Hence, why dost thou love this so?

[PershsNhpios]

I am a grand supporter of Rome: Total War - Europa Barbarorum.
While I feel bitter, suppressed resentment for Rome: Total War itself, the mod makes it brilliantly enjoyable.

Now I have wanted a Medieval version of such joy for some times, yet I cannot play Medieval II: Total War.

I would like to explore and find opportunities and reasons to play both Shogun: Total War and Medieval: Total War.
The pretexts of why I am posting here about the latter, are because I have heard of the, "XL", mod that allows for over 30 factions to be played.
This is marvellous, and alomst enough to convince me at once, in addition that I have heard the AI is more diplomatic and personified in this game than it's successor.

Now that I see Rome: Total War and it's generation are not the only with a fine presentation of the campaign map, and both Shogun and Medieval have what seems to be reasonable representations on the battlefield, (From screenshots), I thought best to ask the players themselves.

What makes this more attractive than Rome: Total War?

Is Shogun: Total War to be recommended by you also, and for what reasons?

[caravel]

Two threads I found on this, have a read:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=77223
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=82861

[Tamur]

There are at least those threads, and definitely others in the STW forum on reasons to experience STW and MTW. Read them at your own risk -- you'll be salivating for both games at the end.

[macsen rufus]

Y're not from round these parts, are ya?

Seriously, welcome to MTW-land

Where to begin, though? Maybe at the bottom is best, and get the pitfalls out of the way first, which is to say that the graphics are far less sumptuous than you'll be used to with RTW. You may also find it unusual going back to the "Risk" style map, where you simply move armies from province to province rather than the "free-form" movement in RTW. This applies to STW as well.

BUT on the plus side, battles are more tactically diverse and depend more on "real" tactics, morale, fatigue, use of terrain etc, the immersive element is probably deeper - especially STW which is very atmospheric (you'll just love the first battle where you fight in the fog ) Of course there's the usual interplay of economic and military matters, diplomacy (a bit cruder than RTW maybe, but fewer absurdities too), subterfuge, conquest or "Glorious Achievement" mode, a thriving MP community, custom battles etc etc etc.

And there is a wide range of mods *cough * which will let you expand to just about any time frame from 2000BC through to the Napoleonic era, with quite a variety of strictly Mediaeval variations, too. I personally like the XL mod for this time frame, and have just loaded up BKB Supermod, too, which is also very good.

I tried RTW for a few months, but it soon got very boring as it lacked the tactical depth of MTW - battles tend to be over too quickly etc, but I'm sure you know all those bits about it. I'm looking forward to trying EB, though - maybe over Christmas I'll swap my video drivers (I can't run MTW and RTW on the same drivers so I went back to my MTW set-up...), get in a couple crates of beer and put in a repeat order at the local pizza joint, and have a mad few days non-stop EB

[PershsNhpios]

Thank you very much Rufus, this is exactly what I required.

The pitfalls you have mentioned are easily avoided, and do not intimidate me at all.
The greater tactical ability in this game I can't understand - why would they have neglected this in a sequel?
But I shall find this game nonetheless, and I will read those threads mentioned immediately!

But it was the XL mod that attracted me most, for the idea of so many factions all attempting to create an empire seems like an anarchy well worth participating in!

I will report back here later perhaps, with my final decision.

Meanwhile, this thread is open to those who wish to post what is most enjoyable about Medieval: Total War that cannot be found in the streets and stadiums of Rome.

[macsen rufus]

why would they have neglected this in a sequel?

I think it's to do with mass markets, lowest common denominator, attracting more 10-year olds etc etc

In MTW battles, swapping the position of a couple of units in your line can make the difference between winning or losing due to the interplay of morale, terrain etc etc. Anyway, you'll find all that out yourself

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
The immersion value of MTW is much higher than the sequel (RTW, that is, I don't regard M2 as a sequel to it ).
.

[Dodge_272]

Probably the most atmospheric game I've ever played. Something which was sadly lost with the 3D campaign map, IMO.

[Prussian1]

I remember playing S:TW and thinking to myself "this is a cool concept. I'd love to see it set in the European Middle Ages."

Lo and behold - my plea was answered. I went out and brought a brand new desktop just to run it and was not disappointed.

I find the tactical immersion and flexibility facinating. I have replayed battles in which my butt was handed to me and, by making very minor modifications to formation or use of terrain, was able to carry the day.

From the Grand Strategic Perspective, the replayability is tremendous.

