Celtic elite units

[TWFanatic]

They are arguably imbalanced. The EB guys seem quite happy with their balance though and won't change anything, so your post is falling on deaf ears.

My recommendation is to go the modders way: reduce Gaesatae stats a bit. I reduced armor a few points (since they have higher armor than many armored units!). This is in keeping with historical accuracy anyways, as it was the Roman pila that was the downfall of these nudists at Telamon according to Polybius. Two hitpoints and 5 armor is a bit high for naked men IMHO, particularly considering that they were easy targets.

[jabarto]

About Druids...do they have a unique trait that isn't obvious? I can't think of any other reason for them to be more expensive and harder to obtain (they require a level 5 barracks instead of 4) than the nearly identical Calawre.

[Malik of Sindh]

About Druids...do they have a unique trait that isn't obvious? I can't think of any other reason for them to be more expensive and harder to obtain (they require a level 5 barracks instead of 4) than the nearly identical Calawre.

Druids raise the morale of nearby troops.

Stone,you should not blitz so hard.It raises the fun alot.Just a suggestion.

[Stone and Blood]

Druids raise the morale of nearby troops.

Stone,you should not blitz so hard.It raises the fun alot.Just a suggestion.

Just a Noob's questions xD: what blitz means? Well, i play at VH/M, and if you guys don't belive me i would take a screenshot of my campaing xD.

[skuzzy]

blitz from blitzkrieg "lighting war" basically saying you owned the shitz too hard too fast lulz, or something to that degree.

[Stone and Blood]

blitz from blitzkrieg "lighting war" basically saying you owned the shitz too hard too fast lulz, or something to that degree.

Lol xD. And jabarto, calaware got eagles too, but the cingetos are much more stronger talking about stats

[Stone and Blood]

Oh... but a thing that i really like about reforms is the casse's! After making some tests in custom battle i discovered that if you but the casse sword masters(the green guys with long swords) into a line and lose formation you can cover a realy wide area, so big that one group of these guys can ocup 3, 4 or 5 enemy units at the same time! And then resist very well because of theyr eagles, and if you put the general close theyr line is almost unbreackable. so with 4 of these units you keep the whole enemy army occupied while you just move with other troops, flanking and atacking them from back. With 30000 denary a created a army with the casse with 8 casse sword masters, 3 archers, 1 general and some levy troops against the gauls. i play with huge scale, so it was 2700 casse VS 3200 Aedui.They were with 5 gasaetae, many neitos, archers, and heavy cavalry. I killed them all and they killey just 400 units! very impressive, the reform for casse is very usefull, but to arveni and aedui are not much important, Gasaetae rulez O.o

[jabarto]

Lol xD. And jabarto, calaware got eagles too, but the cingetos are much more stronger talking about stats

I meant the Drwdae, the ones from Britain. The only difference between those and Calawre is that Drwdae have +1 Defense/-1 Attack.

[jabarto]

Druids raise the morale of nearby troops.

Stone,you should not blitz so hard.It raises the fun alot.Just a suggestion.

I thought the Calawre did that too?

[Stone and Blood]

About Druids...do they have a unique trait that isn't obvious? I can't think of any other reason for them to be more expensive and harder to obtain (they require a level 5 barracks instead of 4) than the nearly identical Calawre.

Jabarto, they got Eagles that inspires nearby troops, in my oppinion is the only Elite infantry after reform that is worth to recruit, but they can be recruited in only ONE region... and i haven't created any of these yet.

[Thaatu]

About Druids...do they have a unique trait that isn't obvious? I can't think of any other reason for them to be more expensive and harder to obtain (they require a level 5 barracks instead of 4) than the nearly identical Calawre.

I seem to be the only one who has actually used Druids... They have the special ability "chant", which is very cool & creepy in a way.

2. A naked man can dodge pretty well, but in the forecoming Historical Battle of Telamon you'll see for yourselves that a Gaesatae's worst enemy are Velites, lots of Velites with lots of pilae...

Gaesatae can soak up a lot of javelins from the front, because of their shields. It's sad that in RTW javelins don't get stuck in them, forcing the user to drop them.

[Pharnakes]

If someone was throwing javelins at me, I wouldn't drop my shield. Maybe when it came to close quaters, but I'd damn well hold onto it untill the romans stopped throwing pilla.

[Geoffrey S]

If someone was throwing javelins at me, I wouldn't drop my shield. Maybe when it came to close quaters, but I'd damn well hold onto it untill the romans stopped throwing pilla.

That's what you'd want to do, but try holding a shield upright and balanced with a number of pila sticking out of the front, dragging it down...

[skuzzy]

That's why I carry 18 shields.

[Elminster12]

Yeah, the reason javelins are underpowered in RTW is that the engine doesn't simulate shield damage. Even so, Gaesatae aren't too hard to manage. I generally like to have a unit of them if I can manage, and use them as sort of a crack troop, even when I play Pontos. Them and Hoplitai add a nice mobile wing to the army.

[jabarto]

I seem to be the only one who has actually used Druids... They have the special ability "chant", which is very cool & creepy in a way.

Carnutes can, yes. But I'm talking about the Drwdae, as in the Casse unit, which doesn't posess that ability and yet is more expensive than the Calawre with nearly identical stats.

[runes]

just nerf their defense stats or something in the file, rather than constantly complaining?

[Slim_Ghost]

I use naked fanatics mainly as a fear-inducing unit. Kind off a cheap but durable alternative to elephants or chariots.

