ALEXANDER EB

**Maksimus** · 12-09-2007, 17:35

What are you using? (mod's, features?)

**Maksimus** · 12-09-2007, 17:48

Originally Posted by konny

The features:
We can use that for short campaigns, if that feature works in Alexander (I am certain it does), for characters like Pyrrhos to survive. In any other campaign we can't because of the time span of EB.

That would be nice.. Still I know 0 people that use short campaign's

Originally Posted by konny

Any skinners, modelers? If you please.

I can ''add'' any unit or 'skinn-it' but I don't make my own unit's in 3Dmax, what I was thinking is to ask EB team for hele in a way they upload their work that just can not fit in RTW engine, I had some dab signals at the start but who know's

Originally Posted by konny

That one is most interessting. We can for example forbid AS to attack Pontos, Armenia and Baktria and focus on Ptolemaioi. We can also forbid Makedonia and Epeiros to attack the slaves and so concentrate on the Greek theatre. We can then change their diplomatic stance to the slaves by script later when they have achieved their targets down there.

Those are good solution's - scout a bit in Alex-vanilla descr_start.txt and we may see more of those...

Originally Posted by konny

Unfortuantly we can only use this for the starting characters. There is no way to mod characters that might appear later in the game, like a Caesar or a Hannibal.

But we may take it on Pyrros, Gonatas ....etc,

Originally Posted by konny

I think the ALX.exe allows for a couple of fine "provincial campaigns" on the EB map, starting at some different points in history and focusing on specific characters and factions.

**konny** · 12-10-2007, 01:17

Originally Posted by Maksimus

That would be nice.. Still I know 0 people that use short campaign's

I would, given there are some that make sense. In fact I am usually playing "short campaigns", achieving the goals that are at hand, and than I am not in the mood to attack neutral factions just because they are there or to manage the Empire I have just conquered.

I can ''add'' any unit or 'skinn-it' but I don't make my own unit's in 3Dmax, what I was thinking is to ask EB team for hele in a way they upload their work that just can not fit in RTW engine, I had some dab signals at the start but who know's

I can't help with this one either.

But we may take it on Pyrros, Gonatas ....etc,

Yes, some of the Hellenic characters are certainly worth to be "unique" at the start, Pyrrhos in particular.

**Maksimus** · 12-10-2007, 02:52

Originally Posted by Perturabo

Thanks Maksimus, I wasn't aware the new thread existed.
I like the way LGK et al are thinking.

In my opinion there is no problem with the way the game goes for a Human Player, but the AI really needs a major revamp to prevent insane expansion. Historically Alexander the Great/the Romans were highly unusual in the speed they expanded at, generally it was not unusual for two cities to fight each other for hundreds of years with no concrete outcome (refer Greek Cities in particular).

The EBBS alteration's might not be the best and only solution for this - one solution (that will be used) is to add ''hidden_resource'' to region's for ''barracks'' level's - so, that way, we dont break the EB share system, instead we 'limit' Aegypt or AS vice versa use of elites and retraining capability of elites (note: in most of the cases in Aegypt or AS expansinon's, the problem is in autocalculation's that CPU uses when fighting against CPU), In that case - the army with most of the elites win's

So by making Royal/Army/City barrack's available in 50-40% of all reigon's instead of 100% -
we make better balance and more historic game

Originally Posted by Perturabo

I would also like to reiterate the idea of rebel city based generals being immortal, or replaced upon death. Otherwise the stack ups and wanders on death of said family member leaving the city open to easy conquest. This is particularly a problem in the east with the Indian cities being easy picking for AS or Baktria at that time.

That is going to be IN Alex-EB mod.. still, I support Konny's idea that 'some' region's that 'should' be taken by smaller faction's 'should-not' have immortal or spawned Fmember's

And personally - I am really for More Spawn's in India and China province.. also, as I have researched - all of those 4 province's (3 in India and one in China) were very powerfull and BIG - in scales of city and army.. In EB they are made as strong as.. Thermon for example, but that was not so - Indian province's should be absolute and hardest to take! As much as one China province there...