I will admit that no simulation is perfect and sacrifices have to be made to playability, but M:TW has always had a place of honour on my hard drive.

[gregori99]

I find the tactical immersion and flexibility facinating. I have replayed battles in which my butt was handed to me and, by making very minor modifications to formation or use of terrain, was able to carry the day.

I think this is it in a nutshell. All the other points are valid and I agree with them, but there's just nothing to compare with fighting a huge battle against the odds where sheer guts or a brave charge by exhausted troops or a clever tactical manoeuvre at a precise moment can turn defeat into victory. The battle system in Rome just doesn't compare.

[PershsNhpios]

Quiet in the hall, that you may hear my verdict!

The curious, and fine inquisitor Glenn has - in his globally exalted and accepted opinion - found Medieval: Total War to be far holier and closer to the pleasures of heaven than any of it's successors.

And in this decision does he order it known, that he praises and encompasses the cult of M.T.W. as his own.

-------------------------------------------------------

So I will obtain it immediately!
Along with it's beloved, 'Viking Invasion', so that I may play the XL mod.
I have read near to the entire Empirical stories thread, and I must boast how I love the tabletop map campaign, with armies and ships displayed like chess pieces.
Brilliant! If only Rome had been displayed with Legionary Centurions stationed upon finely crafted bases, it would of looked like a surreal strategy board - with over twenty invisible players entertaining the human.

At first also, it seems there is little stereotyping of the factions.
The reason why I held the original Rome: Total War in such dark contempt was for the fact that research outside of the Italian leg was near extinct!
There was a faction called, 'Spain', and another, 'Thrace', as though they actually existed like countries.
Europa Barbarorum did well to counter-act this, however they made the game near unplayable due to terrible loading times and, 'lag'.

And I shall say nothing on those damned barbaric voice-overs.
"Yaaargh, we shall destroy!".

Told from a truly Roman perspective, I suppose my opponent could say.

No matter, now that I have seen your deity here in this echo of the great, unfathomable forum - I believe the entire series should be made to look like a hugely sculpted tabletop.
Let the battles be as fancy as necessary, but it is this feel that becomes more immersive than giant triremes scooting around at the speed of light, bickering, 'Aye aye, cap'n!'.

And, if it costs me my head, I shall travel back to the homelands of Europa Barbarorum and attempt to create a coup in the midst of that damned heretic - Rome: Total War!

------------------------------------------------------

One of the things that attracts me most is that it seems, due to the strict routes and movement between provinces, that allies get far more involved in fights.
Within R.T.W. you would be overjoyed if there appeared more than two factions in a fight, or even large reinforcements!

Also - naval battles, superiority and assaults seem to be constant enough to threaten every seaside province.
I heard somewhere that if you attacked England, as Scotland, and they had all their forces fighting in Britanny, you could still expect them to attack heavily by sea within the next turn.
Or that you could, if naval power was great enough, expect a Byzantine fleet to land a force on Ireland!

Amazing!
Religion seems greatly enjoyable also - it disappointed me in, 'Barbarian Invasion', due to it's complete unimportance.
But now I feel quite interested in creating a conspiracy against the pope.

Are the any more suggested places where I can read more about the greater parts of the game, whilst I wait for it's arrival?
Or even here, may people tell me of some things I would find amusing, that I would never hear of in the hinterlands of Roma.
It may come as a surprise, but I was made greatly interested and converted moreso, simply by the amount of testimonials here that allied kingdoms had not only participated in war, but formed great friendships and saved many people from destruction.

I will be using the XL mod, for certainty, however I cannot find an official site for this, and the only place where it is discussed here on these forums is within the official download thread - it is not even a hosted modification!

"Ingratitude, stronger than traitors arms! ....."

[macsen rufus]

XL has its own thread in the Engineer's Guild: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=31201 in case you haven't found it yet.

It is reassuring that you have come to such a wise verdict. Ave!

[ULC]

If you like, check out the pics and history thread stickied at the top. If you EVER need a reason or inspiration to play MTW, read one of Bregils or Bamff's posts. By the way, for those interested, I have recovered my Lithuanian campaign, yay!

EDIT: Guess not! Seems it was corrupted. Sorry For getting anyones hopes up. I will be starting a Bohemian Campaign (tried once, and this time I will finish, because I'm keeping multiple copies this time!)

[Martok]

Glad you're picking up the game, Glenn. You're in for a real treat.