ALEXANDER EB

[Aper]

Hi Maksimus thanx for your work, but can you post a change log of your mod? I mean something more specifical than the new features reported in the first page... I've read all your post, but I want to know what exactly the ALXEB team has changed so far before messing with my installation... However I'm using alex.exe in my bartixian game and is very good

[Maksimus]

Hi Maksimus thanx for your work, but can you post a change log of your mod? I mean something more specifical than the new features reported in the first page... I've read all your post, but I want to know what exactly the ALXEB team has changed so far before messing with my installation... However I'm using alex.exe in my bartixian game and is very good

That will be done fully for the finall

I can just say that I will upload *backup* files (vanilla EB ones) so that anyone can just go back to vanilla EB if the mod is not the best solution for him.

But let me be short and imprecise a bit ( ),
Battles and campaigns are now harder and I can say that they are now a serious challenge even for a veteran players (like me ),
Rebels are stronger (but by winning some you win over some nice resources), World is more developed overall in the start (but further development is quite slower now due to expansion control), ..
There are some new units (for EB 10 I think we will add no more, one for dacia, two for hellenes and one mercenary + chinese units)..
Stepe Cavalry units now have +30% men (for the same price) in their units vice versa Hellenic and/or Roman/African/Barb.. - Plus I must say that stepe will now hardly be conquerd by some ''infantry'' faction thanks to the fixed devaluated autocalcs and to stronger cavalry overall in the mod..
There are some very very nice China mercenaries recruitable only in Sulek (they are very cost effective..but with somewhat less armour)..
And Egypt will not spoil the game conquering all AS in Middle East as early as 260bc... neither will KH destroy Macedonia as a rulle..

Well, I said I will be somewhat imprecise - sorry - more to come soon

[Spartan21BS]

Hey guys, I want to play Alexander EB, but want to make sure I know how to install it right.
To make sure this is the right way it needs to be done-
1. install fresh RTW
2. Patch 1.3 then 1.5
3.Install BI
4.Install Alexander add-on(is this the Alexander expansion that CA or put out, or the Alexander add on that is for download here?)
5. The install EB 1.0
Then change the EB.10 ti ALX.exe in the shortcut line.

Sorry for the ignorant questions, but I havent dealt with EB or mods in a year or so and am not sure how it works. It sounds great though, can't wait to play it.

Thanks guys.

[Danzifuge]

just tried out the beta2.

script error. descr_rebel_factions. line 2178 column 21. rebel unit type 'ALXEB hellenic diadokhoi phalanx' not found in unit_db

no other mods running. didnt think i would need to uninstall the previous alexander with eb mod (the first download link). figured all the files would be overwritten. could that be the problem? i'm using the same target shortcut as with the original mod too.

also, i like the money assistance you give the ai. instead of giving em a big wad of dough, you went with just enough to keep em technically out of the red.

[Maksimus]

Hey guys, I want to play Alexander EB, but want to make sure I know how to install it right.
To make sure this is the right way it needs to be done-
1. install fresh RTW
2. Patch 1.3 then 1.5
3.Install BI
4.Install Alexander add-on(is this the Alexander expansion that CA or put out, or the Alexander add on that is for download here?)
5. The install EB 1.0
Then change the EB.10 ti ALX.exe in the shortcut line.

Sorry for the ignorant questions, but I havent dealt with EB or mods in a year or so and am not sure how it works. It sounds great though, can't wait to play it.

Thanks guys.

Actually

You only need RTW +1,3 +1,5 (patches) + Alexander add on + EB 10 + EB 10 official fixes + The transition files as I call them (those that you need only to use ALX.exe engine - no the Mod We make) or you can just download our mod (but you might waith for a week and the finall ) + and only then you change the shortcut

note: if you install BI after RTW - you dont need 1,3 and 1,5 patches because they are included in BI.. and after BI you can install Alexander and then the rest

just tried out the beta2.

script error. descr_rebel_factions. line 2178 column 21. rebel unit type 'ALXEB hellenic diadokhoi phalanx' not found in unit_db

no other mods running. didnt think i would need to uninstall the previous alexander with eb mod (the first download link). figured all the files would be overwritten. could that be the problem? i'm using the same target shortcut as with the original mod too.

also, i like the money assistance you give the ai. instead of giving em a big wad of dough, you went with just enough to keep em technically out of the red.

