The Warhammer Campaign

[Bwian]

Right now, until the Modding Pixies crack properly the settlement formats, we are stuck with the stock M2TW buildings for battlemap towns and cities.

If we have to have it this way, then we have to have it this way. If not...then we will have the option of changing the sets for each of the main cultures. These will be applied across the races in a 'best fit' approach. Not ideal...but we will have to work with what we can change.

Map wise, we have a map already part done. The provinces are roughly as follows:



The only thing we were thinking of changing was to add a land bridge at the top right corner, so Chaos lands had a natural route south into the Empire lands without relying on the AI to figure out it needed a boat to do it with!

[Revan-Shan]

Important char of the Dark Elves:

{Malus_Darkblade}Malus Darkblade Noble of Hag Graef
{Morathi}Morathi female! Greatest Dark Elven Witch Ever
{Malekith}Malekith faction leader Witch King of Naggaroth, Morathi's son
{Rakarth}Rakarth Lord of the beasts of Karond Kar
{Kouran}Kouran Captain of the Black Guard
{Tullaris_of_Har_Ganeth}Tullaris of Har Ganeth lord of the executioners
{Shadowblade}Shadowblade master assasin

Names with surnames:
Morathi-> {Morathi_of_Naggaroth}Morathi of Naggaroth
Malekith-> {Malekith_of_Naggaroth}Malekith of Naggaroth
Rakarth-> {Rakarth_of_Karond_Kar}Rakarth of Karond Kar
Kouran-> {Kouran_of_the_Black_Guard}Kouran of the Black Guard
Shadowblade as noble-> {Shadowblade_of_the_Temple_of_Khaine}{Shadowblade of the Temple of Khaine}


If I'm not mistaken elves are inmortal so this char shouldn't die because of age.

[A Norseman]

Poor dark elfs.. wedged between the horrible Chaos and the horrible Lizardmen.. Happy High Elfs, Got their own island, AI never were good with boats.

Culd you correct my description of races?
High Elfs: White.
Lizardmen: Light Green
Dark Elfs: Deep Purple
Orcs: Dark Green.
Tomb Kings: Light Blue
Chaos: Black
Dwarfs: Blue
Woodelfs: Red
Brettonia: Black/yellow
Empire: Blue/red
Vampire Count: Green

I feel that Most of the coulors are innapropriate and too similar to eachother.

[Krazysigmarite]

The colours are placeholders - they WILL be changed.


High Elfs: White
Lizardmen: Light Green
Dark Elfs: Deep Purple
Orcs: Dark Green
Tomb Kings: Light Blue/yellow
Chaos: Black
Dwarfs: Blue
Vampire Counts: Red
Bretonnia: Blue/Red
Empire: Black/Yellow
Skaven: Green/Brown

[Decker]

I got a realllly cool name! Decker the Diabolical
wut you guys think?

[tito]

did we put arabian estalia , tilea , albion,beastmen,woodelfs ,northman and kislev as a faction or just like rebels

[Myrddraal]

Tito, to make a mod is a lot of work. You can't expect minor factions to be in the game in any respect (unless you want to make them )

I'm not representing Bwain or his team, but I wouldn't think they'll be worrying about factions like tilea or estalia...

[thrashing mad]

The colours are placeholders - they WILL be changed.


High Elfs: White
Lizardmen: Light Green
Dark Elfs: Deep Purple
Orcs: Dark Green
Tomb Kings: Light Blue/yellow
Chaos: Black
Dwarfs: Blue
Vampire Counts: Red
Bretonnia: Blue/Red
Empire: Black/Yellow
Skaven: Green/Brown

Good map, but:

- too many provinces in Norska is making region too important, fighting for it prolonged, and gives too much of economic benefits (more provs than in Bretonia?) My suggestion is to cut Norska to 3-4 provinces, unless you plan to add Norse faction in the future.

- same goes to chaos wastes - well, so many settlements in desolate tundra is strange for me, I would suggest to make only 4-5 settlements on southern part of the wastes as centres of regional tribal groups. I would also suggest to add four powerful/developed cities at the north/centre of the map, representing Eye of the Chaos, and maybe four cities dedicated to each chaos gods(rebelled at start?).

