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Thread: How To Use Billmen

  1. #1
    Lord of Underpants Member Seabourch's Avatar
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    Default How To Use Billmen

    Currently as the English, I deploy Billmen behind the spearmen as the defence sucks in the same line as armoured swordsmen and DFK. An I doing it right or is there a better right. As a note, they're not as good as their MTW1 couterparts.( once played late part of campaign using only them as infantry).

  2. #2
    Cruel and cunning Member marrow's Avatar
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    Default Re: How To Use Billmen

    Don't expect billmen to hold your line for long. I usually deploy them behind archers when defending. Longbowmen stakes usually soften the blow of a cavalry charge sufficiently for my billment to step in and mop up while archers are reforming.
    Billmen will not last in the open field though (just check their defence...) and if I cannot hide them behind stakes, I use them solely as flankers, main body of my army then formed of archers + spears right behind them.
    Dunno, seems like you're right, billmen shone much brighter in MTW, but then again I haven't had pleasure with M2TW's heavy billmen yet, they may be a bit tougher and better suited for front line service.

  3. #3
    Member Member Henry707's Avatar
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    Default Re: How To Use Billmen

    Drogba,

    I too remember the billmen in MTW1 - wow those guys should have had superhero capes & wore their pants on the outside - they rocked.

    For me, as a billman fan, they are a real let down in MTW2 & I hardly use them. I just find that whatever job you want them for, there is another unit which is either better or more cost effective.

    Henri
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  4. #4

    Default Re: How To Use Billmen

    Not to mention their Billhook is tiny and stupid looking, what's the deal with that. Then they have that stupid 'hit them in the legs and they flip' animation ugh.

  5. #5
    Cruel and cunning Member marrow's Avatar
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    Default Re: How To Use Billmen

    Oh, one more thing, can anyone confirm whether they have anti-cav bonus or not? A unit of mamluk archers ploughed through 2 units of billmen, no charge, just melee and my silly bill-brandishing children didn't seem to do them much harm at all. Is it meant to be like this and if so - back to the original question - what is their use in M2TW if they have any?

  6. #6
    Prince Louis of France (KotF) Member Ramses II CP's Avatar
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    Default Re: How To Use Billmen

    Billmen simply aren't very effective. Their main use is as anti-armor troops on the flank of an already pinned unit. For example if the enemy has armored swordsmen and you have only billmen and spears you let the AS engage your spears and push the billmen in on a flank.

    Billmen's defense value is very low relative to professionial infantry, so any unit which hits them head on is probably going to plow right through them. Cavalry head on will simply wipe them out. If you can get them on a flank against a pinned enemy, however, they can slowly chew their way through heavily armored targets.

    Personally I'd rather have more spears and archers than any billmen.


  7. #7
    Festering ruler of Insectica Member Slug For A Butt's Avatar
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    Default Re: How To Use Billmen

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramses II CP
    Billmen simply aren't very effective. Their main use is as anti-armor troops on the flank of an already pinned unit. For example if the enemy has armored swordsmen and you have only billmen and spears you let the AS engage your spears and push the billmen in on a flank.

    Billmen's defense value is very low relative to professionial infantry, so any unit which hits them head on is probably going to plow right through them. Cavalry head on will simply wipe them out. If you can get them on a flank against a pinned enemy, however, they can slowly chew their way through heavily armored targets.

    Personally I'd rather have more spears and archers than any billmen.



    Exactly the way I see it, I never train many and the ones I do train are used for flanking duty. Their AP attack makes them useful for flanking and General killing but not much else.

    EDIT: Would you rather have a unit of Billmen or Dismounted English Knights on the flanks?
    That's why I don't train Billmen.
    Last edited by Slug For A Butt; 11-15-2007 at 19:48.

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    Member Member Mori Gabriel Syme's Avatar
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    Default Re: How To Use Billmen

    In a full stack, I will have a couple of units of billmen for old time's sake. They are good at killing armored units if those armored units can be engaged from the front by something else first. So like others, I use them for flanking, like cheap, slow cavalry.

    Their weapon is supposed to be the bill-hook, but the "bill" part seems to be missing on the model.

  9. #9

    Default Re: How To Use Billmen

    heavy billmen are useful, but only if flanking or behind stakes.

    i do add them in, and when counter charging into the units that are biting into your spearmen units, absolutely devastating to their morale. but bills should never ever be consider as standard troop-of-the-line unit. their slow animation, 2-hander bug, and lack of defense give them the survival rating of peasants, just like Beckett in Church really.
    Shinai Fodder

  10. #10
    Lord of all Under-Thumb Member Jason X's Avatar
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    Default Re: How To Use Billmen

    Quote Originally Posted by imnothere
    give them the survival rating of peasants, just like Beckett in Church really.
    LOL! can i borrow that crowbar for my next historical reference?
    "Patriotism is the belief that your country is better than any other because you were born there"

  11. #11

    Default Re: How To Use Billmen

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason X
    LOL! can i borrow that crowbar for my next historical reference?
    certainly :-) although i do believe that i borrowed Becket-inna-church from an old reference elsewhere which i cant remember. feel free to whack anyone with it (the crowbar, or the bill...oh wait, sorry 2hander bug).
    Last edited by imnothere; 11-19-2007 at 00:06.
    Shinai Fodder

