Tell me about Constantine XI

[Ayachuco]

Mouzafphaerre:
Can't check sources right now but IIRC that's more a known fact than "probably". His body was identified from the imperial markings -presumably- he had forgotten to remove from some part of his clothing (shoes or something like that) and was given a proper funeral.

I know that his body was probably around where modern-day Sandjakdur Yokushan Square is and his head was cut off. They were able to identify his body b/c he had red or purple boots on with the double-headed eagle insignia embrodiered on it despite the Emperor's desperate attempt to remove all imperial reglia and symbols of office from his body. His body was buried with full imperial honors and a lamp was light with oil from Sultan Mehmed"s personal stores on the Emperor's gravestone. However his head was put on display in front of the Imperial Palace before it was reunited with his body.

Well, this was all I could find about the man that was of interest.

There is little information of what he looked like but they did describe him alot as a person. He was supposed to have been a perfect model of an ideal hero of antiquity and he wanted to realize his dream of restoring imperial glory by doing whatever he can to reach that goal even if it meant dying. During his father's reign, he served as regent for short periods of time although he had three older brothers. Manuel felt that he could trust Constantine to look after the affairs of the "Empire" far better than his elder siblings could. With Manuel's passing and his brother, John, ascension to the throne he was given Selymbria as his inheritance. He later headed to Morea and served under his brother Theodore and proved that he was an able commander and help rebuild the Hexmallion Wall. Despite Constantine's loyalty, Theodore grew jealous of his younger sibling's success and went to war with him. Constantine wanted peace since a civil war would throw the already divided empire into chaos and so he arranged a peace settlement where he traded the despotate of Selymbria for Morea. As despot of Morea, his first task was to strengthened the damaged Hexmallion wall before he can launch any attacks. In 1444, he launced a series of attacks into the northern Latin Greek feudal kingdoms and was initially successfull. However the feudal lords soon contacted Sultan Murad II and the Sultan would rout much of Constantine's forces. Murad would then race south and even breached the Hexmallion wall and slained thousands of Greek rebels. During his reign he tried to coerce the Mehmed by saying that he would use the false Sultan Orkhan to claim the Turkish throne if the Empire didn't get more gold in their annuities. He also sought the hand of Mehmed's concubine mother's hand in marriage but she refused and would honor her vow of becoming chaste if she ever escaped Murad's harem. So Constantine was forced to seek a Georgian princess's hand in marriage but she didn't leave early enough before Mehmed began his seige of the capital.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Bits and pieces:

The account of the finding of the body, the funeral and all are in accordance with what I remember/had read.

The Serbian concubine (Maria?) wasn't Mehmed's mother. Well, iirc she was no concubine at all but a proper wife through diplomatic marriage. Murad wedded her and died soon afterwards. Mehmed was already in his twenties. IIRC she was chaste when her husband died.

Murad (or Mehmed) forced the Despotis to damage the wall he had repaired with the threat of war (bringing in a sizable force).

Orkhan was baptized and fought fiercely in the defense. Was given the command of the walls around Samatya. He and his household were all slain fighting as well.

Another hero of the defense was Giuliano Giustiniani. Although a mercenary, he fought with vigour until getting badly wounded. He was granted safe passage by the besiegers. Don't know if he survived or died of his wounds though. Konstantinos's family was also given safe passage -iirc- to Moreas. Don't know where they ended up.

Konstantinos's mother was a Bulgarian princess (or of lesser nobility). That's why he was also referred to as Dragazis, by his mother's family name. That was used against him by his brothers and possibly other opponents.

Edit: Just realized the quote in your signature. That was his response to the envoys I believe. Dragazis might be Dragasis. I'm not sure about it but must be ending with -ης anyway to be nominative, AFAIK.
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[Hound of Ulster]

I read in several sources, including John Julius Norwich's work, that the last Byzantine Emperor was buried in a mass grave with the rest of the slain defenders, but it wouldn't surprise me if his body was picked out and given a seperate burial as Emperor.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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His body was buried at the Lips Monastery (whose church is the present day Fenârî Îsâ Câmii), which was the imperial grave chapelle of the Paleologi.

The ancient graves of the older emperors at the ruined monastery of Hagioi Apostoloi were transferred into a single mass grave when Sultan Mehmed's great mosque was to be erected in 1463. They disappeared around the XVIIIth/XIXth centuries, probably due to the changes in topography and neighbourhood structure resulted from mass-destructive fires. No burials were made around the great mosque, except for the tombs of Mehmed II and his first lady (Haseki Sultan) Gülbahar Ḫatun, until the late XIXth century. (Only the members and in-laws of the dynasty could be buried around the mosques of the sultans until 1840s.)