[tito]

i would like just to know if it will be rebels as faction.A guy said that he makes it so...

[Spankfurt]

I think you could get away with some laziness by adding Araby as a faction, and just using medieval 2 units. All you would have to do is re-name them, edit some stats, or some other minor changes. You could also get away with using the exact same cities. Hurray for slacking off!

[Enthes]

i think you need to make norsca connect to the chaos wastes as if you dont the poor dark elves will be crushed

also some of norsca should be under the control of chaos to prevent the empire and other factions spreading north to far with ease.

[Gnashfang]

XD Whenever I look at a Warhammer map I laugh... I swear, Dark Elves living in Canada, who would've thought it? "The cold wastes of Naggaroth." Phew... Good thing I'm originally from Albion

[Gorthuar]

The colours are placeholders - they WILL be changed.


High Elfs: White
Lizardmen: Light Green
Dark Elfs: Deep Purple
Orcs: Dark Green
Tomb Kings: Light Blue/yellow
Chaos: Black
Dwarfs: Blue
Vampire Counts: Red
Bretonnia: Blue/Red
Empire: Black/Yellow
Skaven: Green/Brown

Do I see a Skaven territory all over the northern shores of the Sour Sea? Blasphemy! Tis' the land firmly grasped by the Iron Hand of the Great Necromancer, ever since He recaptured it from the Skaven over 2,500 years before the current Warhammer time. *Very* powerful Tomb King rebels should be occupying it, or it should belong to the Vampire Counts, or ideally to the second Tomb King faction I've been ranting about

Their other stronghold could be the Black Tower of Arkhan (with the swathe of desert on other side of the current Tomb King territory), and maaaybe Mourkhain in the centre of the Badlands (though that has been overrun by Greenskins, and making it a priority region to reconquer is a better idea). Or the territory attatched to Nagashizzar/the Cripple Peak could be split in two. East of Nagashizzar is the Plain of Bones, and once a Vampire named Vorag forced some tribes of Ghouls to build his fortress there. Having it recrewed by the Nagashite Tomb King faction isn't much of a stretch...

Maybe one of the Chaos factions could start with one or two provinces in Norsca? Sort of like England has Calais in MTW2. Was there a land bridge between Calais and the Islands? I can't remember, but one would be useful here... Many Norsemen worship the Chaos Gods anyway, and this should make their raids into the Empire easier On the other hand, a buffer zone of rebel Chaos provinces between the Dark Elf territories and those of the Chaos factions would be good. Both cultures would have non-aligned territory to conquer this way.

How about several Dwarf Holds being initially occupied by Greenskin or Skaven rebels? That would give the Dwarfs some non-aligned territories to conquer, and would represent their reconquest of lost Holds very nicely. These would also be great targets for mainstay Greenskin and Skaven factions' expansion. Of course this presents a problem with building types. These should be useful for Dwarfs, Greenskins, and Skaven alike, so that if either faction conquers a territory, it won't require too much rebuilding. These three factions could also live in the mountains between the Empire and Bretonnia, though that means creating brand new regions there.

Rebel Tomb Kings have already been suggested, and that is a good idea. According to the lore (I just hate the word "fluff"), these make their home (wanted to type "live" at first, but then reconsidered it...) to the east of the World's Edge Mountains, and are led by King Phar. These should not be included in the Nagashite Tomb Kings faction, should it emerge, but remain rebels. Also, Lahmia (the northeasternmost region currently held by the Tomb Kings) should ideally have *Vampire Counts* rebels, but with no general, just troops.

Vast majority of the Greenskin territory should be turned into rebels, or else the Greenskins should be split into 3-4 factions. These need little-to-non differences regarding the units can they recruit and buldings they can build, but it will make other factions' lives easier.

Bretonnia can expand into Estalia, I guess, and the Empire can invade Kislev and the Border Princes... but maybe they ought to start out a little smaller and expand on their own lands first? around 1,500 IC Gilles le Breton only *started* uniting the Bretonni tribes into the modern Kingdom of Bretonnia. At the same time the Empire was ravaged by civil wars. That's an ideal opportunity to make several of each states' provinces rebels (I know I ranted about splitting the Empire into several factions, but I had a change of heart). That'd make the Vampire Counts' life easier too!