Originally Posted by Perturabo

I am also no great fan of having all factions being able to recruit all troops everywhere with time. Hats off to the EB team for doing a great and realistic job on where troop types are located in the world. Main problems imho, in no particular order:

That wont happend I am sure - the EB ''unit resource's'' are very well balanced - they are made for the perspective of next 1000 year's. Still, there is one big question of :

::WHY can't Getai use Makedonian factional Army barrack's in Pella right after conquest even if they can only recruit Thracian and Dacian Cavalry that can be considered to be drawn from the population that comes in Pella AFTER it is in Dacian hand's, also, Thracian cavalry that Macedon's are using can be considered to be more Dacian then Macedonian anyways

::

Originally Posted by Perturabo

1/Shoddy AI that backstabs Allies with no provocation or reason (coded to attack human players whenever possible or if said player has not been at war for a certain amount of time). I realise modders have little ability to control it however we can only dream :wall

:

We CAN control that in ALex engine. There is ''ai_do_not_attack_faction'' in ''descr_strat'', which prohibits the AI to attack certain factions, except when they're at war!

Originally Posted by Perturabo

2/ AI ability to recruit Elite troops instantly upon conquest of new territories i.e. Ptoly/Selucia in particular, leading to unstoppable superpowers.

That will be solved either by changing the whole EB share system or adding ''hidden-resource'' for Royal-Army barrack's to just some region's in AS - Aegypt reach - that way, even if the Aegypt takes Antioh or AS takes Alexandreia - those town's will be one of the only that would even be able to train elites

Originally Posted by Perturabo

3/ Crashes. I seem to get more crashes under Alex than RTW or BI, generally after a heroic battle. Needless to say that is frustrating after a 2 hour fight.

I know what you mean - still, there us NO WAY you get more CTD's on ALX.exe. Belive me, I two play generally heroic battle for 2 hour's and I got the CTD's on RTW.exe like 80% of the time - on ALX.exe just 20%

Hey! If you have a heroic screen - post it here !!https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=94993

Originally Posted by Perturabo

Those are the glaring weaknesses that I can see immediately, compared with the vanilla game shows just what a brilliant job the whole EB team have done. They certainly can be proud of this game

Please don't see any of this as being criticism.. if I didn't like the ideas or this game I wouldn't take the effort to post (I am at best a lazy git)

We would like to hear more from you and other gamer's + screen-shot's of AI expansion on Alex.exe with vanilla EB *txt is needed very much (so we can see what to alter

)

**Mouzafphaerre** · 12-10-2007, 04:38

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Maksimus, will you please increase your font size or switch your font face?

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**Maksimus** · 12-10-2007, 05:24

Sorry

It's just that I really like "Palatino Linotype'' font and various of colours...

I just can't help myself

**Maksimus** · 12-10-2007, 06:08

I have one (well two .) more solution that will add to gameplay

Originally posted by ''Barbarossa82'' in his ''Gold Mod Collection''. The term “extermination” sounds too cruel, and that was not the case in history

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=90798

''EXTERMINATION AND PUBLIC ORDER
The problem: In pure vanilla, you have the option to "exterminate" a settlement you conquer, and the game tells you how many people will be killed. Because of squalor, culture penalty and distance to capital, extermination can quickly become the rule rather than the exception as your empire grows. This not only makes it hard to roleplay a faction with any degree of humanity, but is quite unhistorical. Organised mass slaughter of the majority of a settlement's population was historically rare. More likely was a situation where a commander would allow his troops to basically run riot, looting, raping, pillaging and generally brutalising the settlement. The difference here is that a lot of the locals would just flee or be turned out of their homes rather than being rounded up, executed and buried in a mass grave as RTW's text and graphics imply.
The solution: Text, the "exterminator" line of traits and graphics have been changed to make it a bit more ambiguous what exactly is happening in the settlement you decide to exterminate. Instead of the option to "exterminate populace", you are now given the option to "suppress populace". The text descriptions, graphics and sounds are now more consistent with the spontaneous depredations of a victorious army set loose by their commander, rather than the 20th-century-style industrialised genocide implied by the original text. Of course if you're a complete git who loves the idea that your troops go around wiping out entire populations, the new text is ambiguous enough to allow you to believe that.''

Should we use this feature as on far more real and better solution for the game

AND ONE MORE THING!

I have already posted the BALLISTA solution's here - like add to exp_descr_units.txt 2 times more soldier's and an Officer and SBear and 2 times more ballistas in the unit - then lower the ballista attack by 2 times - and you have unit that LOOK's like a unit and make's sence to COST like HELL!

Yes, so that it would look like this..