Self plug:

I participated in the works of a recent documentary book about Mehmed II's complex. We measured all mausoleons and graves and gathered an inventory. I was almost losing my fingers when I fell down together with a broken tombstone.

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[Hound of Ulster]

I didn't know that. Considering how many rulers of Instanbul have plopped a big monument down somewhere, that little tidbit isn't surprising.

[Ayachuco]

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Bits and pieces:

The account of the finding of the body, the funeral and all are in accordance with what I remember/had read.

The Serbian concubine (Maria?) wasn't Mehmed's mother. Well, iirc she was no concubine at all but a proper wife through diplomatic marriage. Murad wedded her and died soon afterwards. Mehmed was already in his twenties. IIRC she was chaste when her husband died.

Orkhan was baptized and fought fiercely in the defense. Was given the command of the walls around Samatya. He and his household were all slain fighting as well.

Another hero of the defense was Giuliano Giustiniani. Although a mercenary, he fought with vigour until getting badly wounded. He was granted safe passage by the besiegers. Don't know if he survived or died of his wounds though. Konstantinos's family was also given safe passage -iirc- to Moreas. Don't know where they ended up.

Konstantinos's mother was a Bulgarian princess (or of lesser nobility). That's why he was also referred to as Dragazis, by his mother's family name. That was used against him by his brothers and possibly other opponents.

Edit: Just realized the quote in your signature. That was his response to the envoys I believe. Dragazis might be Dragasis. I'm not sure about it but must be ending with -ης anyway to be nominative, AFAIK.
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I guess (Maria?) was Mehmed's stepmother, then. I thought I read something about her being his mother or something, but I guess the eye fatigue must have gotten to me. (Had to do some research on the "white" indians for a book assignment I'm reading for American History class)
I think Giuliano died (from loss of blood; he was described of becoming very pale and weak) of his wounds after getting to a port in a city named Chinos or Cheenos??? He did fight valiantly even without any patriotic or personal reasons (although some would say money would be enough of a reason even though he wasn't paid, was He?) and it was a shame he had to be injured at that point in the assault. Can you imagine how he would have fought if the city would have been Genoa and his wife was stuck in the city.
I read a diary of the seige by some Venetian soldier named Niccolo something and there was a list of the survivors of the Imperial family and where they went. Also at the end of the diary; it included a story of how a group of Greek nobility sought to win Mehmed's favour by giving him gifts of gold. By the time they have given all their gold; Mehmed executed them all b/c they were scum and deserved it since they didn't loan their gold to the Emperor and helped their city fall to him. Was wondering if this story is true.
I will fix the family name of his mother although I read that he actually prefered that to his surname due to the fact of how petty his brothers were. I don't know when he said that (I personally wished it to be his response when his nobles wished him to leave the city since they saw the fleeing Venetians/Geonese make it to their galleys and then he charged onward to the ST. ROMANUS GATE with his nobles relunctantly following him due to humiliation if they didn't and possible capture and paraded around the city as a prisoner.), but in most of the diplomatic discussions with envoys he would say something of that effect. In fact, in the last chance for a peaceful surrender the day before the final assault, he said something like We will never surrender and the other theatrics associated with the do or die personality.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Most of the Paleologi nobility with the potential of claiming the throne were executed and there needn't be any romantic reasons for that beyond the cold reality. But a certain Andreas Paleologos (possibly among others) survived, converted and became Ahmed Paşa (which Ahmed Paşa? I have to check. He had a prothet.) Well, I've just remembered another one: Has Murad Paşa, killed in the Otlukbeli battle against Uzun Hasan Pâdişah of the Akkoyunlu was also a Paleologos.

What I remember of Giustiniani is a bit different. He was a Renaissance type of guy with ideals (alongside his mercenary profession ) and grew some kind of adoration for the falling Vasileas, which was among the reasons for him not to leave while most others did and the Genoese of Galata switched sides quickly under the table.

Mehmed wanted the crown for himself and he indeed got it. The clergy was already divided and the zealous Orthodox faction easily styled the newcomer as the new Vasileas. That continued to the end. Solid evidence from as earliest as 1904 remains on the plaque at the door of a Catholic church in Pera. (I remember jotting down names of some of those men of cloak somewhere...)

The Komneni of Pontos were initially luckier. In 1461 when the ragtag emperor (was it Manuil?) surrendered without resistance, he and his sons were given fiefs (dirlik) in Bulgaria. One of his three (four?) sons converted. A few years later, a conspiracy much similar to Mary Stuart's cost their lives (including the convert prinkeps). Historians tend to believe it was Mahmud Paşa the grand vizier's doing and they were innocent. Nevertheless, Mahmud Paşa lost his head to a conspiracy not much later and he was also innocent on the account that he had been accused to death.