Check if you have copied all into correct folders and offcourse you must overwrite all

But as a temporary solution, do this: open ''descr_sm_factions.txt''

Finde this part:

rebel_type Ione_Mysia //greeks Mysia
category peasant_revolt
chance 3
description Ione_Mysia
;unit greek infantry taxeis phalangitai
unit hellenistic infantry heavy pezhetairoi
unit ALXEB hellenic diadokhoi phalanx
unit ALXEB hellenistic infantry heavy diadokhoi pezhetairoi
unit greek cavalry mistophoroi hippeis
unit greek skirmisher akontistai
unit greek missile sphendenotai

Make it like this

rebel_type Ione_Mysia //greeks Mysia
category peasant_revolt
chance 3
description Ione_Mysia
;unit greek infantry taxeis phalangitai
unit hellenistic infantry heavy pezhetairoi
;unit ALXEB hellenic diadokhoi phalanx
unit ALXEB hellenistic infantry heavy diadokhoi pezhetairoi
unit greek cavalry mistophoroi hippeis
unit greek skirmisher akontistai
unit greek missile sphendenotai

[Danzifuge]

Actually

You only need RTW +1,3 +1,5 (patches) + Alexander add on + EB 10 + EB 10 official fixes + The transition files as I call them (those that you need only to use ALX.exe engine - no the Mod We make) or you can just download our mod (but you might waith for a week and the finall ) + and only then you change the shortcut

note: if you install BI after RTW - you dont need 1,3 and 1,5 patches because they are included in BI.. and after BI you can install Alexander and then the rest




Check if you have copied all into correct folders and offcourse you must overwrite all

But as a temporary solution, do this: open ''descr_sm_factions.txt''

Finde this part:

rebel_type Ione_Mysia //greeks Mysia
category peasant_revolt
chance 3
description Ione_Mysia
;unit greek infantry taxeis phalangitai
unit hellenistic infantry heavy pezhetairoi
unit ALXEB hellenic diadokhoi phalanx
unit ALXEB hellenistic infantry heavy diadokhoi pezhetairoi
unit greek cavalry mistophoroi hippeis
unit greek skirmisher akontistai
unit greek missile sphendenotai

Make it like this

rebel_type Ione_Mysia //greeks Mysia
category peasant_revolt
chance 3
description Ione_Mysia
;unit greek infantry taxeis phalangitai
unit hellenistic infantry heavy pezhetairoi
;unit ALXEB hellenic diadokhoi phalanx
unit ALXEB hellenistic infantry heavy diadokhoi pezhetairoi
unit greek cavalry mistophoroi hippeis
unit greek skirmisher akontistai
unit greek missile sphendenotai

there is no rebel_type in this file. in fact i think you're looking at the wrong file all together. everything in this file goes like this:

faction romans_julii
culture egyptian
symbol ../eb/data/models_strat/symbol_julii.CAS
rebel_symbol ../eb/data/models_strat/symbol_julii_rebel.CAS
primary_colour red 210, green 210, blue 210
secondary_colour red 189, green 189, blue 189
loading_logo loading_screen/symbols/symbol128_julii.tga
standard_index 0
logo_index 23
small_logo_index 248
triumph_value 5
intro_movie ../eb/data/fmv/intros/placeholder_intro.wmv
victory_movie ../eb/data/fmv/lose/julii_eliminated.wmv
defeat_movie ../eb/data/fmv/lose/julii_eliminated.wmv
death_movie fmv/death/death_julii_grass_320x240.wmv
custom_battle_availability yes
can_sap yes
prefers_naval_invasions no

descr_rebel_factions is the file i believe you were talking about. and there is no ione_mysia in that file.

EDIT: ok i think we're copasetic now. i checked the eabm files and in descr_rebel_factions, ione_mysia is in them, so it must not have overwritten that one. strange how the beautiful loading screen and everything made it. gonna give it another shot.

EDIT2: same error. hmm. oh, you know what also. everytime i get that error the rebel_factions file reverts back to what appears to be the rtw version. huh?

EDIT3: upon closer inspection the unit mentioned is in your eabm file, so i believe it is not a matter of being missing from there but from the "unit_db" as i described the script error above. there is no unit_db file, so it must be inside some file... somewherrrre.

EDIT4: i did a search for unit_db in the forums and it showed up in two threads concerning m2tw. ummm. this mod is for rtw right?

[Spartan21BS]

Actually

You only need RTW +1,3 +1,5 (patches) + Alexander add on + EB 10 + EB 10 official fixes + The transition files as I call them (those that you need only to use ALX.exe engine - no the Mod We make) or you can just download our mod (but you might waith for a week and the finall ) + and only then you change the shortcut

note: if you install BI after RTW - you dont need 1,3 and 1,5 patches because they are included in BI.. and after BI you can install Alexander and then the rest




Check if you have copied all into correct folders and offcourse you must overwrite all

But as a temporary solution, do this: open ''descr_sm_factions.txt''

Finde this part:

rebel_type Ione_Mysia //greeks Mysia
category peasant_revolt
chance 3
description Ione_Mysia
;unit greek infantry taxeis phalangitai
unit hellenistic infantry heavy pezhetairoi
unit ALXEB hellenic diadokhoi phalanx
unit ALXEB hellenistic infantry heavy diadokhoi pezhetairoi
unit greek cavalry mistophoroi hippeis
unit greek skirmisher akontistai
unit greek missile sphendenotai

Make it like this

rebel_type Ione_Mysia //greeks Mysia
category peasant_revolt
chance 3
description Ione_Mysia
;unit greek infantry taxeis phalangitai
unit hellenistic infantry heavy pezhetairoi
;unit ALXEB hellenic diadokhoi phalanx
unit ALXEB hellenistic infantry heavy diadokhoi pezhetairoi
unit greek cavalry mistophoroi hippeis
unit greek skirmisher akontistai
unit greek missile sphendenotai

So actually for the install you dont need BI at all if you dont want it? Does it make a difference for better or worse if you use your mod with BI?

