I didn't see the unit sizes for ships as a number of ships but as a number of fighting men (assuming the standard sailing complement, although a number of extra soldiers could be brought on board before major battles) for a small squadron (usually six ships). To be honest, it's deliberate that Pentekonterai aren't competitive when compared to Pentereis; I don't claim to be an expert but from what I've read, during the EB time period the triere itself was basically a "poor man's battleship", whereas any ship smaller was not worth considering as your navy's mainstay. The smaller ships (pentekonterai, biremes...) were only used as scouts, liaisons and for anti-piracy operations. Already at the time of Salamis, more than two hundred years before EB, pentekonterai were treated as negligible in big battles (Herodotos disregards them when giving the total strength of the fleets). So it would be unhistorical for pentekonterai, even many pentenkonterai, to be a viable, cost-effective option for your fleet's main line-of-battle ship. During the Hellenistic period, the workhorse of major navies was the pentere, so I suggest that if you want to build yourself into a first-rate naval power, you start gathering pentereis. It's only with ships larger than the pentere that, historically, "bigger=better" was brought into doubt.


Thirdly, I've just had a look at the code, and it seems I forgot Ambrakia in the script that regenerates anarchies. Rather than making a new download just for that, here's the code that needs to be added to EBBS_script.txt:

monitor_event SettlementTurnStart SettlementName Ambrakia
and not SettlementBuildingExists = anarchy
and not SettlementBuildingExists = gov_feeder
and not SettlementBuildingExists = gov4
and not SettlementBuildingExists = gov3
and not SettlementBuildingExists = gov2
and not SettlementBuildingExists = gov1
and not SettlementBuildingExists = govnomad
and not SettlementBuildingExists = govagoge
and not SettlementBuildingExists = govparthian

console_command create_building Ambrakia "anarchy"

end_monitor

When I get home I'll add this into the next downloadable version.

Fourthly, right now I'm experimenting with adding pop growth penalties to the unavoidable governor buildings, and it makes getting your cities huge much more challenging. I might increase the costs and build time on some buildings, as well.

And lastly, I think it's a good idea to make most units dependant, as far as possible, upon buildings and "political conditions" (materialised by buildings, of course), but I haven't tried it yet because I want to finish my ongoing KH campaign AAR ([shameless plug]https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=95143[/shameless plug]) without such a major upheaval as a completely reworked recruitment system. Is it even possible to make a building (other than the barracks themselves!) a requirement for recruiting a unit? I haven't tried it yet.

[Beefy187]

Im only getting Democracy in all city except Sparte
Ill go delete my map.rwm

Cheers

[Mouzafphaerre]

.

Fourthly, right now I'm experimenting with adding pop growth penalties to the unavoidable governor buildings, and it makes getting your cities huge much more challenging. I might increase the costs and build time on some buildings, as well.

Awesome idea! The AI seems to upgrade too quickly -due to the pop and money boost from EBBS maybe- and that makes expansion into different culture land a great pain. While expansion by itself being pain is good it forces the human player into blitzing; taking whatever before reaching the max town size.

So, while slowing pop growth and increasing the building time of the ridiculously indestructible palace buildings, adding law and happiness penalties in a fashion of enforcing town upgrades would make expansion both more stable and more challenging at the same time.
.

[Beefy187]

Just one complaints

Assimilation currently takes 40 turn to build... Thats reduculously long... Could you reduce it to about 20 turns at least?

Other then that. Although I find KH a bit overpowered (which is good) im really loving your mini mod. Fantastic work

[Warlord 11]

Well, I did intend to make a developed economy more powerful than in the regular EB, but I do seem to have made it possible to turn some cities into monstrous cash-cows. Part of the problem in linked to the RTW engine, namely, unit sizes: you're not going to have armies of 30,000 men marching around, so some form of compromise with realism has to found, especially since there's no way either to model hiring mercenaries only for a short fifty day campaign, for instance. Slowing city growth is at least part of the solution; other possibilities involve working on the value of trade goods, or turning up unit costs on the basis of one man representing several. I'd rather not have to reduce the quite large economic bonii I gave certain buildings, simply in order to maintain the difference between developped economies and backwaters, and to give the player (and even the AI) the chance to develop said backwaters.

