Opinions on the SNP

[Rhyfelwyr]

The Scottish National Party have finally gained power, albeit limited power, in Scotland. A lot of people I speak to think the whole idea of independance is laughable, and that Scotland would become the poverty capital of Europe (although it probably is already, at least for the western part).

While I don't think independence would be a total disaster, I'm not too sure about Alex Salmond and co. While the cabinet appears to have many very capable ministers, I can't help but be slightly concerned when Mr. Salmond spends time sitting amongst primary school children singing 'Scotland the Brave'. If anything the SNP are gaining influnce because they are the most left-wing party available to Scots nowadays (thanks to 'New Labour' aka 'New Conservatives', just because you call yourselves 'Scottish Labour' up here doesn't hide the truth!), except of course the SSP or Solidarity.

Indeed, the SNP have to an extent become the working-class party of Scotland, making Labour their middle-class rivals. No point mentioning the Conservatives in Scotland, and that's the way it should be!

Anyway, I was wondering what views people had on the SNP here at the Guild. Right now I'm not sure what to do if there's ever a referendum, it there is one it would probably be the first time I get to vote.

[JR-]

I think they are dangerous with their careless political point scoring with westminster.

But at the end of the day if the Scottish people prove dumb enough to accept as truth the silly controversies conjured by the SNP, then they deserve independence for all its perceived worth.

I believe in the Union, but i don't want a Scotland that votes in idiots like the SNP for a second time.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I wouldn't call the Scottish people idiots for voting in the SNP. To be fair, whats the alternative? A Labour Party that steals its policies from the Conservatives?

I myself am still tipped towards the union, but Labour brought this on themselves. If they want Conservative policies they can give up on Scotland, and Wales for that matter, right now. Their scare-mongering towards the SNP cost them at the last election, they didn't actually appear to offer anything themselves.

And talking about controversies within party policy, what is more contradictive than a New Labour politician vigorously preaching that he is dedicated to socialism? It seems New Labour were trying to trick the Scottish people into believing they are still a socialist party.

I think in many ways the latest election results in Scotland were the result of a protest vote against an increasingly right-wing Labour Party.

[JR-]

if scotland is really that left wing then maybe it is best to end the union, because the majority of england is certainly conservative.

[scotchedpommes]

Scotland is significantly 'left-leaning', to the despair of the dregs of the
conservative movements in the country. Out of curiosity though, Rhyfelwyr,
where are these people you speak to? Govan? Ibrox?

Wouldn't expect much scope for variation around there.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Out of curiosity though, Rhyfelwyr,
where are these people you speak to? Govan? Ibrox?

I do not talk to people in Govan much, though as RFC fans we're all there at heart really. I still live in the Red Clydeside area though. You'd have to go back a couple of generations to find any Govan blood in me, and my Govan granparents actually moved to Ulster anyway.

Personally I am slightly 'left-leaning', I'm no Marxist though. And I don't really know what to think about independance. I'm tipped towards the Union right now, maybe thats the Ulster influence, both my parents are SNP anyway. And please don't think I'm a complete idiot because of it, I'm sick of getting grief off of wealthy Conservative/BNP (though they won't admit it) snobby ***** just because I do not back 100% the union and completely dismiss the idea of independance.

Remember, the point in this thread is not for me to praise or flame the SNP, I just wondered what other peoples opinions were, thought I would get more of an international view here.

[scotchedpommes]

There have been a [large] number of topics on this and related issues
in the not too distant past. International [especially neighbourly] opinion
here is overwhelmingly negative.

[Marshal Murat]

I don't know much about the SNP.
While I think Scotland should be independent, it's not feasible or practical.

I hope they just don't turn into an 'Afrikaan' group, where there are 'Pure' Scotsmen then 'Others'.
It could be worse.

[CrossLOPER]

If Scotland becomes a preindustrial style backwater, I'll strongly consider moving there.

[Marshal Murat]

I don't know. If they were, then I could grow woad and raid my neighbor for cattle.

But there is Mad Cows Disease

Then again I can shoot a bow-and-arrow

But I can't go to York or I can be killed. Legally.

[Justiciar]

because the majority of england is certainly conservative.

One begs to differ.

Personally I think the SNP could be doing a significantly worse job, and I do feel that a referendum is in order. I say this as an ardent supporter of the Union. That said, I cannot abide Salmond. Man's an arse.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I hope they just don't turn into an 'Afrikaan' group, where there are 'Pure' Scotsmen then 'Others'.
It could be worse.

I can assure you there is absolutedly no racism at all associated with the SNP. The vast majority of people that support the SNP are level-headed and do not support them because "William Wallace killed 500 English at Bannockburn ZOMG ROFL N00B PwNED!!1!1!", but because they are fed up with Labour closing hospitals, privatizing everything, and going to war in Iraq. The SNP are a very liberal party, and are pro-immigration, pro-Europe, and do not as one German I spoke to mistake them for the Scottish version of the BNP!