And what are the EB10 official fixes and ALX transition files?

Will all of these extra steps be taken care of if I wait for the final?

Again, sorry for all the questions, and thanks for your help.

[Maksimus]

So actually for the install you dont need BI at all if you dont want it? Does it make a difference for better or worse if you use your mod with BI?

And what are the EB10 official fixes and ALX transition files?

Will all of these extra steps be taken care of if I wait for the final?

Again, sorry for all the questions, and thanks for your help.

You dont really need BI and it does not make any difference for ALX.exe

here are the fixes you NEED to play
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=93820


And here is the thread that says what are ''transition files'' anyway it is in the top of the page

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=94861

Yes, all extra steps will be taken care of for the finall and the whole ALXEB team will have a vote! - You should waith for the finall or influence the finall by testing and suggesting this Beta!

[Spartan21BS]

You dont really need BI and it does not make any difference for ALX.exe

here are the fixes you NEED to play
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=93820


And here is the thread that says what are ''transition files'' anyway it is in the top of the page

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=94861

Yes, all extra steps will be taken care of for the finall and the whole ALXEB team will have a vote! - You should waith for the finall or influence the finall by testing and suggesting this Beta!

Thank you again for all your help. I cannot wait for the final one, it should be great. Since it is only a week or so I will probably wait, since it should be easier to install so I dont mess anything up.

Thanks again, good luck with the final release.

[Danzifuge]

i finally got it to work. oh stupid me. i was running a campagin/custom battle switcher tool (so as to have all available units in custom battles) and didnt even think twice about it. seems you haven't updated sp game edu and mp game edu to match the export_descr_unit file. you're gonna have to at least update the mp game edu if people want to use all the units in custom battle. also, loading times are EXTREMELY slow now. like twice as slow initial loading and three-four times slower to load a game/battle. my cursor won't even move for a minute after loading and freezes up for another minute or so. i have a really crappy computer. i could deal with eb's crawling but this insane. i thought it was supposed to be uhhh... faster, acccording to everything i've been hearing

You dont really need BI and it does not make any difference for ALX.exe

here are the fixes you NEED to play
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=93820


And here is the thread that says what are ''transition files'' anyway it is in the top of the page

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=94861

Yes, all extra steps will be taken care of for the finall and the whole ALXEB team will have a vote! - You should waith for the finall or influence the finall by testing and suggesting this Beta!

do i really really need all these fixes? permanent fixes? temporary fixes? and even optional fixes? why don't you just include them? not everybody uses them and that line about including all known fixes in the first post is so tiny it could easily be missed and there isnt even a link to the thread.

sorry about the complaining but i've been really frustrated about getting this thing to work. and you really need to organize and clarify your installation instruction a bit better (like don't hide them and separate the installation instructions of the transition files from the beta files) and explain the two a bit better.

and btw HOLY SHIT. the starting armies aint no joke no more. I'm about to piss my pants cuz pyrrhos has three elephant units sitting next to pella. also, whats the point in giving me 20k mnai if i'm going to lose all but 2k after the first turn due to some huge army upkeep. i can disband nearly all my troops but garrisons and i probably will still end up in the red and conquered by pyrrhos too. the point is you seem to have increased the population size but the income per city still doesnt seem to be quite enough to match the increased costs of armies. in fact, you've just widened the gap between an affordable garrison and absolute bankruptcy that was present in vanilla eb.

otherwise very elegant and diverse units (haven't played alexander yet) but they fit in nicely.

[Maksimus]

ifaster, acccording to everything i've been hearing

It is, its just that EB is one really advanced game anyway

do i really really need all these fixes? permanent fixes? temporary fixes? and even optional fixes? why don't you just include them?

There is one fix that is not included into the mod - ''pack'' and it is about 50mgb - so If we include it in.. then.. you konw, that is + 50mgb

[QUOTE=Danzifuge]sorry about the complaining but i've been really frustrated about getting this thing to work. and you really need to organize and clarify your installation instruction a bit better (like don't hide them and separate the installation instructions of the transition files from the beta files) and explain the two a bit better.

and btw HOLY SHIT. the starting armies aint no joke no more. I'm about to piss my pants cuz pyrrhos has three elephant units sitting next to pella. also, whats the point in giving me 20k mnai if i'm going to lose all but 2k after the first turn due to some huge army upkeep. i can disband nearly all my troops but garrisons and i probably will still end up in the red and conquered by pyrrhos too. the point is you seem to have increased the population size but the income per city still doesnt seem to be quite enough to match the increased costs of armies. in fact, you've just widened the gap between an affordable garrison and absolute bankruptcy that was present in vanilla eb.

