Lusotannan

[Kepper]

Will this Lusotannan unit have new skin
1ºIberi Velites
2ºIberi Milites
3ºIberi Caetrati
4ºIberi Equites Caetrati
5ºIberi Scutari
6ºLoricati Caetrati
7ºIberi Curisi
Because this unit´s skin are forme EB v.074, compere it the new unit of EB v0.80 and EB v1.0 my god they are ugli.

[Son of Perun]

I agree with Kepper. They are not even ugly but also unhistorical, as the Iberians were of north-african origin and should have much darker skin.

[Sarcasm]

Am I going to have anyone flogged here?

[Kepper]

I agree with Kepper. They are not even ugly but also unhistorical, as the Iberians were of north-african origin and should have much darker skin.

In 280 BC the Iberinas have long gone they have became Celti-Iberians
map of Iberian peploe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:E...RRAPUNICAT.GIF

[Son of Perun]

In 280 AD the Iberinas have long gone they have became Celti-Iberians
map of Iberian peploe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:E...RRAPUNICAT.GIF

So why are their units called Iberian and not Celt-Iberian?

Sorry for saying the Iberians were of north-african origin, it's just a theory. But I still think that in EB they look like some north-european people.

[Kepper]

I have found this:
Greek colonists made the first historical reference to the Iberians in the 6th century B.C. They also dubbed as Iberians another people, currently known as Caucasian Iberians. It is not known whether they had any connection or if it was just a coincidence of names. The Iberians most likely made contact with other cultures long before this, however. The Phoenicians established their first colony on the Iberian Peninsula in 1100 B.C. (Gadir, Gades, modern Cádiz) and probably made contact with Iberians then or shortly thereafter.
and this:
The origin of the Iberians is not known. There is no proof about a hypothetical origin in North Africa, today an obsolete theory.

[Spoofa]

In 280 AD the Iberinas have long gone they have became Celti-Iberians
map of Iberian peploe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:E...RRAPUNICAT.GIF

AD? thats sorta way out of the time frame of EB

[Kepper]

Sorry is in BC not AD

[Lusitani]

Hmmmm

[Sarcasm]

In 280 BC the Iberinas have long gone they have became Celti-Iberians
map of Iberian peploe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:E...RRAPUNICAT.GIF

So why are their units called Iberian and not Celt-Iberian?

Sorry for saying the Iberians were of north-african origin, it's just a theory. But I still think that in EB they look like some north-european people.

I have found this:
Greek colonists made the first historical reference to the Iberians in the 6th century B.C. They also dubbed as Iberians another people, currently known as Caucasian Iberians. It is not known whether they had any connection or if it was just a coincidence of names. The Iberians most likely made contact with other cultures long before this, however. The Phoenicians established their first colony on the Iberian Peninsula in 1100 B.C. (Gadir, Gades, modern Cádiz) and probably made contact with Iberians then or shortly thereafter.
and this:
The origin of the Iberians is not known. There is no proof about a hypothetical origin in North Africa, today an obsolete theory.

Wowowow! Christ!

Iberians were Non-Indo-European in stock, and definitely NOT Celtiberians. Iberians were probably already there *before* any kind of Indo-European penetration in the peninsula, along with those that would become the enclave of the Vascones group of people (in the modern day Basque country) at first occupying a large portion of southern Aquitania, then gradually pushed over the Pyrenees and gradually descending along the Ebro valley which was terminated at about the Roman invasion.

The penetration of Indo-European cultures displaced or so completely changed the cultural make up of the Northwestern half of the peninsula that the other bronze age cultures largely ceased to exist. Proto-Celtic people like what would become the Lusitani, the Vettones and Callaeci probably entered the area around this time, roughly 1400 B.C. The two next large waves (there was of course always a constant small-scale migration over the Pyrenees) of Indo-European populations, during the 9th and the 7th century, were now full-fledged Celts, and would eventually come to dominate or heavily influence most of the Northwestern half of the peninsula (the Cynetes, an Tartessian stock people that lived in modern southern Portugal, were fully Celticized by the time the Lusitani destroy their capital). The latter migration was the one that brought with it the most of the elements of the La Tene culture, and gave form to Celtiberians.

The 4th century would see an internal migration with the Celts living to the south of the Tagus, to pack up their bags along with some of the Turduli and proceed north in the direction of the Callaeci (modern day Galicia) where they were dispersed after a quarrel killed their leader. The displacement of a large section of these tribes would later on allow the Lusitani to come to dominate the area and penetrate deep into the Guadalquivir valley while at the same time be displaced from the North. Constant migrations would see each of these guys occupy the places that you see on that map.