[NeoSpartan]

I use naked fanatics mainly as a fear-inducing unit. Kind off a cheap but durable alternative to elephants or chariots.

Exactly thats what makes Gaesatae powerful right there.

I remember in MP Gauis was holding my Helvetii phalanx with some cheap units, and even though they were down to 30/120 they stayed fighting. I got pissed so I moved in my Gaesate (exposing them to javelings) behind my phalanx... and the Gaesatae said "BOO!" and they all ran away

[Thaatu]

Carnutes can, yes. But I'm talking about the Drwdae, as in the Casse unit, which doesn't posess that ability and yet is more expensive than the Calawre with nearly identical stats.

My bad.


About the Gaesatae helmet armor, I think it'd be plausible to divide the helmet bonuses between armour and defence skill. Considering that a helmet, especially cheekguards, are more protective in melee, since in a swordfight the juiciest target is the head, while with javelins and arrows and such you usually aim for the chest. If the Gaesatae armor was divided something like +3 armor, +3 defence skill, would that make a difference?

[pezhetairoi]

Right about the helmet, I had forgotten about that. I'll nerf that one skill and add 2 back for the helmet. Yups.

[NeoSpartan]

Right about the helmet, I had forgotten about that. I'll nerf that one skill and add 2 back for the helmet. Yups.

Pez... why don't u run a test take ur Gaesatae and have then fight another melee elite? Like Agyrastidai (sp), or some of those guys.

You will notice that Gaesatae don't tend to overwhelm them, even though they have 2 hps.

The Gaesatae's a**kicking nature is that they only take MIC IV to make (they used to be at MIC III!), but the real power is that they will rout your regular units when they are down 50-60/80. (unless u have a really good general)

[blank]

My bad.


About the Gaesatae helmet armor, I think it'd be plausible to divide the helmet bonuses between armour and defence skill. Considering that a helmet, especially cheekguards, are more protective in melee, since in a swordfight the juiciest target is the head, while with javelins and arrows and such you usually aim for the chest. If the Gaesatae armor was divided something like +3 armor, +3 defence skill, would that make a difference?

Happy birthday man

Here is a dancing elephant and his little band for ye:

[Thaatu]

Thanks mate, I'm a big fan of the pink elephant.

[Stone and Blood]

Thankts TWfanatic for your information, but i hope that someone of the EB team will read this and at least say something, even if they won't change anything...

[Redmeth]

They are arguably imbalanced. The EB guys seem quite happy with their balance though and won't change anything, so your post is falling on deaf ears.

My recommendation is to go the modders way: reduce Gaesatae stats a bit. I reduced armor a few points (since they have higher armor than many armored units!). This is in keeping with historical accuracy anyways, as it was the Roman pila that was the downfall of these nudists at Telamon according to Polybius. Two hitpoints and 5 armor is a bit high for naked men IMHO, particularly considering that they were easy targets.

2 things
1. There are some upcoming changes to the Gaesatae, regarding their AOR
2. A naked man can dodge pretty well, but in the forecoming Historical Battle of Telamon you'll see for yourselves that a Gaesatae's worst enemy are Velites, lots of Velites with lots of pilae...

We can't restrict their recruitment like we'll be able to in EB2, the AI will have a harder time spamming them but ultimately it's up to the player's restraint to only use them in small numbers, making a stack of general + 5 cavalry + 14 Gaesatae will probably own everything but it's just not EB

[blank]

We can't restrict their recruitment like we'll be able to in EB2, the AI will have a harder time spamming them but ultimately it's up to the player's restraint to only use them in small numbers, making a stack of general + 5 cavalry + 14 Gaesatae will probably own everything but it's just not EB

You could also (if you're Casse) make a stack of 1 general, 9 Goidilic tanks and 10 Gaesatae

I personally don't find the Gaesatae so useful, i prefer guys like the classical hoplites and Bosphoran archers

[tapanojum]

I personally dont like having more than a couple units of Gaesatae because it really ruins my gameplay experience watching thousands of naked guys swing their "spears" around

[Geoffrey S]

Nothing can stop the player from recruiting them if he so desires. They are strong, certainly, but again the player has an advantage in being able to use missile troops sensibly against these when they are enemies, something the AI fails to do.

[NeoSpartan]

2 things
2. A naked man can dodge pretty well, but in the forecoming Historical Battle of Telamon you'll see for yourselves that a Gaesatae's worst enemy are Velites, lots of Velites with lots of pilae...

Thank you.... and as Thaatu said: the RTW engine can't model pilums sticking to shields and the user dropping them.
and I say....Nor can the RTW engine model horsemen being dropped from cavarly, nor can the RTW model phalangites dropping thier pike to fight with swords and then having to pic them up from the ground, spend about 5-10minutes regrouping before using them again.... etc, etc.....


Gaesatae spamming is sure to lead to victory vs an AI that doesn't know how to fight. The only time spamming of elites is acceptable is when ur fighing VH/VH!! Even VH/H with fatige off IS NOT acceptable (as I am doing right now) Why??? Because ELITES of any faction were few and far between they should only make up a fraction of your army.

ALSO did u look at the Gaesate's cost???? Is like $3300-$3200 (btw is higher than it was in .81x), and only 60 guys. In SP that doesn't really mean much as U can train 2-3 full stacks of them and still have a profit so long as u keep sacking enemy cities and have a good economy. BUT try to do that in MP with a $25,000-$40,000 budjet, and you WILL NOT be spamming no Gaesatae. (trust me I tried in .81 MP when they were a bit cheaper, I was stuck with having 2-4)