Macedonia is especially hard to play, + after a 2 turns you will lose at least 30% of your army because of Pyrr and Athenai... But overall we will increasse income for the finall

For some factions, you are not in that hard debt as with Makedonia. The point is you now have army that is capable of taking Athens and fight Pyrr.. It is your call if you want to take Greece or not - but you will lose many troops after first couple of turns anyway..

otherwise very elegant and diverse units (haven't played alexander yet) but they fit in nicely.

I should suggest more coz we will take into account that

[Danzifuge]

There is one fix that is not included into the mod - ''pack'' and it is about 50mgb - so If we include it in.. then.. you konw, that is + 50mgb

and which fix is that?

Macedonia is especially hard to play, + after a 2 turns you will lose at least 30% of your army because of Pyrr and Athenai...

I'm going to have to lose more than 30% of my army to get out serious debt.

But overall we will increasse income for the finall

thank you

[Maksimus]

and which fix is that?

# Oppida

* Updated 2007-10-23
* If an Oppidum is present in a settlement with an incompatible culture, such as Arsé, the game will CTD when loading a battle on that tile, or viewing the settlement. Redmeth has fixed this so it will no longer crash. Unfortunately, this is part of a packed file which means the fix is pretty big (file size).
* The fix will overwrite descr_walls.txt and packs/mod_0.pak, you may want to make backups of these first.
* Download this file from Rapidshare.
* Unpack into <RTW directory>/EB/data.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=93820

I'm going to have to lose more than 30% of my army to get out serious debt.

If you are going to get out of serious debt with Macedon or other ''hard'' factions - you will need to fight from the start and fast - like.. put a siege on Athenai right away - or go after Thermon and Sparta or Byzant.. etc..
If you do that, you will certanly lose 30% of your army but you will gain pace for new one.. It is really EB vanilla strategy - it is common so we left it that way.. In my tweaks of vanilla RTW I always left factions set so they gain money from the start - but in EB it is other way around

I say. Even when we add more income pattern for the mod - it will never be enough to feed Macedonian start-army

You need to fight your way

[Danzifuge]

If you are going to get out of serious debt with Macedon or other ''hard'' factions - you will need to fight from the start and fast - like.. put a siege on Athenai right away - or go after Thermon and Sparta or Byzant.. etc..
If you do that, you will certanly lose 30% of your army but you will gain pace for new one.. It is really EB vanilla strategy - it is common so we left it that way.. In my tweaks of vanilla RTW I always left factions set so they gain money from the start - but in EB it is other way around

I say. Even when we add more income pattern for the mod - it will never be enough to feed Macedonian start-army

You need to fight your way

you're entirely right. from what i've seen mod-wise so far, it is the eb way to go bankrupt in the beginning. i'm just not economically inclined enough (that and the fact there is no definitive faq for all eb buildings) to survive as anybody other the carthies, rome, ptolies, or seleucs.

my main issue was this style of play is there is absolutely no room for error in the beginning of the game (in battle or in building) so its not very friendly for the first time eb player (or 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 8th, or 10 time player). i've restarted campaigns so many times, i'd rather just disband everybody and hit end turn for the first 5 years.

but none of this is your problem, really. and i think i'm going to uninstall eb tomorrow. maybe try out rtr.

[Maksimus]

RTR is (well I hope that no RTR fan will see this ) ''the best of the rest''
.. There are just no RTW mod comparations to EB in any way - EB is the least I would ever go after I played RTR

If you decide not to uninstall EB - I suggest the following tweak that is definetly going to help you and your game-style

open

''descr_sm_resources.txt'' in your EB/data folder and just make those values + 10 times or 5 times so that is the way ''general income works''!

You raise those values and you have positive economic stand!

And anyway, EB is not tested or designed for ALX.exe aggresive and advanced AI that plays 5 times smarter than RTW.exe, so huge AI money assistance (for example) is needed for RTW.exe but not for ALX.exe that is using resources and army much better.

That way I think we will have to think over those ''income issues'' very widely for the finall, - let me say.. that even I have more than hard time playing only because of the money - and I win Heroic after Heroic and I still cant get out of minus for decades - that IS GONIG TO be Changed for the Finall release (even If I upload special file-stand only for those that don't like the huge debt as I dont)

[Maksimus]

Can any admin merge this discussion replies with the active thread (coz some issues we need yet to address)

Thank you

[Danzifuge]

''descr_sm_resources.txt'' in your EB/data folder and just make those values + 10 times or 5 times so that is the way ''general income works''!