The origin of the Iberians is totally unknown, but even if they 'came' from North Africa, it does not mean that they were the same as the Lybians that inhabit the area by the time the Phoenicians get to *a* part of it. To base the aspect of the Iberians on later people (and I assume you're talking of modern Berbers who are not as a whole, by the way, very dark) is wrong and downright a prejudice from Eastern Europeans. No, they were not probably Slavic white, blue-eyed people, but neither were they dark. Consider for example the modern-day Spanish people of the Valencia area that even after *centuries* of Berber and Arab presence (the cause of the genetic similarities) are not very different from other southern European people.

Most likely these guys were another form of Mediterranean people, much like the Etruscans, the Oscans or the Umbrians. Frankly you can even find parallels in certain Italian cultures and the Iberians (in art, weapons, language, customs). This of course has no basis, I'm just thinking out loud - ultimately, we just don't know.

[LusitanianWolf]

I dont know much of the Lusotannans (a shame) or about iberians in general, but I also think that most non factional Lusotannan iberian units need to be reskined. They are not in the same art degree than most Eb units.
BTW, Lusotannan factionals and elites are awesome
What I dont like its that they have an very restricted recruitment pool (Lusotannan factionals only in two provinces and very deep in Iberia, since movement in Iberia is very limitated you'll have large problems to keep an factional army).

[KARTLOS]

I agree with Kepper. They are not even ugly but also unhistorical, as the Iberians were of north-african origin and should have much darker skin.

i think that is pretty insulting. even if they were of north african origin it doesnt necessarily mean that their skin should be darker. for example alot of berber people have fair skin and light hair - there has been several instances of blonde berber children being mistaken for the missing british child madeleine.

at the time there had not been a significant influx of black slaves or arabs to the north african coast and as such it would be fair to asume that the people looked different. i think the fair skinned berber would have been more typical of the time.

[runes]

the luso army is pretty much the best in the game, for me anyway.

out of the experimenting i've done, their cheaper units beat more expensive units virtually every time.

i shredded gestaesae, pedites, phalanxes and had a few units of cataphract charge head on into light spear and they were halved in no time.

added to this the access to the falxmen and you one hell of an army.

[mAIOR]

What I know about the Lusotannan is that their origins cannot be placed. They had in general, fair skin and brown~dark hair.
I think their units are well represented in EB as all Iberian units in general. If you want further proof, the "darker" natives in nowadays Portugal have Arabic ancestors not Africans.


Cheers...

[WCrusader]

I ppl :) im glad i found this topic :)

Just to introduce what im about to write :)
I am Portuguese and i have in from of me one of the most complete history books of Portugal.... smells of old :)

In this book we have the information that the first writen texts about the iberian coast were written in 520BC by a massalian explorer.
They say there were phoenicians and cartaginans on the southern shores
Gadir was founded by phoenicians in XII BC
There were already indeginous populations when they arrived of unknown origins.

Hehe nice find :) we had leather ships by that time... and we sailed to Britain in them :)))))
Crazy bastards...

After this time period, final bronze age, we started having migrations from central-european tribes.
And our cultures merged, they were called the first indo-european migrations.
And then we got some more phoenician colonies on the southern shores.
With the phoenician colonies trade became abundant because we had bronze mines...

Well i think this is enough to tell the first steps of our civilization.
The book is named :
History of Portugal : Volume I - Before Portugal
written in Portuguese of course :) dont know if there are any translations to english.

Sarcasm i guess you are right about the info you got :)
If you need any more help on this subject i can read more and translate it.

Cya
WCrusader

[mAIOR]

No need. Sarcasm is one of us too... We are slowly taking the Forums!!


Cheers...

[KARTLOS]

as non-indo euurpoeans, arethe iberians thought to have something in common with modern day basque people?

[Thaatu]

Maybe as the whitest guy in Finland, I fail to see "darker skin" as an insult. Some are just too sensitive.

[Son of Perun]

Sorry if I insulted anyone, that certainly wasn't my intention.

About the Iberians and the colour of their skin, I've found something interesting in an article about the ethnology of Britain:

Julius Caesar, like many other men of his time, is somewhat reticent on such subjects; but Tacitus, who wrote a century later, gives much fuller information. These early accounts show that probably in the time of Cæsar, and certainly in that of Tacitus, there existed in these islands two distinct types of population:–the one of tall stature, with fair skin, yellow hair, and blue eyes; the other of short stature with dark Shill, dark hair, and black eyes. We further learn that this dark population, represented by the Silures, bore considerable physical resemblance to the people of Aquitania and Iberia; while the fair population of parts of South-East Britain–the present counties of Kent and Hants–resembled the Belgæ who inhabited the North-East of France and the country now called Belgium These Belgæ, again, were closely akin in physical characters to the tall fair people who dwelt on the east bank of the Rhine, and were called Germani.

It seems that even the Romans thought of the Iberians as dark-skinned. But in EB you really can't see any difference between the Iberians and, for example, the Celts.

[blank]

Sorry if I insulted anyone, that certainly wasn't my intention.