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
;;;;;;;;EB Siege;;;;;;;;;;;;;
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

;343
type generic siege 3span
dictionary generic_siege_3span ; Triaspanai Katapeltai
category siege
class missile
voice_type General_1
soldier greek_artillery_crew, 48, 16, 0.85
officer ebofficer_hellenic_officer
officer ebofficer_hellenic_standardbearer
engine scorpion
attributes sea_faring
formation 1.5, 1.5, 3, 3, 3, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 8, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, knife, 0 ,0.04
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 12, 2, scorpion, 350, 30, siege_missile, blade, piercing, none, 25 ,1
stat_sec_attr ap, bp
stat_pri_armour 1, 7, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 0
stat_ground 0, 0, 0, 0
stat_mental 7, normal, untrained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 5000, 1900, 30, 40, 5000
ownership romans_brutii, romans_julii, numidia, macedon, saba, thrace, greek_cities, egypt, carthage, romans_scipii, parthia, seleucid, slave, pontus, armenia, gauls, britons, scythia, germans, dacia, spain

;344
type generic siege 3cubit
dictionary generic_siege_3cubit ; Triakubitai Katapeltai
category siege
class missile
voice_type General_1
soldier greek_artillery_crew, 32, 8, 0.85
officer ebofficer_hellenic_officer
officer ebofficer_hellenic_standardbearer
engine catapulta
attributes sea_faring
formation 1.5, 1.5, 3, 3, 3, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 8, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, knife, 0 ,0.04
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 20, 2, ballista, 280, 30, siege_missile, blade, piercing, none, 25 ,1
stat_sec_attr ap, bp, launching
stat_pri_armour 1, 7, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 0
stat_ground 0, 0, 0, 0
stat_mental 7, normal, untrained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 9000, 2500, 30, 40, 9000
ownership thrace, greek_cities, macedon, romans_julii, numidia, egypt, spain, romans_brutii, seleucid, saba, slave, carthage

;345
type generic siege 30mina
dictionary generic_siege_30mina ; Triakontaiminai Lithoboloi
category siege
class missile
voice_type General_1
soldier greek_artillery_crew, 60, 8, 0.85
officer ebofficer_hellenic_officer
officer ebofficer_hellenic_standardbearer
engine 30Mballista
attributes sea_faring
formation 1.5, 1.5, 3, 3, 3, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 8, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, knife, 0 ,0.04
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 20, 2, boulder, 300, 30, siege_missile, blade, blunt, none, 25 ,1
stat_sec_attr ap, bp, area,
stat_pri_armour 1, 7, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 0
stat_ground 0, 0, 0, 0
stat_mental 7, normal, untrained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 15000, 3200, 30, 40, 15000
ownership thrace, greek_cities, macedon, romans_julii, numidia, egypt, spain, romans_brutii, seleucid, saba, slave, carthage

;346
type generic siege 1talent
dictionary generic_siege_1talent ; Monotalanta Lithoboloi
category siege
class missile
voice_type General_1
soldier greek_artillery_crew, 60, 4, 0.85
officer ebofficer_hellenic_officer
officer ebofficer_hellenic_standardbearer
engine 1Tballista
attributes sea_faring
formation 1.5, 1.5, 3, 3, 3, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 8, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, knife, 0 ,0.04
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 38, 2, big_boulder, 240, 30, siege_missile, blade, blunt, none, 25 ,1
stat_sec_attr ap, bp, area, launching
stat_pri_armour 1, 7, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 0
stat_ground 0, 0, 0, 0
stat_mental 7, normal, untrained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 30000, 4500, 30, 40, 30000
ownership thrace, greek_cities, macedon, romans_julii, numidia, egypt, spain, romans_brutii, seleucid, saba, slave, carthage

;347
type roman artillery scorpio
dictionary roman_artillery_scorpio ; Vitruvian Scorpions
category siege
class missile
voice_type General_1
soldier greek_artillery_crew, 48, 16, 0.85
officer ebofficer_roman_centurion
officer ebofficer_roman_early_standard
engine scorpion
attributes sea_faring
formation 1.5, 1.5, 3, 3, 3, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 8, 1, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, knife, 0 ,0.04
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 14, 2, scorpion, 380, 30, siege_missile, blade, piercing, none, 25 ,1
stat_sec_attr ap, bp
stat_pri_armour 1, 6, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 0
stat_ground 0, 0, 0, 0
stat_mental 7, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 5000, 1900, 30, 40, 5000
ownership seleucid, slave

;348
type roman artillery catapulta
dictionary roman_artillery_catapulta ; Vitruvian catapulta
category siege
class missile
voice_type General_1
soldier greek_artillery_crew, 60, 16, 0.85
officer ebofficer_roman_centurion
officer ebofficer_roman_early_standard
engine catapulta
attributes sea_faring
formation 1.5, 1.5, 3, 3, 3, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 8, 1, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, knife, 0 ,0.04
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 12, 2, ballista, 303, 30, siege_missile, blade, piercing, none, 25 ,1
stat_sec_attr ap, bp, launching
stat_pri_armour 1, 7, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 0
stat_ground 0, 0, 0, 0
stat_mental 7, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 9000, 2500, 30, 40, 9000
ownership seleucid, slave

