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Thread: Praetorians, Imperatoria, Evocata

  1. #31
    Member Member kambiz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Praetorians, Imperatoria, Evocata

    I'm not a Romani fan ,However I've played them in v0.81 And I think Basileos ton Ellenon is right. Because while Praetorians were far more powerful in 0.81 ,Still because of their very limited AOR ,And considering I have plenty of golden experience republican legions and Evocata ,They were not my emipre's elite unit as they should be. I only held them because of historical joy ,and their upkeep was nothing for my already wealthy emipre. the bloody jobs were all up to Republican legions and Evocata (All first trained before imperial reform) and those of early recruited imperial legions.

    EB is a historical mod ,and I don't mean to change this as I love this mod because the same historical accuracy. However ,Still some values are question for me. Cohors Evocata for instance ,regardless of those leg greaves,they are reenlisted legionaries ,which means they are seen battle and thus have some real combat experience compare to ordinary legionaries. If we pose some already recruited troops in front of the same amount of toldiers who have passed away the same training ,But have experienced real battles ,Then logically those experienced ones can beat the newly recruited soldiers. But Evocata's defence skill is the same as ordinary legionaries !

    There is some changes I made in the satues of these units that I'd like to offer you. I used Cohors Reformata as the base unit



    Cohors Evocata




    Increased thier Defence Skill with one point to reflect the experience they gained from their previous battles. It'd not a big deal ,just one point more than ordinary legionaries.
    Also added one point to their Armor becuase of those greaves they have on each of their legs. I see you mentioned/counted the single greave Pezhetairoi (and two greaves those Ptolemaioi Agema) have ,So why not give one point to them for the two greaves they wear?!

    Cohors Praetoriana




    I added two point to the armor value of these guys ,Because not only they have one greave for each legs ,But they also using imperial gallic helmet compare to ordinary legionaries. BTW ,They get the best empire can provide. Also at least in look ,Their armor seems not inferior to those of Selukidd ,Aigyptous and Makedonian elite phalanx have !
    Also decreased their "Defence Skill" ,Because Although their training is a bit more extensive ,But still is pretty much the same as ordinary legionaries. They are only the sons of more important romans ,Willing to fight ! So I see no reason having them one point Skill than other legionaries.

    Cohors Imperatoria

    It is true that these guys are not better than their Republican bretheren ,But Still for sake of gameply and as the player have to waite till imperial reform to get them and thus expect something better ,I suggest to at least lower either their coast or their upkeep just a little bit. And it is not ahistorical Imo ,because are recruited in in roman imperial era ,and Legionary equipment already have become standardized. Also As rome have more territories ,thus more smiths available to produce these gears ,And we know that when something being massed produced ,Its price being lowered. By decreasing heir upkeep with 30-50 mani ,The players are encouraged to use them instead of Republican Legionaries

    This is just my humble opinion ,Not intended to disregard your efforts

    Cheers

    Forgotten Empire

  2. #32
    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Praetorians, Imperatoria, Evocata

    Greaves are actually worth two points (eg. compare Peltastai and Thureophoroi). These fellows are otherwise identically armed, but the veteran "old salts" background of the Evocata ought to be good for a slight hike in skills and morale. The Praetorians are a little so-so in that respect, given that they were AFAIK picked more for their political reliability than anything (nevermind now the later developements of the corps...) and tended to be a little short of practical experience in "soldiering" - but a higher morale value than the regular Cohorts have might at least be called for, if only due to the reliability thing and sheer pride in their elevated status.
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  3. #33
    Member Member King Philip II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Praetorians, Imperatoria, Evocata

    @Kambiz: I like your changes and will probably implement this when I get to the reforms in my Romani campaign. It was my idea to just give them +1 experience, but that seems a little over the top. I would also increase upkeep by 10% (loss of revenue from the farms/shops they are leaving) and remove the "hardy" attribute.

  4. #34

    Default Re: Praetorians, Imperatoria, Evocata

    whats the "hardy" attribute???

