ALEXANDER EB

[Lgk]

You don't suppose that Getai would destory Macedonian Army barracks and then build their own for yers - I am sure they would use them and develop one military revolution fo their own kind

I don't like idea of sharing barracks between different cultures (honestly, i don't like any idea which intentionally makes life easier for human players). And remember, that using/building barracks is an abstraction, no way real-life conquerors can recruit their core troops immediately upon conquest of predominately different culture territory, it takes years to migrate enough military settlers in (or convert loyal locals to conqueror's customs). I believe long building times represent these difficulties well.

[konny]

I would rather make the recruitement of the local militia easyer. We had that topic before, assuming that a conquerer who is moving far beyond his homelands would immediatly grap what armed men he could find on the spot to have a garrison and fill up his ranks.

[Lgk]

I would rather make the recruitement of the local militia easyer. We had that topic before, assuming that a conquerer who is moving far beyond his homelands would immediatly grap what armed men he could find on the spot to have a garrison and fill up his ranks.

And i would rather make it harder. Anything is good that slow down expansion to historical rate. Unfortunately, RTW engine has no such thing as "troop loyalty", nor the city loyalty level is associated with possibilities for troop recruitment. How can we tell if region populace likes conqueror (and/or his people) enough to fight for him? Do they see him as liberator, as useful ally, or as another opressor? RTW can't represent this.

[Maksimus]

And i would rather make it harder. Anything is good that slow down expansion to historical rate. Unfortunately, RTW engine has no such thing as "troop loyalty", nor the city loyalty level is associated with possibilities for troop recruitment. How can we tell if region populace likes conqueror (and/or his people) enough to fight for him? Do they see him as liberator, as useful ally, or as another opressor? RTW can't represent this.

I would rather make it harder too but the "troop loyalty" issue was discussed more time's over.. And we can't tell if region populace likes conqueror (and/or his people) enough to fight for him - but what we may say is that it this case - those are REGIONAL troops - not factional so you and I and anyone can consider them to fight for money - like in the war's of the Successor's states..

But - yes, You are right 100% if we are talking about factional troops.. But if you think that Hellenic native phalanx officer's had a hard time of filling the ranks of their units - I would say no.. really.. I would say yes if Macedons are in Germania or North-East Africa or India - but not in the places that are MARKED in Recruitment Viewer for Native Phalanx..

The point is that you can't retrain units in AREAS that are not mented for that unit to be trained - like in Germania or the Stepes.. And one more thing is here at hand... you know.. When Napoleon at Russia he took about 650 000 men of wich about 180 000 were from the Germanic states of wich about 50 000 of Serbs for Austro-Hungarian Empire .. see, those Serbs even had to go or loose their famillies, and that goes too for many german's...

And.. in those Ancient times the most important were the CULTURES not the rulers by my opinion - all ruler's were tyrants mostly that forced the population to fight to some extend - that extend is wery well done in the Ecruitment Viewer - the '' another opressor '' issues are already implemented by the resources that 'give' an option to train certan units..

please look at the Recruitment Viewr.. anyways - we don't have to implement whole barracks system or any part of it ... it's just that this way WE MOTIVATE players to realy take Alexandria with another Greek culture..

And пријатељу PLEASE HELP more in the BI features.. get some sleep and then type

be well my friend!

[Cantu]

Hello, I am really interested in playing the best EB experience I can get (with the alex.exe), however I do not own the Alexander expansion. I've browsed some sites and might end up buying online, but I would rather buy a CD. Does anyone know where I can get it without much hassle ?(Either CD or online.) Thanks in advance

[Maksimus]

We could help you if you type where you live.. I guess in US? right?.. Well I live in SE Europe.. so I can't help you much... But I think that official SEGA site's are ok..

[Maksimus]

I suggest series of measure's to 'take down' Aegypt expansion - like, weak the start position of the Aegypt army by adding more unit's to Seleucid's wich will make them force Aegypt to defend at the start and that should prolong the AS life.. In any case - AS are loosing over to the Aegypt in any case

Second, I really think that Makedonia is uderpowered - read the report up..
So they should never loose Corintos that fast and Pella should have Stone Wall because of the Pyrros elephant (wich is very usefull if you play Epeiros)

Also, the testing's are clear about the massive use of royal and army barrack's by the AI - that should be 'resource' limited to 30% of the region's so Aegypt wont gain mad pace after 240bc when all Seleucid's town's already have Army barrack's (due to the share system). If we make 'resource' limit's it will further make AS postition stronger and therefore more less likely to loose at the start

[Cantu]

Well I live in the Dominican Republic right now so buying it online is not really an option. However, I will visit Texas shortly so if any of you guys knows were to get it I'll appreciate if you can tell me.