;349
type roman artillery 30mina
dictionary roman_artillery_30mina ; Vitruvian 30 mina stone thrower
category siege
class missile
voice_type General_1
soldier greek_artillery_crew, 60, 8, 0.85
officer ebofficer_roman_centurion
officer ebofficer_roman_early_standard
engine 30Mballista
attributes sea_faring
formation 1.5, 1.5, 3, 3, 3, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 8, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, knife, 0 ,0.04
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 32, 2, boulder, 303, 30, siege_missile, blade, blunt, none, 25 ,1
stat_sec_attr ap, bp, area,
stat_pri_armour 1, 7, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 0
stat_ground 0, 0, 0, 0
stat_mental 7, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 15000, 3200, 30, 40, 15000
ownership seleucid, slave

;350
type roman artillery 1talent
dictionary roman_artillery_1talent ; Vitruvian 1 talent stone thrower
category siege
class missile
voice_type General_1
soldier greek_artillery_crew, 60, 4, 0.85
officer ebofficer_roman_centurion
officer ebofficer_roman_early_standard
engine 1Tballista
attributes sea_faring
formation 1.5, 1.5, 3, 3, 3, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 8, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, knife, 0 ,0.04
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 42, 2, big_boulder, 270, 30, siege_missile, blade, blunt, none, 25 ,1
stat_sec_attr ap, bp, area, launching
stat_pri_armour 1, 7, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 0
stat_ground 0, 0, 0, 0
stat_mental 7, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 30000, 4500, 30, 40, 30000
ownership seleucid, slave

This is one solution for better look's of siege equipment and for the worth of Money you spend on it, This is one suggestion that add's officer's, more man power and more siege pieces for ballista unit's.. Do, In vice versa method - you are lowering the attack value verses the more amoun't of siege pieces added in EDU. In ancient times, numbers of units very much greater in siege unit's and they had officer's - or you can consider them to be enginerires.. And it would solve prob I have when I have to give 4500 per turn just for couple of peasant's with two siege gun's

Now, this looks like one siege :D

**Mouzafphaerre** · 12-11-2007, 03:45

.
Can't you increase the size then?

Code:

[font=Palatino Linotype][size=3][color=navy]text here[/color][/size][/font]

gives:

text here

As it is, I just skip your posts and I'm sure I'm missing a lot.

.

**Maksimus** · 12-11-2007, 03:53

Originally Posted by Mouzafphaerre

.
Can't you increase the size then?

Code:

[font=Palatino Linotype][size=3][color=navy]text here[/color][/size][/font]

gives:

text here

As it is, I just skip your posts and I'm sure I'm missing a lot.

.

Ill compromise to size=2

and I will re-size my post's in this thread

ok?

**Mouzafphaerre** · 12-11-2007, 04:26

.
I can't force you to do anything mate; just thought I could talk you into... Well, size 2 is the standard and just too small with Palatino Linotype. Even size 3 is barely adequate but 4 gets too big.

I can't read what you post in size 2 Palatino Linotype. Not only because of visual impairment of any sort but...it's pathetic to try to focus and decipher that stuff.

.

**Maksimus** · 12-11-2007, 04:35

I just resized my every post to size 2, I can't do it again to 3, ok, for future post's I'll see to it ...

Still.. you can fold Ctrl+Mouse scroll down to see it

3 is really to big..

**MarcusAureliusAntoninus** · 12-11-2007, 04:42

I have to agree with Mouzafphaerre, I have skipped many of your posts because don't want to struggle trying to read it.

**Mouzafphaerre** · 12-11-2007, 05:22

.
It's all your preference but I'd rather you use size 3 from now on, if you wish to stick to Palatino Linotype, so that we can read what you say. No need to edit old posts, they're past now...

Thanks.

.

**Maksimus** · 12-11-2007, 07:39

This is because you don't read my post's..
But I will use coloured font's no matter what

**Maksimus** · 12-11-2007, 08:14

Anyway's, we need more screen shots of advanced Alex AI engine in battle and Campaign - so please post here or in the Alexander EB thread so I can use them and add them as an example on TWC and here - that way we encourage to use Alex.exe

Thank you!

note: I had no time for long move's so I have no more screen's by now

And Antonius, Mouzafphaerre, you made me change my font size - you better be using ALX.exe

**Mouzafphaerre** · 12-11-2007, 12:10

.