  5. #35
    Member Member King Philip II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Praetorians, Imperatoria, Evocata

    "Hardy" is good stamina and "very hardy" is very good stamina - it's displayed as a small heart on those great unit cards from the Recruitment Viewer.

  6. #36
    Asia ton Barbaron mapper Member Pharnakes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Praetorians, Imperatoria, Evocata

    Why would you remove it, though?

    They didn't get fatter just cause they had an fat Emperor instead of fat Senators.
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  7. #37
    Member Member kambiz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Praetorians, Imperatoria, Evocata

    Quote Originally Posted by King Philip II
    like your changes and will probably implement this when I get to the reforms in my Romani campaign.
    You're welcome mate But I made these changes only in those pic ,Not in the files. Because I prefer the standard setting of the game. This is just an offer to the EB team ,And if this look logical enough to them ,then I'm sure the team will implement it in the next release As I said ,I'm not a roman fan ,I'm Pahlava (And eastern faction in general) fan. But as I had a romani campaign in v0.81 ,I checked their units in EB1 to see what changes have been mad to them.

    BTW ,there is no difference for my Knightly cast Savaran ,If the team keep the same status or make the Legionaries as powerful as they were in 0.81. They are nothing to my men. They even less important than their Hellenic pike bearer bretheren who already become the servants of the "Great King". My men see them as bunch of good looking boys ,Still not experienced a big thing like our Kontos in their butt

    Cheers
    Last edited by kambiz; 11-18-2007 at 11:39.

    Forgotten Empire

  8. #38
    EB II Romani Consul Suffectus Member Zaknafien's Avatar
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    Default Re: Praetorians, Imperatoria, Evocata

    Quote Originally Posted by Pharnakes
    Why would you remove it, though?

    They didn't get fatter just cause they had an fat Emperor instead of fat Senators.
    well, they didnt campaign either. Praetorians were parade troops, essentially. Which is why artists who used them as basis for legionaries on things like Trajan's column placed them all in LS.


    "urbani, seruate uxores: moechum caluom adducimus. / aurum in Gallia effutuisti, hic sumpsisti mutuum." --Suetonius, Life of Caesar

  9. #39
    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Praetorians, Imperatoria, Evocata

    What, you mean they should be wearing the LS or something ?
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

    -Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

  10. #40
    EB II Romani Consul Suffectus Member Zaknafien's Avatar
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    Default Re: Praetorians, Imperatoria, Evocata

    in later periods, yes.


    "urbani, seruate uxores: moechum caluom adducimus. / aurum in Gallia effutuisti, hic sumpsisti mutuum." --Suetonius, Life of Caesar

  11. #41
    Member Member King Philip II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Praetorians, Imperatoria, Evocata

    Quote Originally Posted by Pharnakes
    Why would you remove it, though?

    They didn't get fatter just cause they had an fat Emperor instead of fat Senators.
    I would assume that middle-aged men didn't have the same stamina as they did when on active service.

  12. #42

    Default Re: Praetorians, Imperatoria, Evocata

    Middle-aged is a rather broad term. If you'd ask the Greeks the age of 40 was about the best age you could have - as a man that is. (It is called the "akme"; or top.)

    Mind you middle class citizens which is what the 40 year old veterans were, mostly, did have the time on their hands to regularly go and see the local gym from the inside. They did have the money to keep fit; they did have the money to go and see a doctor whenever they needed to... And they did have a lil' bit of experience which told them when and how to spend their energy: they knew how to endure battle.
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  13. #43
    Member Member King Philip II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Praetorians, Imperatoria, Evocata

    Middle-aged is a rather broad term. If you'd ask the Greeks the age of 40 was about the best age you could have - as a man that is. (It is called the "akme"; or top.)
    I used the vague term of "middle-aged" on purpose, since I wasn't sure what the average age were of re-enlisted legionnaires.

    I thank you for your kind words - being in the early forties myself, I was pleased to see your response :)

    Anyway, my purpose was just to figure out some stat changes that would differentiate the Evocata from regulars, without making them anything special.

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