[konny]

Second, I really think that Makedonia is uderpowered - read the report up..
So they should never loose Corintos that fast and Pella should have Stone Wall because of the Pyrros elephant (wich is very usefull if you play Epeiros)

I have made some successes with a simple change in the descr_strat.txt:

I had placed the Makedonian main army between Pyrrhos and Pella. What does it do?

When both are played by the AI the Maks will have their turn first; Antigonos drafts the garrison from Pella to his army and attacks the Epeirote army. That battle was in all, save for one, tests won by Makedonia. Now the Epeirote army retreats to the mountains and is not strong enough to make a new attack to soon (they will do, but until then the Makedonians have enough time to reinforce their position in Pella).

The AI also withdraws the army next to Korinth and place it in Demtrias. That is quite a clever move because as long as it can not take Athens in short it will not be able to reinforce the troops on the Peleponnes; any forces down there are doomed as soon as Greece starts moving.

So, Makedonia loses Korinth but ends up with a much stronger position in Demetrias and Pella.

Here is an example of MiniMe's campaing around 200BC played with this alteration:




In my games too Makedonia is in most of the cases able to hold her position in Pella this way, especially when they start to retrain the forces.

[Danzifuge]

does anyone know where i can find the original loading screens and music for EB? i forgot to back em up, and i really like the old ones better.

[Maksimus]

edit: Oh but dont worry, I will upload new ones based on EB screen competitions in a matter of hours (you will like them I think)

[Maksimus]

I have updated the main post!

BETA 2 is a realease candidate

[Maksimus]

Can any admin merge this discussion replies with the active thread (coz some issues we need yet to address)

Thank you

[Maksimus]

I would rather make the recruitement of the local militia easyer. We had that topic before, assuming that a conquerer who is moving far beyond his homelands would immediatly grap what armed men he could find on the spot to have a garrison and fill up his ranks.

My posts are too long.. I know.. one does not read it whole maybe

Konny.. do you have a recruitment viewer?

If you do - you can see my intentions.. but anyway.. we can talk about it a bit..

In the case you mentioned, one general far from homeland would only be able to fill up his ranks according to UNIT - according to the 'resource' - that means he could fill up 'some' low-end unit's ranks in the best and most case those are peltasts - but NOT elites or medium units that we are so afraid of..

The example I have added to the Epeiros is clear really.. They can reach INDIA and can only retrain their low-end troops (some of them) - that means troops that can't win battles for India or Media or the Stepe's .. but can't use elites - unless they take Successor's capital's in wich case they could only profit some units.. see?
And getai could reach Sparta but could only have ragionall units they would have to develop first

Just look at the recruitment viewer? I really think that is clear

I agree for militia do.. That could be done easilly in adding making all share 'use' of regional barracks or connecting it to other structure - like town_hall's or palace's..
personally I would like any faction to use any other faction's regional barrack's wich is alot more troop btw then using your barracks for the core - factional troops..

It is just a matter of resources... so we can add recruitment to any building or change anything...

note for konny.. and you see that I and Lgk have the same signatures.. you could just add one..

[konny]

Oh, okay. I'm probably not that interested in an EB mini-mod that's geared for VH/VH, and am pretty concerned about letting the AI develop golden stacks of anything, since although the human player might capture such a city, the AI definitely wouldn't.

It was allready said, but just to ensure: The AI is retraining, but not everything, everytime, everywhere. It also seems to merge, leave the units as they are and build new ones instead of retraining. I have no idea what influence that decision.

I had so far two occasions in which the AI was constantly retraining: the one was Pella, with its "monster army" and the other occasion is Taras. But the AI is also moving these forces away when the town is not constantly threatened. That happened to the retrained Baktrian "militia force" of what I had posted a screenshot in the other thread, and that had now also happened to the garrison in Pella, where I only could find one full unit of 2x gold Petzhetairoi of the old garrion while the rest were all 'fresh' levy-class units.

My posts are too long.. I know.. one does not read it whole maybe

Well, I am to apologize if I had brought up something that was allready discussed. It's getting close to Christmas and the customers are running amok, so I had not so much time today to read the entire thread.

Konny.. do you have a recruitment viewer?

I launch that tool more often than EB itself, planning my next army in every spare minute.

In the case you mentioned, one general far from homeland would only be able to fill up his ranks according to UNIT - according to the 'resource' - that means he could fill up 'some' low-end unit's ranks in the best and most case those are peltasts - but NOT elites or medium units that we are so afraid of..