The easternmost Lizardmen province should really contain the High Elf settlement of Arnhelm/Arnheim. As has been suggested, these may be rebels, so that the High Elves have something of their own culture to conquer too. The fun part is that I belive a land bridge between Ulthuan and Arnheim would be a good thing.

Also, note: more often then not, the Dark Elves occupy (or attempt to occupy) Ulthuan's outer northwestern provinces, which are their own ancestral lands. They once managed to hold these lands for almost 1,000 years. The game could start with a large Dark Elf army there, ready to begin conquest, or maybe even with a province or two under Druchii control! With unrest and whatnot, because the locals are of Asur stock and freshly conquered, of course. That would bring conflict to the otherwise secluded Ulthuan early on, and would somewhat protect the Dark Elves from being crushed between the Lizardmen and the closest Chaos faction. This loss of High Elf provinces could be easily made up by splitting some of their larger territories, making up settlement names, if need be.


I thank you for your time


Lord Gorthuar de Veris
Cult of Nagash

[Gorthuar]

Since for some strange reason I can't edit my own posts, here goes another!

I just noticed that the four great Imperial City-States are separate provinces. Good call! This made me think... perhaps that would be a way of strenghtening the Vampire Counts faction, which currently seems hard pressed. Make castles such as Drakenhof and Vanhaldenschlosse provinces in their own right, separate from Sylvania, and voila! Cheating a little, I know. But hey, it works (:

Also, the Bretonnian province of Moussillon should be crawling with either rebel Vampire Counts, or outright belonging to the faction. Since someone saw fit to introduce a Skaven territory in the middle of Bretonnia (the Black Chasm, iirc), why not make the Massif Orcal a Greenskin province? Even if only rebel...

Final suggestion for today: some of the Badland and even Border Princes provinces could contain rebel Undead of either kind. Not nearly enough to overshadow the Greenskin eminence in the Badlands, but still, these regions are littered with burrow mounds from the time of Mourkhain (these would be Vampire Count rebels), or even earlier Nehekharan (Tomb Kings rebels) tombs.

I thank you for your time


Lord Gorthuar de Veris
Cult of Nagash

[Casuir]

Well, first off that map was never intended to be a final representation of the factions and area they control. Nor is it completely accurate in terms of regions, theres already been some changes since that was posted and will probably be more in the future. Anyways to answer your points.

Crippple peak is skaven yes, havent done the research on it yet but it could be changed. Anything involving Nagash is very important lore wise so dont count on having a faction led by him. Remains to be seen whether anyone whos loyal to him is important enough to deserve a faction slot.

Arkhans tower is on the map but I'm not sure who actually controls it yet, Mourkain is in ruins and to the best of my knowledge nobodys there. Theres one of the strygoi controlling a region in the border lands, whether thats part of a faction or rebel remains to be seen. Plain of Bones and the ruined fortress of Vorag are off the map.

Norscans are not true chaos worshippers, just heavily tainted humans. They do normal stuff like trading so get treated seperately. That said we want to bring chaos down from the north some helping might be needed. Theres a couple of things planned for this, remains to be seen how the ai will handle them. some one I think earlier in this thread mentioned the high number of provinces in norsca, that was a decision made from a fear the ai would get bogged down up there, it will be probably be adjusted when testing is done. Norsca is a pretty large area and its almost all mountains and forests, pathfinding is a concern.

Far as the other side of the map goes probably a slaanesh faction would be the best choice for here, they should head south but the dark elves shouldnt really be trying to go north, their interests lie southward.

Having dwarf settlements held by orc or skaven well, thats the way the map is now, dwarfs should really be starting at war with those two and not be worrying at all if they're part of a faction or rebel.

Can you quote a source for the king Phar lore, as for Lahmia its my understanding that the tomb kings drove the vampires north to the silver pinnacle.

As I already said, that map isnt a final representation of the factions. Orcs wont start with that much.

Yet to fully agree on the time the mod will be set but it probably wont be then.

Arnheim is the settlement above the lizardmen provinces, and it nominally High Elf at the mo as I havent found a concrete source stating it as such. High Elves fighting eachother doesnt sound likely to me though. High elves arent really the conquering type and the way the ai handles them should reflect imo.