You raise those values and you have positive economic stand!

once again a complaint...

i know exactly how this will work. i raise those values alone and the next city or two i conquer will give me some huge profits. so by the time i conquer a good bit of territory i will already be a gajillionaire. and thats no fun either.

the key to a fun game is to start off breaking even or just a little profit (with the bigger factions), but still have enough in your treasury to recover if should you take a loss or two. and from there have every conquest of yours incrementally add to your profits while at the same time having to expand your expenditure on military to cover your ass. simply increasing the resource values without adjusting recruitment costs or anything else will make the game dull and especially easy after the first couple conquests facilitate everything you need to conquer the rest of the world.

if people play this game and are able to survive after a few conquests, what do you think simply multiplying the resource values 5 or 10x will do? they'll be rolling in money! this is not the way to do it. if this is to work correctly, upkeep costs need to be leveled with resource costs so that for every city you take the cost of garrisoning it should give you a slight profit but not too much more. i don't know if you've done this already with the higher upkeep cost, because i don't want to start a game where i'm headed for the shitter from turn 1 and have little hope of getting out of it for many many turns. SO LEVEL OUT THE PROFITS goddamit.

[Danzifuge]

i'm an asshole and had too much to drink sorry

[Maksimus]

In any case if your faction wins couple of towns and you are willing to be patient - you will be milioner

In ALXEB Beta 2 resource values are up by +30%, and that is not enough to add to income. Building bonuses are larger and numerous in ALXEB (so are negative effect of some buildings).

The finall should only have +100% tops to resource values. And this is why:

(note: this is my opinion and it is not clearly represented by facts)

I will show the meaning symbolically through index value using EB vanilla with a constant expresed through number = 100

In EB vanilla game on the Start, you have:

Access to elites 100
Bruto Army Deployed 100
Army upkeep expenditure 100
Money income 100
Building Construction cost 100
Building Construction time 100
Unit Construction cost 100
Resource values 100
Trade and Income bonuses 100
General Level of Development 100
Overall Income Pattern 100

In ALXEB (EAEM mod) game on the Start, you have:

Access to elites 300
Bruto Army Deployed 400
Army upkeep expenditure 400
Money income 150
Building Construction cost 150
Building Construction time 150
Unit Construction cost 100
Resource values 130 (will be 200)
Trade and Income bonuses 150
General Level of Development 150
Overall Income Pattern 200

So, after you take couple of teritories, while you will have greater overall income - you will have to gain new teritories by using elites that cost alot! (coz in ALXEByou will just have to use elites if you want to take new lands - at least some elites)

And since you have access to elites from the start - you will spend more money on the Army in general - coz AI will use elites so you will need to use them too if you want to win - that is the point of new balance in ALXEB.

Add that the ''Main buildings'' and ''core buildings'' now cost more and take 50% longer to build - so we deal with the expansion and ''Huge World'' this way and also with negative bonuses on population growth if you have ''military machine'' in one city.

Even when you win a fortune - you will need even bigger one to take control over some teritories by using elites and fighting some nasty foes..

Anyway, I will test it and see it by myself.. I have tested Beta abd Beta 2 - and I had like 10 Heroic and I had very hard time to get out of the minus after destroying Macedonia, KH and Romans with Epeiros.

[Danzifuge]

messing with the resource values i found that slaves, silk, and grain have no value. how come? and why are dogs worth as much as purple dye, incense, and amber? also, i recommend elephants be lowered and iron, olive oil, wine and marble be increased. i'm gonna tweak it to my own preference, but i find approximately multiplying everything by four achieves a good stability, with macedonia breaking even.

another piece of advice. i'd limit the number of animated "trade ships" there are literally probably 50 or more of these guys sailing around the map at once which is probably causing a lot of the lag in game.

[Maksimus]

That is because EB team used different vanilla resource code names for different EB resources - that is, (They did not respond to me about which resource is which) - dogs (the code name) might be gold (in the game), and olive might be silver... etc

For some reason they did it too in the faction scroll - you know,.. like.. Seleucids are Romans and Romans are Seleucids and Pontos is Carthage and Egypt is Carthage (by code names vice versa game ones)

I think this was done due to the hardcode vanilla patterns

So, I guess that (as EB team said) the highest value of resources (even if it says ''pig'') is acctually gold. etc

note: I have doubled resource values (and it seems nice )

[Intranetusa]

Sorry if it's already answered but, do we need to buy Alexander add on? Or can we just download the files and play with Alex.exe without buying anything?

[Fleeb]

Don't know where you'd get the .exe without buying the game

[Intranetusa]

Don't know where you'd get the .exe without buying the game

Didn't someone post it on filefront earlier? (a couple months ago)
It was just the exe file.

[Maksimus]

Sorry if it's already answered but, do we need to buy Alexander add on? Or can we just download the files and play with Alex.exe without buying anything?

