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Thread: ARMY COMPOSITIONS: Teutons

  1. #1
    Guardian of the Fleet Senior Member Shahed's Avatar
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    Lightbulb ARMY COMPOSITIONS: Teutons


    Greetings Everyone !

    I'm curious as to what are the standard army compositions that everyone is using for the Teutons. I doubt I'll play much more on this campaign but I will return to it and wanted to get some ideas and start a discussion.

    I think the Teutons are an extremely strong faction when compared with almost any other faction. The standard Order Foot Soldier of the Teutons by itself is a very powerful all round unit. Combine this with devastating heavy cavalry, hardcore xbows and what else do you need ? Artillery ? No problem, got some of that too !

    My standard army around turn 35 is something like this:

    • General's BodyGuard *1
    • Mounted RitterBruder * 3
    • Mounted HalfBruder or ChristKnights * 4
    • Prussian Archers or Livonian Auxilliaries * 4
    • Teutonic Order Foot Soldiers * 4
    • Sword Brethern, Dismounted HalfBruder or Dismounted RitterBruder* 4


    I'm interested in seeing armies with some variety (as mine seem to be rather plain).
    If anyone is interested in reading more, I've got some info here about the order's composition from this (<-link)website.
    I found it reasonably informative. Click the spoiler for details.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    ________________________________________
    COMPOSITION OF THE TEUTONIC ORDER
    ________________________________________



    The Brethren:
    Some of the Brethren formed the Military wing of the Order. There were three distinct groups of Brethren, the RitterBrudern, the Diendebrudern and the HalbBrudern.
    Under the Statutes of the Order anyone wishing to join the Order had to speak German and not as is often portrayed be German. There were further restrictions on what capacity a new member could serve. The RitterBrudern and HalbBrudern had to be from a Noble family, while the Diendebrudern was open to anyone of military experience. The above combined with the requirement to take monastic vows limited the numbers of Brethren in the Order.

    RitterBrudern: (Brother Knight)
    These monastic Knights were the Elite of the Order. Their equipment was the best available of the time comparable with that of the best Knights of Western Europe. A White Jupon marked with a black cross distinguished the RitterBrudern from other troops in the Order's forces. The number of RitterBrudern peaked in the period just prior to the battle of Tannenberg. The highest figure given by Historians is around 750 though the more accepted figure is around 500. Order records put the loss of RitterBrudern at Tannenberg as 203 (out of the 250 present). The loss of between a third and a half of their total numbers was in itself a disaster but this number included almost every senior officer of the Order.

    DiendeBrudern:
    These Brothers were those not of Noble birth. Their military role was either as lesser men at arms forming the rear ranks to the RitterBrudern and HalbBrudern or as infantry. Their infantry role was usually that of an officer commanding non-Brethren foot. The closest equivalent would be that of an NCO in modern armies as usually a Lay or Brethren Knight had overall command. The Diendebrudern wore a light grey Jupon with a tau cross. A Tau cross is the shape of a capital T.

    HalbBrudern: (Half Brothers)
    These were members of the Order but whose period of service and duties were less than the RitterBrudern or DiendeBrudern. Unlike these Brethren the HalbBrudern did not take monastic vows of service for life. These Half Brothers may well have been an attempt to encourage people unwilling to join the Order for life or those fulfilling lesser Crusader vows. The HalbBrudern wore a light grey Jupon with a tau cross. Unlike other Brethren of the Order it appears that the HalbBrudern were allowed to combine their family coats of arms with that of the Tau Cross. This may explain why examples of such have been found even though the Statutes of the Order expressly forbid such practises. That said even some Hochmeisters quartered their coats of arms with the Order's Cross.

    Other forces of the Order:
    The Brethren of the Order formed a very small proportion of available troops. The majority were supplied vassals, the rest by volunteers.

    The Vassals:
    There was no uniform law on vassalage within the Order controlled lands. The Germanised areas fell under the equivalents of Imperial law on the subject, all of Prussia being technically a Imperial Fief held by the Order. Conquered Polish and Lithuanian lands appear to have followed Polish precedent on vassal service. Running alongside these was vassalage in the 'Prussian fashion' this only applied to the natives or non-nobles in the case of Polish and Lithuanian lands. German and Polish vassalage differed only in the details so is not covered separately.

    MitBrudern: (Lay Knights)
    Nobility that held land granted to them by the Order. These Nobles were almost always German though some of the border families were Polish in origin. As with much of Europe the holding of land imposed certain duties on the holder. In the case of land granted by the Order the amount defined the service. A surviving Order document relating to land holdings in Chelmno, dated 1223 provides information on two main types of service, The Rossdienst and the Platendienst. The Rossdienst was anyone holding over 40 Ian (also called a Hufen) was expected to muster a horseman in full armour with a barded steed along with two retainers, this forming the traditional German Lance. Note the barded steed may well be a mistranslation and in fact may merely mean a horse in a cloth housing. The Platendienst was anyone holding fewer than 40 Ian and usually refereed to native Prussians who was expected to muster in lesser armour and be mounted. Later Order documents show a reduction in the minimum, some as low as 15 Ian for Rossdienst. However these reductions appear in areas long pacified by the Order. There are two probable reasons for this. Firstly that these 'secure' areas were more effectively farmed/managed and so provided greater wealth. Secondly by the late 14th Century the Order was increasingly allowing vassals to buy their way out of military service so a downward trend in the minimum Ian would have increased revenues. Certainly frontier estates retained larger minima.