EDIT: Also, I know Wallace was not at Bannockburn BTW...

[JR-]

I do not talk to people in Govan much, though as RFC fans we're all there at heart really. I still live in the Red Clydeside area though. You'd have to go back a couple of generations to find any Govan blood in me, and my Govan granparents actually moved to Ulster anyway.

Personally I am slightly 'left-leaning', I'm no Marxist though. And I don't really know what to think about independance. I'm tipped towards the Union right now, maybe thats the Ulster influence, both my parents are SNP anyway. And please don't think I'm a complete idiot because of it, I'm sick of getting grief off of wealthy Conservative/BNP (though they won't admit it) snobby ***** just because I do not back 100% the union and completely dismiss the idea of independance.

are you implying that BNP support relies on disgruntled Conservatives, due to the rather tenuous link between right-leaning Cons and fascist BNP thugs?

I can assure you the majority of BNP supporters are poorer working-class ex-Labour people.

[JR-]

One begs to differ.

Personally I think the SNP could be doing a significantly worse job, and I do feel that a referendum is in order. I say this as an ardent supporter of the Union. That said, I cannot abide Salmond. Man's an arse.

it is a simple fact.

if the general election of two (?) years ago had only included england we would have had a Conservative Gov't right now.

[CBR]

if the general election of two (?) years ago had only included england we would have had a Conservative Gov't right now.

If UK had proportional representation there wouldnt be elections where 35% of the votes means winning 55% of the seats. But breaking up the Union might be easier than electoral reform...


CBR

[JR-]

I am all for first past the post, i don't like coalition politics.

give one party a chance to come up with new ideas, and screw up or succeed, situation to be reviewed at the next election.

but doesn't change a Conservative england.\

[English assassin]

I can assure you there is absolutedly no racism at all associated with the SNP.

No, of course not. They just think Scottish = best. No racism implicit in that at all.

Here's a qu: who will the SNP blame for Scotland's woes if they get independence and can't blame the English any more?

[CrossLOPER]

No, of course not. They just think Scottish = best. No racism implicit in that at all.

Here's a qu: who will the SNP blame for Scotland's woes if they get independence and can't blame the English any more?

OMG THEY DON'T RECOGNIZE OUR AWESOMENESS AND THEY DON'T SUPPORT OUR SPORTS TEAMS!!!!!

[Rhyfelwyr]

are you implying that BNP support relies on disgruntled Conservatives, due to the rather tenuous link between right-leaning Cons and fascist BNP thugs?

I can assure you the majority of BNP supporters are poorer working-class ex-Labour people.

What I meant was that they are completely opposed to immigration, and take a stance somewhere between that of the Conservatives and the BNP towards it. I would not call them fascits anyway, just right-wing, it fair enough if its their opinion on immigration as an part of an economic policy. In that sense they are in line with the Conservatives/BNP, I am not accusing them of believing the fascist and racist *** spewed by the BNP to poorer communities. Scotland how ever quite blatantly needs a welcoming immigration policy right now.

I am all for first past the post, i don't like coalition politics.

give one party a chance to come up with new ideas, and screw up or succeed, situation to be reviewed at the next election.

but doesn't change a Conservative england.\

I think Belgium is an example of why PR is not as effective as FPTP. However, I wouldn't call England a conservative country, the south perhaps.

No, of course not. They just think Scottish = best. No racism implicit in that at all.

For about 99% of SNP supporters this is not true at all. People that do hold beliefs like that have fell out with the SNP in the past and formed their own splinter groups. I think people need to understand that the latest elections outcome was the result of protest voting - what did the other parties have to offer? The SNP are one of the most liberal parties available to Scottish people right now, with a slight left-wing bias. They offer an alternative to the pro-war/nuclear/right-wing policies of the other major parties. For most people nationalism is barely invovled, that is why the SNP are becoming the working-class party, not just a party for the patriots.

Like I said I'm still pro-union myself, but some of the accusations made against the SNP and the people who support them are ridiculous. I suppose this is largely the result of a Labour campaign based on a completely offensive basis against its enemies, and which said little about its own parties merits.

[Papewaio]

Here's a qu: who will the SNP blame for Scotland's woes if they get independence and can't blame the English any more?

Like every colony they can still blame the prior masters for leaving them in such poor shape. You know like leaving them the developed North Sea oil fields for instance is such an economic disadvantage. Or for not speeding up global warming making the place so cold.

[LittleGrizzly]

Im naturally at odds with the SNP from the start as someone who wants the UK to stay whole, but other than that most of what i hear of the snp is good, they seem to be a left leaning party with good policies, and with the conservatives and labour stealing each others identitys i can understand why they're so popular

Ill trade you for plaid cymru anyday, useless interferring and lots of other nasty things (no i dont have evidence to back this up, tis a rant!)