Yes, you can use only ALX.exe

[Maksimus]

Don't know where you'd get the .exe without buying the game

And if you install the game you can delete alexander files and just leave the ALX.exe

[Danzifuge]

i guess i'll have to undo my tweaks to the resources then, as they are not what they represent. another thing i've noticed is that you increased the charge bonus of units such as numidian cavalry to 63. this is equal to the charge of elephants and makes them obsolete in the game. why pay 23,000 and 5750 upkeep for 24 armoured indian elephants when you can get the same charge with numidian cavalry which only cost 2468 and 617 upkeep with 100 horses? the defensive values for numidian cavalry is noticeably less but if you have several of them they more than make up for the survival rate of elephants and no chance of going amok. i always thought the cost and upkeep for elephants should be lessened but their unique charge stats still made them useful for the rich. now they are just pointless.

[Maksimus]

i guess i'll have to undo my tweaks to the resources then, as they are not what they represent. another thing i've noticed is that you increased the charge bonus of units such as numidian cavalry to 63. this is equal to the charge of elephants and makes them obsolete in the game. why pay 23,000 and 5750 upkeep for 24 armoured indian elephants when you can get the same charge with numidian cavalry which only cost 2468 and 617 upkeep with 100 horses? the defensive values for numidian cavalry is noticeably less but if you have several of them they more than make up for the survival rate of elephants and no chance of going amok. i always thought the cost and upkeep for elephants should be lessened but their unique charge stats still made them useful for the rich. now they are just pointless.

There are just numerous of issues that influence the strenght of ''mount units'' - for example .. do Charge bonus is great, the horse is light - which brings less damage than medium or heavy horse or chariot or elephant ... also there are other twekas that influence much more than any caharge bonus like lethality one ... lethality bonus is overall = 1, but for cavarly it was much lower.. like 0.3 or 0.8 ..etc. We have tweaked cavalry according to our cavalry expert MrMerisi that was a cavalry man in Rhodesia.

There was open discussion on the ''EB cavalry balance'' issue on TWC, and we decided to listen to the cavalry man rather than some unclear sources

Here is detail EDU guide ... also descr_mount.txt , bu that is another story

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

; RTW Unit Details spreadsheet-generated unit descriptions
;

;Data entries are as follows
; Type The internal name of the unit. Note this not necessarily the same as the on screen name
; dictionary The tag used to look up the on screen name
;
;Category and class define the rough type of the unit. They're used for setting some
;default attributes and for determining where units go in formation amongst other things
; category infantry, cavalry, siege, handler, ship or non_combatant
; class light, heavy, missile or spearmen
;
; voice_type Used to determine the type of voice used by the unit
;
; soldier Name of the soldier model to use (from descr_models_battle.txt)
; followed by the number of ordinary soldiers in the unit
; followed by the number of extras (pigs dogs, elephants, chariots artillery pieces etc attached to the unit)
; followed by the collision mass of the men. 1.0 is normal. Only applies to infantry
; officer Name of officer model. There may be up to 0-3 officer lines per unit
; ship Type of ship used if applicable
; engine Type of siege engine used by unit
; animal The type of non ridden on animals used by the unit
; mount Type of animal or vehicle ridden on
;
; mount_effect Factors to add when in combat against enemy units that have the specified mounts
; Up to three factors may be specified, which may be classes of mount, or specific types
;
; attributes A miscellanious list of attributes and abilities the unit may have. Including
; sea_faring = can board ships
; hide_forest, hide_improved_forest, hide_long_grass, hide_anywhere = defines where the unit can hide
; can_sap = Can dig tunnels under walls
; frighten_foot, frighten_mounted = Cause fear to certain nearby unit types
; can_run_amok = Unit may go out of control when riders lose control of animals
; general_unit = The unit can be used for a named character's bodyguard
; cantabrian_circle = The unit has this special ability
; no_custom = The unit may not be selected in custom battles
; command = The unit carries a legionary eagle, and gives bonuses to nearby units
; mercenary_unit = The unit is s mercenary unit available to all factions
;
; formation soldier spacing (in metres) side to side, then front to back for close formation
; followed by the same measurements in loose formation.
; followed by the default number of ranks for the unit
; followed by the formations possible for the unit. One or two of
; square, horde, phalanx, testudo, or wedge
;
; stat_health Hit points of man, followed by hit points of mount or attached animal (if applicable)
; Ridden horses and camels do not have separate hit points
;
;Details of unit's primary weapon. If the unit has a missile weapon it must be the primary
; stat_pri From left to right
; attack factorf
; attack bonus factor if charging
; missile type fired (no if not a missile weapon type)
; range of missile
; amount of missile ammunition per man
; Weapon type = melee, thrown, missile, or siege_missile
; Tech type = simple, other, blade, archery or siege
; Damage type = piercing, blunt, slashing or fire. (I don't think this is used anymore)
; Sound type when weapon hits = none, knife, mace, axe, sword, or spear
; Min delay between attacks (in 1/10th of a second)
; stat_pri_attr
; primary weapon attributes any or all of
; ap = armour piercing. Only counts half of target's armour
; bp = body piercing. Missile can pass through men and hit those behind
; spear = Used for long spears. Gives bonuses fighting cavalry, and penalties against infantry
; long_pike = Use very long pikes. Phalanx capable units only
; short_pike = Use shorter than normal spears. Phalanx capable units only
; prec = Missile weapon is only thrown just before charging into combat
; thrown = The missile type if thrown rather than fired
; launching = attack may throw target men into the air
; area = attack affects an area, not just one man
;
;Details of secondary weapons. If the unit rides on, or has attached animals or vehicles
;then the secondary weapon details refer to their attacks. If the unit has missile weapons
;the secondary weapon will be the one used for melee
;If the unit has a primary melee weapon, it may have a secondary side arm
; stat_sec As per stat_pri (a value of no means no secondary weapon)
; stat_sec_attr As per stat_pri_attr
;
; stat_pri_armour Details of the man's defences
; armour factor
; defensive skill factor (not used when shot at)
; shield factor (only used for attacks from the front of left)
; sound type when hit = flesh, leather, or metal
;
; stat_sec_armour Details of animal's or vehicle's defenses (note riden horses do not have a separate defence)
; As per stat_pri_armour, except that the shield entry is ommited
;
; stat_heat Extra fatigue suffered by the unit in hot climates
;
; stat_ground Combat modifiers on different ground types. From left to right
; scrub, sand, forest, snow
; stat_mental The base morale level, followed by discipline and training
; discipline may be normal, low, disciplined or imperuous. Impetuous units may charge without orders
; training determines how tidy the unit's formation is
;
; stat_charge_distance Distance from the enemy that the unit will begin charging
; stat_fire_delay Ectra delay over that imposed by animation, hetween volleys
;
; stat_food No longer used
; stat_cost Number of turns to build,
; Cost of unit to construct
; Cost of upkeep
; Cost of upgrading weapons
; Cost of upgrading armour
; Cost for custom battles
; stat_ownership List of factions and cultures that may have this unit