    Volunteers, Crusaders and Adventurers:
    Prior to 1400 the Order was able to recruit large numbers of volunteers for its campaigns. These volunteers were mostly German however some Grandees of European Nobility also took part. Henry Bolingbroke (later Henry IV) of England for instance campaigned twice in Prussia in the 1390's. These volunteers served for a variety of reasons, some to fulfil crusading vows, others for prestige and many for loot.

    German Colonists:
    From its earliest conquests in the Baltic the Order encouraged German Colonists to settle in the new territories. This created numerous 'German' Towns and villages. As a result by the late 14th Century the Order was able to call upon quite significant Militias from these towns and villages. These Militias did take to the field though their usefulness was as suspect as their German counterparts, their primary function was defence of their town. The Richer Burghers of the towns were able to buy their way out of field service by supplying a mercenary replacement. This was either a
    mounted Knight or a foot soldier depending on their wealth.

    Native troops:
    The Order recruited large numbers of native troops to serve with their armies. These contingents were invariably lightly equipped and the least effective of the Order's soldiers. They were however abundant and provided the bulk of the army and as often as not took the brunt of the casualties as well. The quality of these troops was also highly variable. The Border provinces of the Livonian territories provided an enthusiastic levy for the Order as they were usually employed to fight their traditional enemies the Estonians. The long held Prussian Provinces tended to provide the least effective levy, presumably as their fighting spirit had long been crushed by Order control. It was the provinces that bordered Lithuania and Poland that produced the best native troops and also the most revolts. Overall the best were the light horse who were usually recruited under the Platendienst, these forming contingents known as Turkopolen. The levy foot were usually bow or spear armed and carried a shield. They however faired badly in European style warfare, these native foot may well have formed the majority of the infantry ridden down by the Lithuanians at the start of the battle of Tannenberg. That said the lightness of the native foot made them highly useful for the more normal raid and counter raid that distinguishes much of the Order's frontier wars of the period. They were far more effective in the woods and marshes of Lithuania than the heavily armoured mercenary infantry and Knights of the Order.

    Mercenaries:
    The Order used mercenaries to bolster its forces, particularly as more vassals bought their way out of military service. These mercenaries were usually German in origin, for no other reason than the fractured nature of the Holy Roman Empire created large numbers of these troops. Precise numbers are not known though the Polish Chronicler Jan Dlugosz states around 4,000 hired troops were present at Tannenberg out of some 30,000. What is not clear is whether Dlugosz is referring to mounted Knights only. This is probable as Dlugosz give scant information on the foot of the Order. Accounts of the Order confirm the approximate numbers of Dlugosz. They note 1237 Knightly lances were present at the battle of Tannenberg, assuming 3 to lance that gives a total of 3711 men. These lances were paid 11 marks per month. To put this in perspective this would buy 8 cows or 400 geese at the time of Tannenberg.

    ______________________________
    For God, Germany and the Empire !
    ______________________________




    SALUTE !
    Last edited by Shahed; 11-07-2007 at 20:15.
    If you remember me from M:TW days add me on Steam, do mention your org name.

    http://www.steamcommunity.com/id/__shak

  2. #2

    Default Re: ARMY COMPOSITIONS: Teutons

    Fun information, thanks!

    This is the campaign that I find to be the second most interesting to me, but darned if I can pull myself away from Britannia to actually play it.

    Sadly, that means I have no input for you.

  3. #3

    Default Re: ARMY COMPOSITIONS: Teutons

    My approach is similar to yours but I tend to have two distinct types of army that I put together.

    The first is effectively a Trailblazer. Their job is to forge ahead into enemy territory, grab easy wins and cause havoc for the enemy. That force would be similar to yours but with a slightly greater emphasis on cavalry: speed and mobility are of the essence and it's not essential that I can beat all-comers.

    The second is designed to hold and consolidate. It's job is to eat stacks alive and capture any settlement. It doesn't need to be fast and it doesn't need to be clever. It does need to be unstoppable and capable of inflicting and absorbing loads of damage. That means lots of Order Foot and plenty of archers: the emphasis is not on maneuverability but on a slow, unstoppable progress across the battlefield or strategic map.

    Not only does this give me the ability to achieve different strategic aims, it also means I get to fight different types of battle with the same faction in the same campaign. I can't beat Polish Nobles and Strezcly (sp?) on maneuverability but let them try to match 8-10 Livonian Auxilliaries with supporting heavy infantry; the HRE or Danes, on the other hand, don't like the sight of massed RitterBruder bearing down on them.

    As you say, a very strong faction!
    As the man said, For every complex problem there's a simple solution and it's wrong.

