Changes to battle experience from RTW vanilla

[Bill Westwater]

As a newcomer to this mod, i have noticed a few notable changes to battle, and was wondering if there was naywhere that explains them more fully. For example, infantry seem a lot less vulnerable to rear attacks than previously, and battles seem to be a lot longer. Is this just changes in Morale or are there other reasons for this. Thanks.

[gurakshun]

As a newcomer to this mod, i have noticed a few notable changes to battle, and was wondering if there was naywhere that explains them more fully. For example, infantry seem a lot less vulnerable to rear attacks than previously, and battles seem to be a lot longer. Is this just changes in Morale or are there other reasons for this. Thanks.

yeah, units are a lot more heavily armored on the whole and morale and other attack/defense factors were increased so that battle lines actually lock, instead of breaking within 5 seconds like vanilla. i know its a jarring experience to come from vanilla to EB, but its well worth it once you get the hang of it. even now i still have stereotypes burned in my mind about vanilla.

EDIT: lethality was also significantly lowered too (chance to kill someone with a hit). There is a lot of knockdowns but the rate of deaths was slowed to be more accurate and represent the difference between unit weapon types (in vanilla lethalities were all 1, here short swords, AP weapons, long swords, AP long weapons all have different killing rates here). that also contribultes greatly to the battle lines locking effect.

[Bill Westwater]

The thing i found most alarming was, as the Romans, ngaging a unit of pikes frontally then attacking it from the rear with cavalry and it still did not break, but barely even recived any extra casaulties. That was odd, to say the least. It also seems as it firepower has been significantly weakened, which means javelin armed troops ate a lot less effective. Is this correct, in general?

[LusitanianWolf]

Cavalryavalary have now an diferent way to use:
Now you have to do some micro management and do multiple charges with them, never letting them being engaged in melle agaisnt infantry or they'll be slaugtered (there are some exceptions, but this is mostly the rule).


Go to the FAQs, I think there are the answers to this questions.

Anyway: welcome to the best RTW mod ever

The thing i found most alarming was, as the Romans, ngaging a unit of pikes frontally then attacking it from the rear with cavalry and it still did not break, but barely even recived any extra casaulties. That was odd, to say the least. It also seems as it firepower has been significantly weakened, which means javelin armed troops ate a lot less effective. Is this correct, in general?

Attacking pikemans from the pikes head its almost useless, and as I said with cavalry you have to charge more than once.
Missile attacks are much more efective from behind or from the non-shield side.
And dont play in hight dificult levels from the start until you get used to the gamestyle. EB is more suitted to medium battle game dificult, and hard or very hard campain map.
And factions have now diferent dificult levels, Rome or Cartage are the best ones to start.

[konny]

Cavalry is much weaker than in RTW. Missle troops cause less damage because the tragets are better armoured/have better shields.

[Ketchup]

I wouldn't agree with Konny, i think commanding cavarly has become harder but if used effectively they can be devestating in the charge (especially heavier cavalry) and also, as said before, it would be a good idea to micromanage your cav and charge, pull out and repeat until the unit breaks.

[Decimus Attius Arbiter]

It takes more to kill phalanxes with cav charging from behind. If you wait until the enemy is tired and surrounded, they will be vaporized in a matter of seconds when you charge. No one escapes.

It's not that rear attacks don't work. It takes more time to work. I like using AP infantry for that purpose.

[Pharnakes]

I wouldn't agree with Konny, i think commanding cavarly has become harder but if used effectively they can be devestating in the charge (especially heavier cavalry) and also, as said before, it would be a good idea to micromanage your cav and charge, pull out and repeat until the unit breaks.

We all do this, I am sure, but I sometimes wonder how realistic it is?

Was the cavalry of those times disciplined/organised enough for such tactics?

[konny]

We all do this, I am sure, but I sometimes wonder how realistic it is? Was the cavalry of those times disciplined/organised enough for such tactics?

I don't think that any cavalry did fight in that manner. They would only retreat and charge anew if the initial charge was repulsed. And even that would be a sign of poor leadership because the same cavalry that had just been beaten back would hardly be able to breake the enemy now on spent horses and much reduced in numbers. (the classical: Ney at Waterloo)

Even a successfull charge did breake the cavalry because the men and horses were exhausted and, even more problematic, the horsemen tended to chase behind the fleeing enemies instead of keeping the cohesion as a unit. There were only a handfull of cavalry commanders in history who were able to keep their cavalry under controll once the charge started.


If you want to play your EB cavalry historical:

- Go for the enemy cavalry first.

- When you have chased it off, make one mass charge with all cavalry units on your assault wing on the enemy infantry.

- Do not pull back and charge anew, but let your cavalry fight until the infantry had caught up and can take over.

- Do not call back cavalry that is chasing fleeing enemies until it has routed them from the map or killed them.

[Treverer]

...but if used effectively they can be devestating in the charge (especially heavier cavalry) and also, as said before, it would be a good idea to micromanage your cav and charge, pull out and repeat until the unit breaks.

Well, I used this "hit-and-run" micro-mamagment thingie once and the result was that I lost my FM. Reloaded the game, faught the battle anew and waited until I saw that the unit I wanted to charge was wavering. Charged, unit broke, and set off a chain reaction. Lucky me.

... though I still consider myself as a "Terrible Tactician".

Yours,
Treverer

[Intranetusa]

In EB, you need a longer distance between your cavalry and the enemy so they pick up speed for their charge. Also, you need "real" heavy cavalry - light, medium, and medium-heavy cavalry are quite poor as shock cavalry troops because of their low charge values.

Romans in particular have crappy factional cavalry, so I usually recruit the regional heavy Pedite Cavalry and mercenary Hellenic heavy cavalry.

[cmacq]

I normally mass my horse to take away the enemy's horse after baiting them into piecemeal attacks. If I'm in luck iI'll get the enemy leader in this way as well. That way there will be no mischief among my missile troops, flanks, or rear. Next, take away the enemy missle troops and wait like a wolf on a far flank for the their line troops to tier and waver. Then I've found a ride straight down and just to the rear of the enemy line, no charge needed, will often set off a chain reaction route. After this try to use the horse to mop up as many of the fleeing as they can.