OK, let me step in here the first time: I am not afraid of the elites. In fact I am happy when they are offering me anything better than Pantodapoi or Lugoae. And since I often outnumber the AI, not so often with the ALX.exe, I must admit, I don't mind when the overall quality of the AI units is better than that of my army.

The example I have added to the Epeiros is clear really.. They can reach INDIA and can only retrain their low-end troops (some of them) - that means troops that can't win battles for India or Media or the Stepe's .. but can't use elites - unless they take Successor's capital's in wich case they could only profit some units.. see?

That's the fate of the Epeirotes living on the Adriatic shores, I would say. They have no businness to hang around in India. And yes, they get Phalanxes and Thureophoroi from the Succesor major towns because there the needed number of Hellenics is living used to fight in that manner.

May be that example is not so obvious because the Epeirote are somewhat Alexandrish and he was in India. But send them the other way. What means does a top level Casse MIC have for Epeiros? No one there has ever heard of Linothorax, long pikes, fighting in formations, heavy cavalry and the like what makes the Epeirote military machine.

And getai could reach Sparta but could only have ragionall units they would have to develop first

Yes, that "develop" in EB gives me a little headache, because I don't see what the Getai must develop in Sparta to make the Spartans fight as Hoplites. But there must be a way to distinguish the boni of the different governements, and the only way I can think of is spliting the army into "locals" and "factionals".

It is just a matter of resources... so we can add recruitment to any building or change anything...

But, is that really needed?

[Maksimus]

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"]Konny.. My english is much worse than your's so I have probs in explaining what I think..

The point of my post's that is based on 'tweaking' the ''exp_descr_units.txt'' was already tested by myself in various occasions in my modds for RTW.. I call it Army-system.. Now..My mod is very popular ones in my country just due to that system.. so..but.. ufff..

I am getting sleepy..Ok.. Just trust me on this.. We will test it.. ok?
I will finish those tweaks in two day's and upload it here so we can discuss it .. I am sure it will be fine.. This is what I will mod so it can be tested a bit..


1- Making Faction's capitols start with Army Barrack's (or Royal in case of Seleucid's and Aegypt).. + na army barrack's in Seleucidia maybe ? but we shoud sure make Spartans a royl one so one can use them as they were used against Pyrros

2- Make factions share 'use' of barracks but not 'upgrading' them (so the EB share system persist's)

On one side: Hellenes shold share 'use' (epir,mak,kh,bak,as,aegypt) and on the other side barb's (celt's,germania,dacia,spain), the nomads (sar,saka,parthia) and the last - the easterns (pont,armenia,parthia).. Now, Saba, Pontos and Armenia can 'use' hellenic and carthaginina faction's barrack's (as one small faction would have had to use!). Parthia should use only AS's, Baktrian and Aegypt's barrack's, And All barb's could use ''civilised'' factional barracks in the City/Army/Royal level - and that would help them with almost NO UNIT's AT all..

Also, there are some +1 or in royal +2 bonuses (for law and trade) that could be altered

3- This is most important, I will make this test version adding the construction times for barrack's nad Palace's + 4 to + 6 times ..

4- I will add the system for regionall barrack's so anyone can 'use' anyone's regional barrack's (so, here too, the EB share system persist's )

I wiil make this in one-two days and post here for tes't - JUST test's .. Ok?

note: Lgk.. for you I will add the manual so you can - copy paste it -- or 7z ?

Ok... Of I go!

[Lgk]

2- Make factions share 'use' of barracks but not 'upgrading' them (so the EB share system persist's)

On one side: Hellenes shold share 'use' (epir,mak,kh,bak,as,aegypt) and on the other side barb's (celt's,germania,dacia,spain), the nomads (sar,saka,parthia) and the last - the easterns (pont,armenia,parthia)..

4- I will add the system for regionall barrack's so anyone can 'use' anyone's regional barrack's (so, here too, the EB share system persist's

Please, no! I don't like shared "auxiliary barracks" in XGM, and definitely don't wish to see such things in EB. Neither with factional MICs. As i said, rebuilding "barracks" is rather an abstraction representing period of stabilization in recently conquered region. In that context, any hindrance to fast expansion is good imo. Come to think, greeks/macedons/epirotes/etc squabbled each other for centuries, and never one "faction" emerged as total victor, crushing all opposition permanently - that is, until very roman conquest. Because of RTW limitations, small patch of ground like Greece can be blitzed in just one year. This is even more aggravated by the lack of regions there in EB (XGM has a much better map in most respects... but that's another story). Maybe only post-marian Rome deserves such bonus as ability to use other factions MICs.

I mean, first and foremost we should think how to delay human player (while not getting him killed early, except that rush should be punishable by death imo - hard to implement, but worth trying) and provide more interesting mid-to-late game experience rather than speed up the AI expansion.

note: Lgk.. for you I will add the manual so you can - copy paste it -- or 7z~

Any way you like.