[Danzifuge]

There are just numerous of issues that influence the strenght of ''mount units'' - for example .. do Charge bonus is great, the horse is light - which brings less damage than medium or heavy horse or chariot or elephant ... also there are other twekas that influence much more than any caharge bonus like lethality one ... lethality bonus is overall = 1, but for cavarly it was much lower.. like 0.3 or 0.8 ..etc. We have tweaked cavalry according to our cavalry expert MrMerisi that was a cavalry man in Rhodesia.

There was open discussion on the ''EB cavalry balance'' issue on TWC, and we decided to listen to the cavalry man rather than some unclear sources

Here is detail EDU guide ... also descr_mount.txt , bu that is another story

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

; RTW Unit Details spreadsheet-generated unit descriptions
;

;Data entries are as follows
; Type The internal name of the unit. Note this not necessarily the same as the on screen name
; dictionary The tag used to look up the on screen name
;
;Category and class define the rough type of the unit. They're used for setting some
;default attributes and for determining where units go in formation amongst other things
; category infantry, cavalry, siege, handler, ship or non_combatant
; class light, heavy, missile or spearmen
;
; voice_type Used to determine the type of voice used by the unit
;
; soldier Name of the soldier model to use (from descr_models_battle.txt)
; followed by the number of ordinary soldiers in the unit
; followed by the number of extras (pigs dogs, elephants, chariots artillery pieces etc attached to the unit)
; followed by the collision mass of the men. 1.0 is normal. Only applies to infantry
; officer Name of officer model. There may be up to 0-3 officer lines per unit
; ship Type of ship used if applicable
; engine Type of siege engine used by unit
; animal The type of non ridden on animals used by the unit
; mount Type of animal or vehicle ridden on
;
; mount_effect Factors to add when in combat against enemy units that have the specified mounts
; Up to three factors may be specified, which may be classes of mount, or specific types
;
; attributes A miscellanious list of attributes and abilities the unit may have. Including
; sea_faring = can board ships
; hide_forest, hide_improved_forest, hide_long_grass, hide_anywhere = defines where the unit can hide
; can_sap = Can dig tunnels under walls
; frighten_foot, frighten_mounted = Cause fear to certain nearby unit types
; can_run_amok = Unit may go out of control when riders lose control of animals
; general_unit = The unit can be used for a named character's bodyguard
; cantabrian_circle = The unit has this special ability
; no_custom = The unit may not be selected in custom battles
; command = The unit carries a legionary eagle, and gives bonuses to nearby units
; mercenary_unit = The unit is s mercenary unit available to all factions
;
; formation soldier spacing (in metres) side to side, then front to back for close formation
; followed by the same measurements in loose formation.
; followed by the default number of ranks for the unit
; followed by the formations possible for the unit. One or two of
; square, horde, phalanx, testudo, or wedge
;
; stat_health Hit points of man, followed by hit points of mount or attached animal (if applicable)
; Ridden horses and camels do not have separate hit points
;
;Details of unit's primary weapon. If the unit has a missile weapon it must be the primary
; stat_pri From left to right
; attack factorf
; attack bonus factor if charging
; missile type fired (no if not a missile weapon type)
; range of missile
; amount of missile ammunition per man
; Weapon type = melee, thrown, missile, or siege_missile
; Tech type = simple, other, blade, archery or siege
; Damage type = piercing, blunt, slashing or fire. (I don't think this is used anymore)
; Sound type when weapon hits = none, knife, mace, axe, sword, or spear
; Min delay between attacks (in 1/10th of a second)