Don't get me wrong, I love that a major developed city makes vastly more than a backwater, I just think that total there may be a bit too much income. The relative incomes are great, in my opinion. I think making one man in-game representing several is a good solution.

Secondly, I didn't see the unit sizes for ships as a number of ships but as a number of fighting men (assuming the standard sailing complement, although a number of extra soldiers could be brought on board before major battles) for a small squadron (usually six ships). To be honest, it's deliberate that Pentekonterai aren't competitive when compared to Pentereis; I don't claim to be an expert but from what I've read, during the EB time period the triere itself was basically a "poor man's battleship", whereas any ship smaller was not worth considering as your navy's mainstay. The smaller ships (pentekonterai, biremes...) were only used as scouts, liaisons and for anti-piracy operations. Already at the time of Salamis, more than two hundred years before EB, pentekonterai were treated as negligible in big battles (Herodotos disregards them when giving the total strength of the fleets). So it would be unhistorical for pentekonterai, even many pentenkonterai, to be a viable, cost-effective option for your fleet's main line-of-battle ship. During the Hellenistic period, the workhorse of major navies was the pentere, so I suggest that if you want to build yourself into a first-rate naval power, you start gathering pentereis. It's only with ships larger than the pentere that, historically, "bigger=better" was brought into doubt.

If unit size represents the actual number of men on the ship, what is the reason for higher attack on bigger ships? I mean, very large ships might have artillery on them, but a man on a pentekonterai would fight just as effectively as on a bireme, right? I'm not sure how the game engine handles navel battles, so my thinking might be wrong, but in my mind it doesn't make sense.

Thirdly, I've just had a look at the code, and it seems I forgot Ambrakia in the script that regenerates anarchies. Rather than making a new download just for that, here's the code that needs to be added to EBBS_script.txt:

Thank you!

Fourthly, right now I'm experimenting with adding pop growth penalties to the unavoidable governor buildings, and it makes getting your cities huge much more challenging. I might increase the costs and build time on some buildings, as well.

And lastly, I think it's a good idea to make most units dependant, as far as possible, upon buildings and "political conditions" (materialised by buildings, of course), but I haven't tried it yet because I want to finish my ongoing KH campaign AAR ([shameless plug]https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=95143[/shameless plug]) without such a major upheaval as a completely reworked recruitment system. Is it even possible to make a building (other than the barracks themselves!) a requirement for recruiting a unit? I haven't tried it yet.

Not sure about the possibility of a building being a requirement, but your ideas seem very good to me. Thank you for the mini-mod!

P.S. I like assimilation taking 10 years, personally. It shouldn't be something that you build just anywhere. In fact, I wouldn't mind it costing even more.

[CirdanDharix]

If unit size represents the actual number of men on the ship, what is the reason for higher attack on bigger ships? I mean, very large ships might have artillery on them, but a man on a pentekonterai would fight just as effectively as on a bireme, right? I'm not sure how the game engine handles navel battles, so my thinking might be wrong, but in my mind it doesn't make sense.

Actually, the higher the ship was above water then the more advantage the men on her deck had in a boarding action. It's easier to clear the enemy deck with javelins if you're higher than them, while your own ship's bullwarks will give you a greater measure of cover; and also, it's better to jump down onto their deck, than to have to climb up onto it. When the height difference becomes extreme (pentekontoros versus a triere or larger), jumping down can become quite risky, but then the smaller vessel's crew will have to find a way to attach ropes to the enemy ship, and then climb up them, over the bullwarks and then onto the deck--no mean feat when enemy marines are actively opposing your attempts to board them.