[Maksimus]

Please, no! I don't like shared "auxiliary barracks" in XGM, and definitely don't wish to see such things in EB. Neither with factional MICs. As i said, rebuilding "barracks" is rather an abstraction representing period of stabilization in recently conquered region. In that context, any hindrance to fast expansion is good imo. Come to think, greeks/macedons/epirotes/etc squabbled each other for centuries, and never one "faction" emerged as total victor, crushing all opposition permanently - that is, until very roman conquest. Because of RTW limitations, small patch of ground like Greece can be blitzed in just one year. This is even more aggravated by the lack of regions there in EB (XGM has a much better map in most respects... but that's another story). Maybe only post-marian Rome deserves such bonus as ability to use other factions MICs.

I mean, first and foremost we should think how to delay human player (while not getting him killed early, except that rush should be punishable by death imo - hard to implement, but worth trying) and provide more interesting mid-to-late game experience rather than speed up the AI expansion.


Any way you like.

Ok.. ok...ok... I will stop working on it this instance
my god But you must give me proof that you have had a look at Recruitment Viewer - so I know that you are not thinkig that sharing maens what it ment in vanilla?

...No matter.. ok. I am stoping my work on barrack system right now and I am back to vanilla *txt... What now?
What do you propose?? How do we delay human player so that it would be ok??

(note: We should add those changes to Horse Archer's that would give them 1,2 or 1,5 hit points that should reflect auto-calculations among CPU faction's)

What else? Do you want unit tweak's or some *txt_files changes?

ok

::WE HAVE::

Changes in the EBBS script so we can control money inflows.. and AI expansion's with all features that could be tested Lgk, see with ]Konny that we have ONE way.. for testing.. you know ; I am waithing for you two to go out with something so I can test it like upload your done EBBS files here... ok?

Thing's that should be in EBBS script are the added Army barracks for all factions in the capitol's (exept AS that would have one more in Seleucidia) and Royal barrack's for Alexandria and Antiochus and Sparta (so that Spartan's can be used right away)... and building's for Nomad's that would have level ''royalh'' or ''highkingc'' while I think the Saka should be the strongest there...

In export_descr_building's I will add bonuses of law and trade (like +1) for Army and Royal barracks, I also think that Walls shoud have a small bonus, then the Academy.. Here The Academic building's have had one major importance for all in one city - MA Antonius saw that and added it to City Mod.. that is very nice..

Also adding a wall to Pella or Pergam and Armenian and Baktrian and Pontos capital - would be good, also mine's in Pergamum, And Sidon and the Western Province of Armenia - so we can support small faction's players more..

And Palaces should have + 5 or + 8 times longer to build.. so we don't end with super Imperial Cities after 100 turn's - there should not be alot of Huge Cities ...

And Mercenaries should have atleast +1 expirience that would bring realism..

Now... I want comments on these issues please (note: all comment's are welcome but Konny and Lkg are the ones that are needed here )

And one more thing - Anything you want to be added or modded - just say..

[Maksimus]

I don't like idea of sharing barracks between different cultures (honestly, i don't like any idea which intentionally makes life easier for human players). And remember, that using/building barracks is an abstraction, no way real-life conquerors can recruit their core troops immediately upon conquest of predominately different culture territory, it takes years to migrate enough military settlers in (or convert loyal locals to conqueror's customs). I believe long building times represent these difficulties well.

No.. no.. greeks-greeks barbs-barbs it's just that Getai were an example.. anyway's - they have only possibility of usin 2 Unit's no matter what! And the point is that Celt's for example don't have a bonus of Royal Barracks in Seleucidia at all or in Pella or Athenai - the celt's just don't even have an option to raise any army in greece - exept regional - and that needs to be build

And cultures don't share as such.. they just 'use' ones barracks and can't upgrade them .. like in the cases in history when Nikator killed Thracian King and took Thracian army - and then Ptolomy son kiled Seleucid in a tent and then took the same thracian army and made himself a king of Macedon.. just after he came from Asia Minor into Greece and that army was still fighting after that for Pyrros I think..
And Gonatas had problems when his army left him just before the finall fight agains Pyrros - the whole Macedonian army just swiched sides! And made Pyrros their king.. and after Pyrros was dead they went back to Gonatas..

There are proofs for this..

Anyway.. the game is even harder for the player with this army system.. when AI could use some enemies barracks - but see, the point is to make Less Army and Royal barracks as a result - that way the chances for retraining options by human would be 0 or +1

YOU SHOULD LOOK on the Recruitment Viewer

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=93502