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  1. #1
    AtB slave trader Member Malik of Sindh's Avatar
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    Default The Suren clan of Pahlava

    I am playing a pahlavan campaing right now.I have a few FMs with Suren ethnicity and I am very interested in this clans history.If anyone knows any good sites or books on them please tell me.I really hope The Persian Cataphract will reply to this thread,his endless knowledge about Iranian history will really help me.

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  2. #2
    Marzbân-î Jundîshâpûr Member The Persian Cataphract's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Suren clan of Pahlava

    Apart from the fact that there are Zoroastrian groups in today's Iran claiming descent from them, while fostering somewhat different traditions and practices, while maintaining a great deal of treasures, and more importantly to the scholars, a much debated treasure of lost literature, there really isn't a lot to read about from Prof. Bivar's treatise on Gondophares, apart from the writings of contemporary Graeco-Roman authors (E.g. Plutarch) on the subject. We have a set of clan badges, coat-of-arms and insignia, and we know the clan had certain possessions along the Eastern frontier; Undoubtly the peaks of this enigmatic caste of nobility were during the age of "Surena's" campaigns against Mithradates III and the great victory and capturing of Roman standards at Carrhae. But also, if Bivar's (And ultimately Ernst Herzfeld) interpretation is correct, the conquests of Gondophares and the supplaunting of the "Sakavaraka", in effect as far as the Indian metropolis Mathura, certainly immortalized the "Pahlavas" in the writings of contemporary Indian chroniclers; It may in effect later have contributed to the Pallava colonian state in Dravidia, however that remains a matter of interpretation.

    There are supposedly unpublished "Sistan-cycles" providing legends and creative deviations of historiography which has lead to many of these conclusions. You may want to refer to Prof. Bivar's entry in Encyclopaedia Iranica:

    http://www.iranica.com/articles/v11f2/v11f2021.html

    http://www.iranica.com/newsite/artic.../v5f1a001.html
    Last edited by The Persian Cataphract; 11-17-2007 at 21:53.


    "Fortunate is every man who in purity and truth recognizes valiance and prevents it from becoming bravado" - Âriôbarzanes of the Sûrên-Pahlavân

  3. #3
    AtB slave trader Member Malik of Sindh's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Suren clan of Pahlava

    Thanks TPC

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  4. #4

    Default Re: The Suren clan of Pahlava

    Suren is an Armenian name pretty popular even nowadays. guess it derives from Persian like Tigran does?

  5. #5
    Marzbân-î Jundîshâpûr Member The Persian Cataphract's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Suren clan of Pahlava

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarkiss
    Suren is an Armenian name pretty popular even nowadays. guess it derives from Persian like Tigran does?
    Correct; Even though Armenian is a branch separate from the Iranian languages, even words such as "Aznvakan" (*winks to Sarkiss*) are derived from the Iranian cognate of "Aznavar" which means "noble". Other terms and phrases include "Aspet", "Nizak", "Zrahakir", "Sparapet", "Marzpan", "Marz", "Ambar", "Vajarakan", "Baghnikner", "Metz", and "Zoratun" are all the result of rather steady cultural exchanges.


    "Fortunate is every man who in purity and truth recognizes valiance and prevents it from becoming bravado" - Âriôbarzanes of the Sûrên-Pahlavân

  6. #6

    Default Re: The Suren clan of Pahlava

    Quote Originally Posted by The Persian Cataphract
    Correct; Even though Armenian is a branch separate from the Iranian languages, even words such as "Aznvakan" (*winks to Sarkiss*) are derived from the Iranian cognate of "Aznavar" which means "noble". Other terms and phrases include "Aspet", "Nizak", "Zrahakir", "Sparapet", "Marzpan", "Marz", "Ambar", "Vajarakan", "Baghnikner", "Metz", and "Zoratun" are all the result of rather steady cultural exchanges.
    Persian influece on Armenia is pretty big and diverse: from ancient relgious believes and rituals, royal dinasties to (as i have just found out, thanks TPC) even modern Armenian names. btw, "Ambar" is in use in Russian too. what does it originaly mean in Persian?

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    Bruadair a'Bruaisan Member cmacq's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Suren clan of Pahlava

    Quote Originally Posted by Malik of Sindh
    endless knowledge about Iranian
    right, no end to it as i bit my tongue.
    Last edited by cmacq; 11-17-2007 at 13:37.
    quae res et cibi genere et cotidiana exercitatione et libertate vitae

    Herein events and rations daily birth the labors of freedom.

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