There's two other reasons for the attack and defence stats, as well; firstly, faster or more manoeuvrable ships had obvious advantages, and the bigger ships with more rowers tended to be faster, if not necessarily any more manoeuvrable. Secondly, boarding was not the only form of naval combat--ships could, and did, ram each other; bigger ships would have more kinetic energy and so could cause more damage when ramming, while being harder to sink (generally a ship would have no trouble sinking another of the same class, but a pentekonteros ramming a pentere is another matter). This is why I gave the big Celtic sailing ships low attack but good defence: no ram, but a very large and solid hull.

[Warlord 11]

Ah, I see. Thank you for the response. About buildings being requirements for recruitment, isn't that the way the reforms work? I'm not sure, but perhaps looking at how that works could help.

[Warlord 11]

I think that Syracuse doesn't have the anarchy script. I have added it into my verion using the format for Ambrakia, but I thought I would let you know.

[CirdanDharix]

Mouzaphaerre: ouch! I guess your fleet sank and you lost the army?

Warlord11:Okay, I'll look into it.

Icydawgfish:
http://files.filefront.com/costzip/;.../fileinfo.html
It's the version with changed costs. if you want the other one, I can upload it as well.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Mouzaphaerre: ouch! I guess your fleet sank and you lost the army?

Aye!

Whatever the maths (even 2:1) I always lose. That's partly why I'm resolving any brigand/pirate encounters with auto_win.

Is there a spy version of the auto_win command? The AI is doomed to kill my spies more than half of 93% missions and that's ever been since earliest vannila versions. (I shan't exploit, promise! )
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[V.T. Marvin]

Thanks Cirdan, excellent mod! However, I think that you have a bit overshot with "making buildings more costly but more rewarding". Playing as Pahlava in clean EB 1.0 I get to know how it feels to be really poor and poor I was indeed. The more pride I took for every humble building built and every cheap unit trained. Those were the times!
Now with your tweaks, not only I have absolutely no problem with money, but also the 0-turn-recruitment makes things even easier: I do not need large standing armies or strong garrisons to protect me from unexpected AI attack. All I need are spies and watch-towers to provide early warning. Army could be than called up as needed.

I would suggest to (1.) lower the tax income bonuses a bit and (2.) leave 0-turn-recruitment only for units with "untrained" attribute (representing levy militia) and give back 1-turn-recruitment to all other ("trained" and "highly trained")
I am going to make these changes myself, but I do not want to mess up my current campaign. Are changes in EDU and EDB savegame-compatible?

Just to be sure - I do not want to criticize. Overall, I like your mod very much

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Added assimilation system--assimilation of non-homeland privinces is very expensive and requires you put up with big penalties for a long time. But it allows you to build a Gov I once the process is complete.

Sorry if this has been discussed before but may I suggest that you

1. modify the assimilation so that, after it's complete, you can build gov1 only in previous gov2 provinces and gov2 only in previous gov3 provinces;
   
   
2. also seperate govs 3 and 4 so that you can build gov4 everywhere but gov3 in a much narrower area;
   
   
3. make it impossible for all but steppe factions to build any government but gov4 in the steppe provinces;
   
   
4. add unavoidable unrest penalty to the steppe provinces if they are held by non-steppe factions;
   
   
5. add law bonus to gov3 to balance the distance to capital penalty but not gov4 to hinder crazy expansion?

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[cyberVIP]

Ave!
PLease upgrade filefront link. Rapidshare is not good for me.

[MiniMe]

...make it impossible for all but steppe factions to build any government but gov4 in the steppe provinces...

This won't slow down non-steppe factions expansion into steppe.
Actually, this would do quite the opposite =)

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Unlet them mics too!?
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[Warlord 11]

If you are having trouble with nomad factions sucking check out the second post here: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=96143 In my game in 227 BCE as Pahlava with those changes, the nomadic factions are doing much better.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Aye, horse archers autocalc problem. Seen that.
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