The Warhammer Campaign

[alexader]

Whatever.........................................................................................

[Underway]

Map looks good, a few ideas for factions and for world modification.

Land bridge between Norsica and the chaos wastes, they are connected through Kislev and Troll country. The Kislev city Erengrad lies in the middle of this connection and has been sacked numerous times as chaos raiders head south.

If Kislev is added then the more northern Skaven territory the Festering Pit can be added, another Dwarven settlement and Praag, and Kislev can be added as rebel territories.

Chaos: I recommend strongly that chaos be represented by ONE faction Chaos Undivided, and the character would be the chosen Champion of the Chaos Gods "Archaon". In order to get Beserkers, Nurgle chosen, Tzeench sorcerers etc... your building choices allow you to get them.

The way to balance this with where chaos is located is to do it the same way the Moors and Russia are done in M2TW. Make really large territories that take ages to cross. It is the Chaos "WASTES" for a reason. You could also have a number of rebel "Chaos" territories that need to be conquered to "follow the chosen champion" and taught respect (or bought off by the Dark elves to fight against this false champion etc etc...). This means that though chaos would start with a balanced sized faction and could either expand against a few rebels, or attack the civilized nations at the start of the game.

Also Marauders are often from Norsica. The Norse Maraduers are follow the chaos gods in the form of the Raven god, War god etc.... and believe that mutations are gifts from the gods. Norsica should therefore be a place where some of chaos's territories are from.

High Elves: High elves do have a single continental territory/colony in the new world. Its due west Ulthuan and called Arnheim. Its a fortress for defence of the surrounding farmlands, prime targets of Dark elf raiders. So the HE are like the English. Island nation with Normandy. This brings the HE more quickly into conflict with the core DE and Lizardmen territories.

Skaven: Skaven need more territories. They have bases running from Skavenblight (zombie swamps) along the Black Mountains to the Vaults near the Border Princes and a territory up in Kislev (Festering Pit), on in the heart of Brettonia and one in the Grey Mountains near the Empire/Brett border. Also a territory in the Worlds Edge Mountians (Karak Eigh Peaks) shared with gobbos.

Vampire Counts: Silver Peak (in Grey Mountains IIRC), Sylvania (city of Drakhenhof), The Blood Keep in the Empire, and of course the cursed city in Brettonia... Mousillon. 4 territories mostly spread on an east west axis with sylvania east and Mousillon east. Very difficult for the VC but they also provide some interesting challenges.

Orcs and Gobbos: I would recommend the Orcs and Gobbos start in a similar way to Chaos. Orc empires are built by smashing all the other Bosses in line. As such its not a stretch to think of a Tribe controlling 4 or so territories in the Badlands/ Darklands/ Worlds Edge Mountains. This tribe them bashes up rebel settlements of orcs and anything else that gets in the way to grow the WAAAAAAAGH!! It seems fairly easy. Take 80% of the orc settlements on the map and make them rebels. I would recommend that the orcs be the major foil to the dwarves and the Tomb Kings so having them come out of the Badlands would be a good spot.

Dwarves: Dwarves need at least one port right off the start so Barak-Var has to be in. Its beside the Badlands (orcy area) and the Border Princes (definition of rebel settlements). Karaz-a-Karak is the Captial and in the middle of the Worlds Edge Mountains. The rest of the territories should be in the worlds edge mountains and one in the black mountains (Karak- Norn). The map is a fairly good representation of this.

Dark Elves: Live in 6 great cities. Some territories can be combined, especially if you place the ports in the correct spot, aka Hag Graef and Clar Karond. Ghrond is really a Castle more than a city but has an important strategic placement.

The Empire: Altdorf, Middenheim, Nuln, Averheim, and Talabheim are really all the territories you need (to start the campaign). Make Marienburg a rebel (as it is a city state), Sylvania a Vampire counts. The Moot could also be a rebel place. Those halflings never pay their taxes. Also the MIddle mountains and the central forests are crawling with Beastmen and Orc "rebels".

Bretts: The bretts have a number of territories but to start they should concentrate on their main core places and bring other rebel dukes, Massif Orcal (city of Quenelles lies beside it) in line with the king. So Parravon as a citadel, Bordelaux as a port city, Brionne, Montfort, Couronne. Bastonne would be the skaven territory, Mousillon is Vampire counts, and the Pale Sisters ( Gusoeux) rebel orcs.

Tomb Kings: This is pretty straight fwd as well. Tomb Kings are always fighting each other for who is the rightful king. Not all bow to Settra, so he may start with say 4 territories and then eliminate the rebel TK factions. Not to hard to have the TK be balanced for starting faction strength. The key with them is ensuring that they don't have an easy time conquering arabia if it has to many territories. Once again the M2TW allows a solution. Araby is mostly desert. Perhaps 2-3 rebel factions control the cities way out there. Thus not to much places for the TK to expand before they are forced to fight the orcs, dwarves or cross the seas to deal with the skaven etc...