About the Iberians and the colour of their skin, I've found something interesting in an article about the ethnology of Britain:

Julius Caesar, like many other men of his time, is somewhat reticent on such subjects; but Tacitus, who wrote a century later, gives much fuller information. These early accounts show that probably in the time of Cæsar, and certainly in that of Tacitus, there existed in these islands two distinct types of population:–the one of tall stature, with fair skin, yellow hair, and blue eyes; the other of short stature with dark Shill, dark hair, and black eyes. We further learn that this dark population, represented by the Silures, bore considerable physical resemblance to the people of Aquitania and Iberia; while the fair population of parts of South-East Britain–the present counties of Kent and Hants–resembled the Belgæ who inhabited the North-East of France and the country now called Belgium These Belgæ, again, were closely akin in physical characters to the tall fair people who dwelt on the east bank of the Rhine, and were called Germani.

It seems that even the Romans thought of the Iberians as dark-skinned. But in EB you really can't see any difference between the Iberians and, for example, the Celts.

[wild, sweeping guess] Well chances are that the Iberians were just significantly more tanned than their Celtic comrades. [/wild, sweeping guess]

[Sarcasm]

as non-indo euurpoeans, arethe iberians thought to have something in common with modern day basque people?

Hmmm...good question actually. Previously there's been some attempts at connecting both cultures, and there was even a hypothesis that their language was related. All attempts failed to have any credible acceptance in the scientific community.

Current thinking, after the failure to connect them, is that they're rather two distinct and very different people. Like I said before, both must have already have been established and well into development in the peninsula by the early bronze age. These guys were pushed into their respective areas when other cultures were assimilated/wiped out by various migrations of early Indo-Europeans up until the early Hallstatt period, and then those themselves pushed by late Hallstatt and La Tene Celts.

Maybe as the whitest guy in Finland, I fail to see "darker skin" as an insult. Some are just too sensitive.

I said it was prejudiced, to think that just because we're southern European that we somehow look like dark North-Africans. We don't, we look European just not ghost white, blue-eyed or fair-haired for the most part. Talking to a certain Norwegian the other day, we were discussing Portuguese girls, and when I showed pictures of two of my ex's he was stunned to find out that they were not only green-eyed (I have a thing for those, my current g/f has them too ) but they were both blondish, so it's clear there's a rather idiotic stereotype running around. Hell, my grandfather and my grandmother had blue eyes, so does my father and my sister's hair is a dark-blonde (even though I have neither).

I'm not going out of my way to beat up someone over this, just understand that it's annoying and I do know perfectly well that he meant no real harm by it.

Sorry if I insulted anyone, that certainly wasn't my intention.

About the Iberians and the colour of their skin, I've found something interesting in an article about the ethnology of Britain:

Julius Caesar, like many other men of his time, is somewhat reticent on such subjects; but Tacitus, who wrote a century later, gives much fuller information. These early accounts show that probably in the time of Cæsar, and certainly in that of Tacitus, there existed in these islands two distinct types of population:–the one of tall stature, with fair skin, yellow hair, and blue eyes; the other of short stature with dark Shill, dark hair, and black eyes. We further learn that this dark population, represented by the Silures, bore considerable physical resemblance to the people of Aquitania and Iberia; while the fair population of parts of South-East Britain–the present counties of Kent and Hants–resembled the Belgæ who inhabited the North-East of France and the country now called Belgium These Belgæ, again, were closely akin in physical characters to the tall fair people who dwelt on the east bank of the Rhine, and were called Germani.

It seems that even the Romans thought of the Iberians as dark-skinned. But in EB you really can't see any difference between the Iberians and, for example, the Celts.

Actually, EB's Celts use a bigger skeleton than our Iberians (someone called them elf-like in some other thread), and have a good percentage of blondes in there while the Iberians have none (0, zilch, nada, niente).

Speaking in modern terms, you can of course separate most Brits, from say southern Spaniards. Doesn't mean that said Spaniards should be compared to modern North Africans and have "much darker skin".

[Kepper]

I can one of dev member aswer my question?
Will this Lusotannan unit have new skin
1ºIberi Velites
2ºIberi Milites
3ºIberi Caetrati
4ºIberi Equites Caetrati
5ºIberi Scutari
6ºLoricati Caetrati
7ºIberi Curisi
Is there any point in making remarque about to skin tone
a star this thread because i want to now if there any planes to give a skin to the old unit of the Lusotannan

[blank]

I can one of dev member aswer my question?
Will this Lusotannan unit have new skin
1ºIberi Velites
2ºIberi Milites
3ºIberi Caetrati
4ºIberi Equites Caetrati
5ºIberi Scutari
6ºLoricati Caetrati
7ºIberi Curisi

I would say probably not. At least not in EB1

[Moros]

Not in 1.1 and probably in no other 1.x version. In EB II on the other hand we'll have nes ones, though for EB II the iberi equites caetrati will be replaced by another unit.