We'll be looking at ways to bring the Dark Elves down to Ulthuan, their victory conditions will be the capture of it for example. Any army though that far away from its homeland will have a limited chance of survival unless it can take and hold quickly.

Sylvania isnt important enough to warrant splitting into many regions, sorry but this is warhammer total war not nagash total war. We'll be looking at ways of making things a bit easier from any vampire factions but

Theres a limit to the amount of provinces we can have, dont think its worth wasting one here. Black Chasm is an important enough Skaven settlement to warrant one but I fear its one with a limited lifespan. Dont see anything in the new VC armybook about Mousillion to suggest any VC presence here.

There will be some undead presence in the border regions, badlands is orc turf though. Undead have their main playground to the south and its fairly secure, dont see any reason to make life easier for them.

[born2dive67]

The only thing we were thinking of changing was to add a land bridge at the top right corner, so Chaos lands had a natural route south into the Empire lands without relying on the AI to figure out it needed a boat to do it with!

Well another solution to not adding land bridges would be to use XAI as the AI will use boats to move troops around very nicely. heres a link



http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...&highlight=xai

just a thoughtful suggestion, not sure if you already saw this or not and decided not to use it.

Otherwise this mod looks kick butt and i cant wait for it to be finished. till then i'll be a lurker

[Bwian]

XAI is something I am aware of and will be looking at. The thing causes some serious balancing issues in the stock game ... but no way anything in this mod is standard anyway!

The author seems to have designed it to be flexible in terms of how it is employed, and that is good. It;s not a 'blind alley' kind of deal, but rather something that can be tuned to get a desired effect. Having more use of seaborne invasions is something I want to have anyway. I always considered that the Northmen should be raiding Viking style, and that the High Elves, with no land borders, should be able to move out, or be attacked. There natural tendancies are not expansionist, IMHO, but they should able to expand!

[Jonlissla]

*Looks at the map*

How come that the Empire is supposed to be the largest faction, while Chaos has ALOT more territories?

(Yes, I know it's not the final map, but still.)

[Dogman55]

*Looks at the map*

How come that the Empire is supposed to be the largest faction, while Chaos has ALOT more territories?

(Yes, I know it's not the final map, but still.)

Because the Chaos factions will be split into four groups representin' the four chaos gods. The Empire is United!

[Eufarius]

And United they shall stand!

[Dogman55]

And fall! The age of man shall come to an end! And the Original Masters shall retake their rightful spot atop the Warhammer world!

[Gnashfang]

*Looks at the map*

How come that the Empire is supposed to be the largest faction, while Chaos has ALOT more territories?

(Yes, I know it's not the final map, but still.)

Also, I'd assume chaos controlled all of the chaos wastes, so chaos probably is bigger, but it's just not mapped or charted by other races since you go mad/get corrupted if you get close to the wastes. And also, as pointed out by others, they're divided and squabbling amoungst themselves.

[Dogman55]

Foolish men, all of you! WE bred your ancestors from the suckling parasites our masters made you. Your race has always been guilty of arrogance, and the skulls atop our temples and altars lay testament to that. Just wait, for soon the moon will be stained red, and the cold blooded keepers will cage the wild pets of the Old Ones.

[alexader]

"Foolish men, all of you! WE bred your ancestors from the suckling parasites our masters made you. Your race has always been guilty of arrogance, and the skulls atop our temples and altars lay testament to that. Just wait, for soon the moon will be stained red, and the cold blooded keepers will cage the wild pets of the Old Ones."

Dogman55,from where you saying that,from a cage locked up in the imperial zoo?muahhahahahahaahahah,silence beast or there is no food today.muhahahhahaahahah.gentlemen,as you pass from here,there is a cage with one so called sent from the old ones,a beast not any more fearfull,but mastered,let me show you.ON YOUR FEAT LIZARD!!!!!!good boy,now go back,back or there is no food.shall we pass down to the other cages?we have some zombies,they are so sweet,and a vampire on the back.

I know what is your fear!!!!your fear is a cage!!!a cage in the imperial zoo!!!!!muahahahahahahahhahaahahahahhaha