  12. #12
    Lord of all Under-Thumb Member Jason X's Avatar
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    Default Re: How To Use Billmen

    hehe - i wonder if a crowbar would count as armour piercing?
    "Patriotism is the belief that your country is better than any other because you were born there"

  13. #13

    Default Re: How To Use Billmen

    Heavy Billmen are OK units, I usually keep a few in my English armies. They're very effective against militia and spear units. I have noticed though that they are vulnerable to cheap units with the "effective against armor" trait. These include Ceitherne, Highlanders, Highland Archers, and other axe-armed units. Heavy Billmen will usually defeat these units, but they'll take an irritating number of casualties.

    I don't use them in battle lines though, since they're very vulnerable to cavalry charges. Which is dumb, since the billhook was used as an anti-cavalry weapon (the billman would use the hook to unhorse heavily armored knights). I suppose their ineffectiveness vs. cavalry is to avoid making them a super-unit.

  14. #14
    Member Member WhiskeyGhost's Avatar
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    Default Re: How To Use Billmen

    Quote Originally Posted by napoleon526
    Heavy Billmen are OK units, I usually keep a few in my English armies. They're very effective against militia and spear units. I have noticed though that they are vulnerable to cheap units with the "effective against armor" trait. These include Ceitherne, Highlanders, Highland Archers, and other axe-armed units. Heavy Billmen will usually defeat these units, but they'll take an irritating number of casualties.

    I don't use them in battle lines though, since they're very vulnerable to cavalry charges. Which is dumb, since the billhook was used as an anti-cavalry weapon (the billman would use the hook to unhorse heavily armored knights). I suppose their ineffectiveness vs. cavalry is to avoid making them a super-unit.
    they work fine against cavalry, in a melee. its the charge that they can't take.


    "Don't mind me, i happen the have the Insane trait....." -Me

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    Member Member Mr Frost's Avatar
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    Default Re: How To Use Billmen

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoring
    Not to mention their Billhook is tiny and stupid looking, what's the deal with that...
    I agree , someone decided to get "creative" I think .
    The version they are using in game was known as a Forrest Bill and sometimes as a Dueling Bill , was used as the name suggests for fighting in close quarters and they still made it a bit too short . The full/standard Bill was far longer .

    They could have gotten away with Forrest Bills {though a bit longer than was modeled} for militia units and standard Bills for castle units but what using the {rarer} Forrest Bill for all was poor judgement I feel .
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  16. #16

    Default Re: How To Use Billmen

    I do not agree. Bills and bill militia are fine commoner heavy inf, even the best considering the easy and early availability. the troops they should be compared to are continental halberdiers: voulgiers, militia halberds, obudshaer bachelors. and any axemen. like-for-like, the billmen are winners. cash-for-cash even more so. billmen are not knights, they are hedgelayers on national service. they are bread-and-butter stuff.

    personally i would criticize militia halberds though. for HRE esp., these need a bit of modding. halberds should be steady formations that can defend the crossbows, not this free gift for the gravediggers' union.
    But vain the spear and vain the bow,
    They never can work War's overthrow;
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    Alone can free the world from fear
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  17. #17

    Default Re: How To Use Billmen

    I agree with Tacticus, you have to compare them to Halberd Militia, not D*Ks. I assume their purpose is as miltia defending cities. No charges, all melee, all arse whomping.

  18. #18
    Lord of all Under-Thumb Member Jason X's Avatar
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    Default Re: How To Use Billmen

    LOL @ D*Ks

    I'm now going to always read DFK with the expletive!
    "Patriotism is the belief that your country is better than any other because you were born there"

  19. #19
    Senior Member Senior Member Cheetah's Avatar
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    Default Re: How To Use Billmen

    Quote Originally Posted by ReiseReise
    I agree with Tacticus, you have to compare them to Halberd Militia, not D*Ks. I assume their purpose is as miltia defending cities. No charges, all melee, all arse whomping.
    Well, halberds are a complete disaster, anything will shine if you compare them to halberds.
    The fact is that billmen are pretty much redundant, even for city defense spearmen are better. Spearmen have more numbers, better vs cavs, better vs a gaterush.
    Billmen would be used if you could not train spears in your cities. With spears available they are pretty much useless IMO.
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  20. #20
    Merciless Mauler Member TheLastPrivate's Avatar
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    Default Re: How To Use Billmen

    Billmen are not too different from woodmen in eastern european factions for me, except they wear plate and stuff.
    Cheap and u throw them away if needed but does not hold a particular role in game due to better alternatives.


    Gae Ma Ki Byung:
    Possibly the earliest full-armored heavy cavalry in human history, deployed by the Goguryeo from the 3rd century A.D.

  21. #21

    Default Re: How To Use Billmen

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason X
    LOL @ D*Ks

    I'm now going to always read DFK with the expletive!
    I like that, but I didn't even think of how it looked when writing it, I was just trying to combine DFK and DEK.
    Last edited by ReiseReise; 11-28-2007 at 20:42.

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