  4. #4
    Amazing Mothman Member icek's Avatar
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    Default Re: ARMY COMPOSITIONS: Teutons

    I love when germans use name tannenberg that hitler created in his propaganda when it comes to battle in grunwald.

  5. #5
    Beware! Relentless Looter! Member Flavius Merobaudes's Avatar
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    Default Re: ARMY COMPOSITIONS: Teutons

    I hereby swear to never use more than 1 unit of Ritterbrüder and 1 unit of Dismounted Ritterbrüder in my stacks. Halbbrüder are allowed at a maximum of 4 of each kind. Units of the Livonian order ( Christusritter and Swordbrethren ) are only allowed in Riga and the regions north of it.

    Sorry ,icek. But it was not Hitler's propaganda that created the link between the battle in the middle ages and the other one of WW1.

    The original battle between the Teutonic Order and the united armies of Poland and Lithuania in 1410 is called Battle of Grünwald by Polish historians and Battle of Tannenberg by German history.
    It was a battle for the region of Samogitia and the decision in the "Grosse Streit"(Grand Dispute) between Poland-Lithuania and the Order. In the Peace of Sallinwerder from 1398 Samogitia was granted to the order and the Treaty of Krewo from 1404 reconfirmed the agreement. But in 1409 the Lithuanian leader Vytautas assisted the Samogitians in an uprising. This was the starting point of the war.

    The fighting from 26th to 30th of August 1914 between the German 8th army and the 1st and 2nd army of Zarist Russia took place in East Prussia near the town of Allenstein, i. e. about 20 miles east of Tannenberg.
    The later battle was called "Battle of Allenstein" at first. It was Paul von Hindenburg, commander of the 8th German army and later chief of the general-staff, who wanted it to be renamed for matters of propaganda. Thus it was called "Battle of Tannenberg" from then on.
    As you see, that has nothing to do with nazi-propaganda.
    For further info see here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...erg_%281914%29

    And now some words personally to you icek. This is not meant to offend you or anything...
    As I see from your other post you keep whining and complaining about Poland having only crappy units and being neglected all the time - which is simply not true. On the other hand, you complain about other nations that are too strong in your opinion and don't deserve it because they are "insignificant", as you say it. Since when is Portugal insignificant? Don't you think that might be at least a little bit insulting to the Portuguese? And your steady complaints are just ridiculous. It seems to me you have a problem there. Could it be you are some kind of nationalist? In all politeness, icek, I think these are some things worth mentioning.

  6. #6
    Cruel and cunning Member marrow's Avatar
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    Default Re: ARMY COMPOSITIONS: Teutons

    Quote Originally Posted by Flavius Merobaudes
    As I see from your other post you keep whining and complaining about Poland having only crappy units and being neglected all the time - which is simply not true. On the other hand, you complain about other nations that are too strong in your opinion and don't deserve it because they are "insignificant", as you say it. Since when is Portugal insignificant? Don't you think that might be at least a little bit insulting to the Portuguese? And your steady complaints are just ridiculous. It seems to me you have a problem there. Could it be you are some kind of nationalist? In all politeness, icek, I think these are some things worth mentioning.
    My thoughts exactly! Nothing seems quite ok for icek, whichever way you slant it. A bit more optimism and good will icek! Regards.

  7. #7

    Default Re: ARMY COMPOSITIONS: Teutons

    Being Polish myself, I can see where Icek is coming from with his Polish slant on history; folks in Poland, by and large, are very proud of their country's history. However, every country had a golden age at some point. No reason to diminish everyone else because of that.

    On the other hand, whenever I play Poland in MTW2 (I rarely do, their units aren't fun for me) and I conquer a city in Russia, I exterminate

    But a little perspective never hurts Icek.

  8. #8
    Cruel and cunning Member marrow's Avatar
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    Default Re: ARMY COMPOSITIONS: Teutons

    I know this is grossly off-topic but do you reckon early turns of polish-lithuanian campaign in ETW will see me command polish hussars at all? I cannot imagine CA would miss the opportunity to introduce hands down the coolest cavalry unit of all time - polish hussars? They were on their last leg as a formation in early 1700's if I'm not mistaken so anything's possible...?

  9. #9
    Merciless Mauler Member TheLastPrivate's Avatar
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    Default Re: ARMY COMPOSITIONS: Teutons

    Polish Hussars can be recruited as soon as you build a huge city.

    Also with Teutonic army make sure you tag along one or two units of knetchen to chase routers, as enemy will route fast with all your dread knights but ALL of your cavalry suffer from stamina and speed issues you will need the light cavalry even though they are not your best light cavalry.

    Substitute with alan light cavalry if possible.


    Gae Ma Ki Byung:
    Possibly the earliest full-armored heavy cavalry in human history, deployed by the Goguryeo from the 3rd century A.D.

  10. #10
    Guardian of the Fleet Senior Member Shahed's Avatar
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    Default Re: ARMY COMPOSITIONS: Teutons

    Good point, taken.
    If you remember me from M:TW days add me on Steam, do mention your org name.

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