PS: I'm not sure if it was ΔΡΑΓΑΖΗΣ or ΔΡΑΓΑΣΗΣ so don't be hasty in changing your signature.
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[Ayachuco]

I don't think it would have made any difference if the Empire survived the siege of 1453, how long would that last? Until 1454?, Hah! Or until 1492 with the discovery of the New World, which would lead to a further decline of Constantinople as an important trade city. Although they did alreadly lost that namesake when the Venetian Crusade struck in 1204 and the later Ottomans were able to bounce back Instanbul's lagging trade network and they didn't even do much. The only thing I see possible is perhaps if they were able to get Gutenberg's printing press. All of those manuscripts preserved and printed into the thousands; what a treasure trove. Oh, well at least the Empire was the last Christian nation to have a beginning, a middle, and an end in Pre-Columbian times.
Didn't Guiliano volunteered to defend the post at the St. Romanus Gate when no one else wanted to since that would be the area where the Turks would focus most of their assaults? And that wound he recieved probably wasn't serious, but the war-fatigue and pain finally got to him I guess and he went aboard his ship with his men following him.
I think the Patriarch of Constantinople was abroad whenever the seige occured so they would have to get someone else (a think it was a monk, couldn't remember his name, who was promoted since he was the only one willing to do it since in theory the old Patriarch wasn't a Patriarch anymore do to the last Emperor's death, but I will have to check on that.) to do the coronation ceremony as Sultan-Basileas.
I remember seeing multiple spellings of the name, some with an "i" instead of the "e" and there was one version with two "s"s so I think I'm alright if I get it somewhat close to the actual spelling.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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The ruling patriarch refused to work under the infidel's service and resigned. Georgios Skholarios, who was a famous scholar indeed (studied Tomas Aquinas alongside other stuff), and a stout opponent to unification with the Catholics, who had been imprisoned (mandatory residence) at the Pantokrator Monastery (Molla Zeyrek Câmii) by Konstantinos, was elected as Gennadios II and served for quite a long time. He was no easy going type and is knowned to resighn twice to return to office later in Mehmed's reign too. He's known to have written apollogies for Orthodox Christianity against the Catholic ways as well as Islam and debated with Muslim scholars at the presence of the Sultan.

Since the terrible Latin looting in 1204 the city had never been able to get up again. A European traveller describes its state in 1430s as isolated small towns and yorks seperated with wide watelands, agriculture here and there, lumped inside a ring of walls. It changed after 1453. Mehmed, using enforced migration, filled the city up with people, mostly Muslims but also many Greeks evacuated from neighbouring villages, a sizeable Armenian colony transferred from Brusa and a community of Karaite Jews; had the population boom in a surprisingly short period and ordered (himself and other aristocracy, the Mahmud Paşa named above being a major name) trade facilities, repaired the port to the south etc. AFAIK, in a decade or so, it was the city with the highest population in Europe again. (A couple of valuable articles is sitting next to me right now but I'm too lazy to look up. Will update with more data later. )
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[Sarmatian]

The Serbian concubine (Maria?) wasn't Mehmed's mother. Well, iirc she was no concubine at all but a proper wife through diplomatic marriage. Murad wedded her and died soon afterwards. Mehmed was already in his twenties. IIRC she was chaste when her husband died.

It's Mara. She was the wife of the Sultan, not concubine. She wasn't the mother of Mehmed but she did have great influence on him. Contemporary sources also state that she was both beautiful and wealthy. Those were three major reasons why Constantine wanted to marry her. But, as someone already said, she vowed to become a nun if she was ever freed, and that's what she did.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Thanks.
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[Hound of Ulster]

The Byzantine empire was doomed when they lost Anatolia at the battle of Manzikert. Anatolia was the cultural and economic guts of the Byzantines, and the Seljuks ripped those guts out. The Ottomans just administered the coup de grace to the twitching corpse of Byzantium.

[Sarmatian]

The Byzantine empire was doomed when they lost Anatolia at the battle of Manzikert. Anatolia was the cultural and economic guts of the Byzantines, and the Seljuks ripped those guts out. The Ottomans just administered the coup de grace to the twitching corpse of Byzantium.

I wouldn't quite agree. Loss of Anatolia was a severe blow, undoubtebly, but Byzantium had a history of recovering after devastating defeats. In my opinion, gradual shift from centralised bureacracy to more feudal like ruling system was the chief cause of byzantium downfall because it ruined the military system of the empire. But if had to put my finger on a single event that harmed Byzantium the most, the 1204 sacking of Constantinople would be my pick...

[Mouzafphaerre]

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I agree with Sarmatian there. 1204 was the end of most, if not all. The feudal system, OTOH, was more a necessity of time than anything. During the period, everybody was exercising one form of it or another. Centralized governments were the practice of later times, Renaissance and afterwards.
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