The map provided makes a good start but there are a tonne of ways to improve it and match the Warhammer world fluff much better than what was provided, as well as balancing out some of the factions better against each other. (which of course has much to do with playtesting).

[Dreq-Kai]

I voiced a concern in the Lizardmen thread, but I'll put it here too.

I don't mean to criticize or complain or sound ungrateful, please bear that in mind, I'm just pointing something out.

Lizardmen don't live up in Naggoroth there...

The highest city they have is Hexoatl, which is in the Warhammer equivalent of Mexico.

Also, you have a concern about the Vampire Counts correct? And that Tomb Kings Empire is ready to Roll over Araby, right?

I believe I have a solution.

Extend the map a bit further south. If you include a little more of Lustria, you can make the Vampire Coast, and give the Undead some more territories. This will also let the DE's go a little lower, and have more accurate lands.

As for the TK. If you were to make a Southlands Rebel or other playable faction, you could contest that massive region a lot more.

Just my thoughts, feel free to comment.

[Dreq-Kai]

To reiterate what I mean... I made a little map from that fake one on the front page. The campaign map is currently like;



My suggestion was more like...;


I think that through this you can accomplish a few things;
1) Lizardmen Territories can be more accurate.
2) You can reposition DE's more accruately
3) You can add Southlands as either Rebel Lizardmen or a separate faction. This will slow the Massive Tomb King advance.
4) This will prevent the DE crush from both sides, as DE's would be a bit further from LM and you they could solidify a bit before they are hit.

[Eufarius]

I think Bwian said the map was already final, correct me if I'm wrong.

[Dreq-Kai]

Oh? I didn't get that from what he said. He did say they were thinking of changing it, like the Land bridge. So, I thought it safe to assume it was still being made.

Speaking of which, where is Bwain? I haven't had the pleasure of meeting him yet.

[Dogman55]

Of course nothing is better then hearing it from the Bwian's mouth (wasn't going to call you a horse lol), I think the change he referenced was more to the territory boundries/amounts then changing of the water and land areas. Who knows though.


He's probably in his basement toiling with computer programs for our future pleasure. God bless him!

[alexader]

GOd sAvE bWaIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MangyElf]

Um, guys, what's with the praise? It's not as if he's the messiah now is it. If he is locked in a basement then I say fwee Wodderwick, Bwian's got work to do!

PS don't stone me if those lines have been done to death

[alexader]

A HERETIC,A HERETIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!YOU SEE,IS A HERETIC!!!!!!!!BURN HIM TO THE STAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!BURN HIM!!!!!!!!!!MUHAAHAAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Steel*Faith]

I wanted to know how the Greenskins lifespans for their leaders were gonna work? They really don't have a natural age of death, so could a successful Orc leader live as long as he isn't killed in the campaign?

[Maniacus]

Could have an above average life span and then have his death be explained by being succeeded in orcish style (1 v 1 combat) by a rival (heir).

[Eufarius]

In the game I dont think that you can tell a character to die at a certain age, maybe you can put it in as an event but I dont think the engine can do that.

[Maniacus]

Nah i meant simply change the message of your king has died that is currently used in medieval to something like: "The warboss of your clan was challenged and beaten by an orcier orc"

It would be a pretty simple solution if it is possible to change

[Jargon]

I think the problem with tailored messages for each race is that other races sharing the same culture or religion will also reiceve that message. So if orcs and chaos have the same culture, then Chaos will also recieve the Warboss death message.

There has been previous discussion regarding culture and religion in other threads, but I don't think Bwian has yet to lay out a set structure.

[WereVrock]

Nah i meant simply change the message of your king has died that is currently used in medieval to something like: "The warboss of your clan was challenged and beaten by an orcier orc"

It would be a pretty simple solution if it is possible to change

But generals those aren't faction leader also die. I don't remeber the original message but I think it also must be changed to something like: "Your warboss killed him beacuse he did something wrong" or "he has been killed when he challenged the warboss of your clan"

[Decker]

Have you guys discussed the issue about armies rebelling when they are too far away from "home?"

I was thinking one day, that my armies always rebelled on my when I would play vanilla M2TW and it would tick me off (even when those buggers were in my borders right next to my capitol!!)... Then I thought... how would rebellion work in Warhammer Total War!?... So I'm here asking you guys (discussing the workings of the campaign), how it should/could (if possible) be implemented.

Like a lone Empire army makes a foray into Chaos territory but their commander doesn't have the strength/piety so-to-speak and his army becomes a Chaos army/brigand army. Whereas an Empire force with a stronger commander has an extremely smaller chance of "turning to the dark side" if in the same situation. And on the other hand a Chaos army has little chance of turning good or turning what-so-ever whenever an army, no matter the strength/piety of its commander.

