Roman Auxillia question

[Centurion Crastinus]

During the 1st century A.D./B.C., what was the deciding factor on who was recruited into the legions and who was recruited into auxillia units. By this time period, most of the legions were recruited in the provinces and I know that citizenship was a defining factor on whether the draftee was going to be in the legions or the auxillia. But, many auxillia units were recruited in the provinces like the Batavians out of present day Holland. I know that alliances with tribes would give Rome mass quantities of levies for the auxillia units during the late republic. I was also under the impression that Hadrian extended citizenship to all people residing in the provences, so by that time, where was Rome getting its Auxillary units from?

[cmacq]

Hadrian extended citizenship to all people residing in the provences?

Actually, its called the Constitutio Antoniniana, and it was issued in AD 212, by Lucius Septimius Bassianus (aka Caracalla; meaning Gallic greatcoat).

[Centurion Crastinus]

Honestly, Severus was my second guess.

[cmacq]

Actually, Severus was my first guess. I had to look it up, as he was the father and Caracalla his badass son. Did you hear about the headless Romans recently found in York?

[Starforge]

Actually, Severus was my first guess. I had to look it up, as he was the father and Caracalla his badass son. Did you hear about the headless Romans recently found in York?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/program...omans_01.shtml

and a couple other links with differing views:

http://tonykeen.blogspot.com/2006/04...ss-romans.html

http://alexbordessa.blogspot.com/200...-skellies.html

There were quite a few other links in the search if people want to dig deeper.

[cmacq]

During the 1st century A.D./B.C., what was the deciding factor on who was recruited into the legions and who was recruited into auxillia units. By this time period, most of the legions were recruited in the provinces and I know that citizenship was a defining factor on whether the draftee...

hope this helps.

Roman Legionary = the regular army; mandatory service for all adult males, age, citizen, class (landownership early, rank, placement, office). However, not all males were required to serve in the army.

01 Contubernium - 8 Men = an army section or two combat teams
10 Contubernia 1 Century - 80 Men = an over strength army platoon
02 Centuries 1 Maniple - 160 Men = an army company
03 Maniples 1 Cohort - 480 Men = an army battalion
10 Cohorts + 120 Horsemen + organic support = 1 Legion - 5240+/- Men and x number of Officers = an army brigade or an under strength army division (as cohorts grouped right, left, and center; possibly organized as regiments)

axillia = mercenary/irregular/native/foreign forces; specialized troops organized along native lines. noncitizen, cavalry, archers, light infantry, and heavy assault infantry.

The Constitutio Antoniniana didn't actually give citizenship to all adult males, it just opened it up to a larger group. Each year a very large number of people entered into Roman territory. I've seen an estimate of 100,000 new people, were required for labor/slaves alone, every year just to maintain the status quo in the late 1st century BC.


However, you didn't ask about Numeri and Cunei?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Please don't try to equate the Roman and modern army, it just flat out doesn't work. As you just proved.

A Legion was fixed, numbered unit. In that sense it is equivelant to a regiment on infantry, a cohort to a battallian and a century to a company.

HOWEVER, that only tracks to the modern army, during the Napolionic Wars the paper strength for a battallian was 1,000, in 10 companies.

[cmacq]

Please don't try to equate the Roman and modern army

Right, in the post-civil war american southwest a troop/cav. company had only 45 men and horse. No mater what the numbers I call it relevance...

as all modern armies are indeed based on the basic roman system. That is as much a fact as ever there was.

[Centurion Crastinus]

That's real interesting. It's amazing what might be lurking underground in one's own back yard.

[Centurion Crastinus]

Were their actually sub-saharan africans serving in the ranks of the Roman Army. Those blogs said that some people had that opinion. I always assumed that anyone recruited from Africa was more likely to be someone with lighter skin. Kind of like the way someone from North Africa would look today.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Right, in the post-civil war american southwest a troop/cav. company had only 45 men and horse. No mater what the numbers I call it relevance...

as all modern armies are indeed based on the basic roman system. That is as much a fact as ever there was.

Not really, the Roman army we are talking about had utterly collapsed and modern armies more closely resemble the much later armies of the Late Empire. The gulf of some 1000 years between the end of the Western Empire and the rise of properly organised armies with regiments means there's no direct connection.

In any case the maniple was not a significant unit in the post Marian legion, the century and the cohort were.

My point remains the same though, the terms don't map so don't try to force them to fit because it doesn't work. Just learn how the system worked and don't try to dumb it down.

[cmacq]

don't try to dumb it down.

wise words, that we should try writing without, hubris?

[cmacq]

as all modern armies are indeed based on the basic roman system.

Sorry, I was seeking to make a simple point without getting to tightly wond around the tire, as to relevance. I belive that many do not understand the parallels between between the 'Roman Maniple-Cohort-Legion' TO&E and the 'company-battalion-brigade/division,' found within modern armies, as it relates to the basic (not indepedent) maneuver and support element concept. This is the basic concept apon which all modern armies are organized. As the above was a general question about recruitment into the Roman Legion and Auxillia, I though a brief outline of the concept was appropriate?

the 19th Ct. corps is the formation that comes closest to the Legion.

thanks konny,

Right, at some point during the Republic the Romans seem to have discovered a number of hard facts concerning the limitations of human communication and leadership (command and control). I belive the US army was initially based on a combination of the late 18th and early 19th centuries French organizational models, British military tradition, mixed with German drill. Right, by the Civil War large US field forces were looking like Roman Legions. However, it wasn't until after WWI til they were fully modernized and began to resemble more closely the Roman organizational model and rediscovered certain facts about C&C, and the maneuver and support element concept.

"basic" and "supportive"

thanks for clarifying,
I was being general and tried to cover all the bases.

you must be German, right?

auf


However, lets just say I'm totally wrong and just move on.

[L.C.Cinna]

you must be German, right?

auf


However, lets just say I'm totally wrong and just move on.

Yes I am lol


why?