; stat_pri_attr
; primary weapon attributes any or all of
; ap = armour piercing. Only counts half of target's armour
; bp = body piercing. Missile can pass through men and hit those behind
; spear = Used for long spears. Gives bonuses fighting cavalry, and penalties against infantry
; long_pike = Use very long pikes. Phalanx capable units only
; short_pike = Use shorter than normal spears. Phalanx capable units only
; prec = Missile weapon is only thrown just before charging into combat
; thrown = The missile type if thrown rather than fired
; launching = attack may throw target men into the air
; area = attack affects an area, not just one man
;
;Details of secondary weapons. If the unit rides on, or has attached animals or vehicles
;then the secondary weapon details refer to their attacks. If the unit has missile weapons
;the secondary weapon will be the one used for melee
;If the unit has a primary melee weapon, it may have a secondary side arm
; stat_sec As per stat_pri (a value of no means no secondary weapon)
; stat_sec_attr As per stat_pri_attr
;
; stat_pri_armour Details of the man's defences
; armour factor
; defensive skill factor (not used when shot at)
; shield factor (only used for attacks from the front of left)
; sound type when hit = flesh, leather, or metal
;
; stat_sec_armour Details of animal's or vehicle's defenses (note riden horses do not have a separate defence)
; As per stat_pri_armour, except that the shield entry is ommited
;
; stat_heat Extra fatigue suffered by the unit in hot climates
;
; stat_ground Combat modifiers on different ground types. From left to right
; scrub, sand, forest, snow
; stat_mental The base morale level, followed by discipline and training
; discipline may be normal, low, disciplined or imperuous. Impetuous units may charge without orders
; training determines how tidy the unit's formation is
;
; stat_charge_distance Distance from the enemy that the unit will begin charging
; stat_fire_delay Ectra delay over that imposed by animation, hetween volleys
;
; stat_food No longer used
; stat_cost Number of turns to build,
; Cost of unit to construct
; Cost of upkeep
; Cost of upgrading weapons
; Cost of upgrading armour
; Cost for custom battles
; stat_ownership List of factions and cultures that may have this unit

thank you for clarifying this. i will revert it back to the cavalry man's choice settings as he probably knows what he's doing.

also, just to let you know. strat.txt in EB\Data\text folder clarifies what resources are which.

{SMT_RESOURCE_GOLD} Large Vein Precious Metals
{SMT_RESOURCE_SILVER} Small Vein Precious Metals
{SMT_RESOURCE_IRON} Iron
{SMT_RESOURCE_POTTERY} Specialized Crafts
{SMT_RESOURCE_FURS} Slaves
{SMT_RESOURCE_GRAIN} Bugged Grain
{SMT_RESOURCE_TIMBER} Timber
{SMT_RESOURCE_ELEPHANT} Elephants
{SMT_RESOURCE_CAMEL} Mounts
{SMT_RESOURCE_DOG} Salt
{SMT_RESOURCE_PIG} Fish
{SMT_RESOURCE_OLIVE_OIL} Olive Oil
{SMT_RESOURCE_WINE} Wine
{SMT_RESOURCE_SLAVES} Refugees
{SMT_RESOURCE_GLASS} Grain
{SMT_RESOURCE_MARBLE} Marble
{SMT_RESOURCE_TEXTILES} Textiles
{SMT_RESOURCE_PURPLE_DYE} Dyes
{SMT_RESOURCE_INCENSE} Luxury Goods
{SMT_RESOURCE_SILK} Honey
{SMT_RESOURCE_WILD_ANIMALS} Wild Animals
{SMT_RESOURCE_HIDES} Livestock
{SMT_RESOURCE_TIN} Tin
{SMT_RESOURCE_COPPER} Copper
{SMT_RESOURCE_LEAD} Lead
{SMT_RESOURCE_AMBER} Precious Stones

i understand the bugged grain and refugees having no value, but honey?

[Maksimus]

Oh, yes, yes that is great .. well, either way if there is a strict and precise pattern of resource values tweaks, than the simple % addition to the existing ones is ok as a rule

The EB way

I will see some tweaks.. maybe there should be a bit larger disproportion betwean some resources like silk and gold verses others (but by a small % manly)

And about cavalry tweaks, .. for EB 11 (after it is out) we will surely not mess with the charge bonus but the lethality and mount mass ... etc .. MrMerisi will be mostly in charge for that after EB 11 comes out.