Just wondering if it's possible to mod in or even mod at all 'cuz I don't know those/these things.

[Jonlissla]

I don't get it, what's your point?

[Decker]

I don't get it, what's your point?

My point is, is that will armies be more tolerant to becoming "rebel" armies as it seems that in the warhammer world that unless chaos is involved in some way, there is little doubt that anyone would rebel.

[Jonlissla]

My point is, is that will armies be more tolerant to becoming "rebel" armies as it seems that in the warhammer world that unless chaos is involved in some way, there is little doubt that anyone would rebel.

That's not entirely true. Generals might think that they are a better leader, and might go for the kill. Orks will problably betray you because they want a good fight and so on. Skaven might think that their leader is weak, and want to replace them.
Just because the Empire has their kind of propaganda, doesn't mean that everyone would gladly sacrifice their lives for the Emperor.

There are plenty of reasons to WHY a general should betray their leader. Chaos might be an option when your troops are stationed in their territory, but they would no less be rebels, because Chaos isn't united, more like divided. There are plenty of Chaos cults through out the land, and they are FAR from friends.

[Decker]

That's not entirely true. Generals might think that they are a better leader, and might go for the kill. Orks will problably betray you because they want a good fight and so on. Skaven might think that their leader is weak, and want to replace them.
Just because the Empire has their kind of propaganda, doesn't mean that everyone would gladly sacrifice their lives for the Emperor.

There are plenty of reasons to WHY a general should betray their leader. Chaos might be an option when your troops are stationed in their territory, but they would no less be rebels, because Chaos isn't united, more like divided. There are plenty of Chaos cults through out the land, and they are FAR from friends.

O well it was just a thought.

[Jonlissla]

I also had a small thought, and that's about castle walls. Will Orks have simple palisades while the Empire has enormous stone walls etc? The game would be pretty hard if you're playing any of the "barbarian" races.
However, I do think that Orks would rather be on the field than sitting in a dark corner in a large castle. Perhaps that's the solution?



And it would be really fun if you could change the language into Orkish, you know, like "Red unz goes fasta!".

[Abokasee]

I also had a small thought, and that's about castle walls. Will Orks have simple palisades while the Empire has enormous stone walls etc? The game would be pretty hard if you're playing any of the "barbarian" races.
However, I do think that Orks would rather be on the field than sitting in a dark corner in a large castle. Perhaps that's the solution?



And it would be really fun if you could change the language into Orkish, you know, like "Red unz goes fasta!".

"Boss! your maties juzts got stabbed in da night night!!"

"Your boys are no betta than da little rat men! they run from orcs do da best!"

"Boss! Boss! da enemy is arda than we think-ed first! the ave took a settlement!

[Spankfurt]

Pertaining to character age...It's unnecessary to have every race's characters age differently, and too much work...I say just let them age as they do in M2TW.... Maybe for Elves make it start at like 58974 years

[Silaris]

I feel different. I believe it is an important part of the mod to have ages set to a level akin to that which they should be. It would make little sense for Malekith to die of old age after 15 turns, for example.

[Romavictor12345]

That's not entirely true. Generals might think that they are a better leader, and might go for the kill. Orks will problably betray you because they want a good fight and so on. Skaven might think that their leader is weak, and want to replace them.
Just because the Empire has their kind of propaganda, doesn't mean that everyone would gladly sacrifice their lives for the Emperor.

There are plenty of reasons to WHY a general should betray their leader. Chaos might be an option when your troops are stationed in their territory, but they would no less be rebels, because Chaos isn't united, more like divided. There are plenty of Chaos cults through out the land, and they are FAR from friends.

They had better sacrifice their lives FOR THE EMPEROR!!!!

[Jonlissla]

"Boss! your maties juzts got stabbed in da night night!!"

"Your boys are no betta than da little rat men! they run from orcs do da best!"

"Boss! Boss! da enemy is arda than we think-ed first! the ave took a settlement!

PRICELESS!

It would make little sense for Malekith to die of old age after 15 turns, for example.

Yeah, imagine the headlines: "Archaon, Lord of End Times, Bringer of Darkness, The Herald of Chaos, the man destined to rule the Old World, the man which the Chaos gods themselves unites behind.... died of old age this morning."
It doesn't really sound that good.

[Enthes]

i have to admit i laughed

i have to agree but i am not sure if anything can be done about it as i think it is hard coded

[Silly Knicket]

Any modifications to aging affect all factions and characters.
In a small, predetermined campaign, it could be accomplished by triggers, and killing off named characters, but in a random campaign, I doubt it.

[DaCrAzYmOfO]

I think EB or RTR has a character trait that makes a certain character immortal....it was given to leaders of rebel settlements and stuff...

Well anyways yeah someone could check up on that or ill do it later...although im pretty sure its RTR...