I'll try it once I'm done with my current campaign.

.

**Perturabo** · 12-12-2007, 22:09

Unfortunately I tend to mess with other factions a lot during my games.. i.e. bribes and military intervention to keep factions in check when required, AS, Ptolies and Rome usually lose a few citeis to keep them under control.
Spreading plague is also quite an acceptable form of population control for enemies

As such the results do not really show any AI behaviour, more my view on how the world should be.

Might run a Casse campaign over Xmas and see what happens.

**Maksimus** · 12-13-2007, 03:19

I have been testing with advance Alex features and I have screenshots
I used Casse for 'end-turn' test campaign on VH campaign and Medium battle difficulty on vanilla EB 10 script's (as well as the new EBBS) with NO changes to ANY *txt, file

The advance AI feature I used are 'tweaked' in descr_start.txt :: as :: ''ai_do_not_attack_faction'' - that makes a clear order to one faction - not to attack following faction's unless they are already at war or If the other faction's attack's..
The feature was used for the following faction's as writen:
; ---------------------------------------------------------
; ######### thrace - Epeiros #########
; ---------------------------------------------------------

faction thrace, sailor napoleon
ai_do_not_attack_faction numidia, egypt (Aegypt, Carthage)
That really made Epeiros fight only for Greece and Italy, at one time they even besiege Rome, but were eventuly driven out of Italy by Romanoi.. Still, one of the reasons I made them not to attack Carthage is because their fleet would blok some Carthaginian fleet out of a blue with no reason. Anyway's, Epeiros should not have ''ai_do_not_attack'' limitation's in the future because when Aegypt reacheg Greece there is no war among Epeiros and E
Aegypt at all

; ---------------------------------------------------------
; ######### egypt - Karthadast #########
; ---------------------------------------------------------

faction egypt, sailor caesar
ai_do_not_attack_faction thrace, numidia, macedon, greek_cities (Epeiros, Makedonia, Greek's)

One faction that is after Aegypt the strongest - they are sieging Rome by now... I konw that player's will like it... I am sure that ''ai_do_not_attack'' faction's had influence on those map move's by Carthage..
; ---------------------------------------------------------
; ######### romans_julii - Arche Seleukideia #########
; ---------------------------------------------------------

faction romans_julii, balanced stalin
ai_do_not_attack_faction romans_scipii, romans_brutii, carthage, parthia, saba, greek_cities (Armenia, Pontos, Baktria, Pahlava, Greek's, Saba)

For AS this command line is very important, It made AS NOT attack not one of these faction's right to their end, and it helped AI develop, well maybe greek_cities should not be there

; ---------------------------------------------------------
; ######### numidia - Ptolemaioi #########
; ---------------------------------------------------------

faction numidia, religious caesar
ai_do_not_attack_faction romans_scipii, romans_brutii, carthage, parthia, thrace, egypt, saba (Pontos, Baktria, Pahlava, Carthage, Saba, Epeiros)
In the case of Aegypt - they have destroyed Seleucid's and Pontos (after Pontos attacked them - that is the case with Armenia too)..
This faction is one that is really overpowerd in a epic sence, they are win in Palestine and MidEast right away and then just use the money to go further, After they have reached Babylon and Seleukeia - nothing could stop the 'Share System' - they just went on to retake all AS empire in a couple of turn's - City after City, that was the end ot the game.. In the mean while they cam into Thrace all the way to today's Ukraine- Aegypt is one faction that shoul be worked on..

; ---------------------------------------------------------
; ######### macedon #########
; ---------------------------------------------------------

faction macedon, fortified stalin
ai_do_not_attack_faction numidia, seleucid, egypt

The Macedon's are very weak in Greece and during the game, They are the most underpowerd faction in Greece, They loose Corintos right away because Gonatas Is fighting in Epeiros - yes, Gonatas gathers his Army - leaves to fight Pyrros - win's in Epeiros for years and then he must go back to defend Demetrias against KH, After that he can only loose in Athen's. After that he goes to fight in Thrace and in the mean while Makedonia looses Pelly to Pyrros

The good news is that the command line in descr_start.txt work's perfectly! So the AI would never attack first if you order him not to! And yes, after one faction that was protected by the command attack's the other that is ordered not to attack - well, the war will go on.. There should never be aponited vice versa ai_command's - because the two factions will never Fight (In this case I made a mistake with Epeir and Aegypt - and I just did not see it

)

IT IS 224BC don't let the 14AD date fool you (I had some loading prob's)