EB 1.0 Balance

[HamilcarBarca]

I have played a three campaigns as Carthage from the years 272-200 BC now, and I have a couple of observations;

1. The changes to the "Rebels" in northern Italy and the Alps work well in constraining unrealistic AI Roman expansion into Germany and beyond.

Unfortunately, however, they don't change the AI Roman "urge" to expand in this direction. Hence, AI Rome continues to ignore conquering Taras and sourthern Italy & Sicily, and instead strives unsuccessfully to go north.

The result is no war between Carthage & AI Rome in Sicily, and Taras enduring as an Epirote city. :(

2. The Seleucids ALWAYS get crunched by Ptolemies. There is no struggle for Coele-Syria - instead the Ptolemies power east, and overwhelm Mesopotamia and Asia-Minor.

3. Macedonia ALWAYS gets crunched by a combination of Epiros and the Greek Cities.

As always, congratulations on the work and success of EB. I LOVE the new Xanthippos feature, and the Carthaginian reforms are superb.

H.

[Tellos Athenaios]

1) The Taras bit is a stroke of luck (in the sense that with some luck Rome conquers it within a couple of years, otherwise ...) and eventually either Epeiros or Rome make something out of it...
2) You're not alone here. We are looking for a balanced AS faction which would be more than able to hold on to its western possessions; but gradually loose it from the East. Unfortunately the Pahalava and the Baktrians do not always help this scenario by going to the Steppe instead. Again something we're trying to improve.
3) Funny you should mention this. From my AS campaign:

For about 27 years the Maks had been doing OK; even able to claim Delphi as their own private oracle... However they got a little too much into the KH bashing business (the KH who did manage to hold on to Athens btw) and the Epeirotai knew a chance when they saw it... With the Maks leaving Pella virtually unguarded it did not take long from 245 onwards for Epeiros to conquer Makedonia. A similar pattern assured the fall of Demetrias and Thermon.

It's more a case of 'classic' AI failure to recognise the need for decent border garrisons + Epeiros building up armies for decades; rather than a balance issue. (Because for 27 years the three Western factions almost perfectly held each other in balance- and had the AI not decided to go against Athens' big walls yet again... This game could've continued for another 27 years.)

[CaesarAugustus]

I have played a three campaigns as Carthage from the years 272-200 BC now, and I have a couple of observations;

You know there's more than one faction out there...

As for the Ptolemy-Seleukid battles, in the first of two campaigns I'm running right now the ptolemies and seleukia seem pretty much even (although after 220 BC the Ptolies did take over Seleukid asia minor). In the other one Ptolemy is smashing every seleukid force sent their way and going strong, but guess who I'm playing?

I haven't been paying attention to the Rome- Sicily situation, but from what I've heard at least there isn't a bloodclot in easter europe anymore.

[soibean]

Ive played 4 campaigns with different factions for about 30 years each and noticed that romans have 3 out of 4 times ignored taras, but they did take rhegion as they expanded north. No war with Carthage though...
Maks have been decimated in all 4 campaigns
AS gets crippled between Pontos (in 3 campaigns out of 4) and Ptolemy in all campaigns.
Lusitani (sp?) are expanding in every game and have nearly conquered all of iberia in 2 out of 4 campaigns, but not much expansion by gauls or germans.

I do think all the extra rebels to the north are an excellent addition. as stated above it depends if they wanna just pound their heads against the wall until it breaks or if they move away

[TWFanatic]

You know there's more than one faction out there...

So, he likes Kart-Hadast. You got a problem with that?

I recommend using force_diplomacy to make Romans attack Tarentum and, later, Carthage.

[Danest]

So... why DOES the AI like germany so much? Surely the southern towns are worth more... so, even if it's broken, the AI must be following some kind of reasoning (I hope it's not 100% random)

[Pharnakes]

They like to attack rebels and the player over all other factions.

[Bellum]

Wow, that's more dense than I thought.

[Mouzafphaerre]

.

2. The Seleucids ALWAYS get crunched by Ptolemies.

In my Lusotana M/M they are ruling the world. Ptolies are a petty kingdom in Ethiopia.

I'd love if you guys made over-expansion harder for both the player and the AI. Seeing such AS and KH expansions while trying to behave as realistically as possible makes me feel weird:



I suggested some emphasis on the faction leader (thus making another unfeature a feature) but flatly refused. Maybe distance from homelands or something like that can be done, I don't know.
.

[Pharnakes]

You sure I can't tempt you?

Not even shadow factions for the deaths and MTW style FLs?

Admit it. Your tempted.

[Callicles]

Interesting points from everyone. Achieving balance, playability, the chance to change history, and historical realism must be extremely difficult. I applaud the EB team for continuing to strive for perfection.

My largest frustration comes from Baktria. I would like it to be more of a toss-up between the Parthians and Baktrians to see who dominates in the East. I have only rarely seen Parthia dominate. For some reason, it seems that Baktria is just an economic powerhouse (likely because of the rich cities they begin with). Also, I think they get a huge benefit by being able to use the Seleukid MIC's. It explains their steamroll into the west, whereas Parthia has to slow down and develop each city before moving on.

But regarding the Taras question that seems to be dominating this thread, is it possible to make a script that gives Taras to the Romans if the player is any factions other than Rome or Epeiros?

[LordCurlyton]

I don't see why that's necessary. Check my KH campaign in the faction progression thread (it seems to have been missed b/c it preceded one of Soggius' massive updates). Playing with BI, AI Rome declared war on Carthage less than 10 years into the game and conquered Taras in roughly 2-3 years. They took Alalia, Karali, and Messana before Carthage mustered up troops and pushed back, retaking the isles and making all of Sicily Punic. As it stands the Romans and Punes are furiously fighting over Rhegion, in fact, it is a rebel city right now as the Carthies took it and promptly had it rebel. The Carthies are also engaged in the Sand Wars with Ptolies, who are 2 for 2 so far in crushing AS, though they just signed a peace with Ptolies and got Kyrene, so I don't see it lasting too long. Plus the Aedui have gained the upper hand in the Great Gallic Civil War.
I really think the conquest of Taras is the result of lucky battle roll for Romani, as if it had any phalanx units they will tend to kill a disproportionate amount and since the AI doesn't manually fight battles....the devs have really done all they can to encourage Rome to go after Taras and to their credit, teh Romans usually do. Its just that they don't attack with a real force and lose repeatedly.
EDIT: And Baktria only can use the regional MICs of AS, not factional. Its the Ptolies who truly benefit from any AS falterings since they can use Factional and regional MICs of AS IIRC.

[CirdanDharix]

Regarding Ptolemies/AS: excluding heavily tweaked games, I've had one game where the AS went on a rampage, and crushed the Ptolemies, taking also several Eleutheroi provinces and Pontos on the way there. In another the fight was pretty historical, with the Ptollies eventually taking Coele-Syria after a long struggle.

Regarding Rome: my big problem here is that the Punic Wars basically do not start. Messena can be trampled by either Rome or Carthage, without a war starting. I've seen Carthage in Southern Italy, and they're still the best of friends with Rome. IMO there should be a script to tirgger the Punic Wars as soon as either Rome or Carthage expands in Sicily.

But IMO, the worst unhistorical expansion is by the Sweboz. They always end up an all-conquering superpower. 50 years into any game and they're guaranteed to be in Gaul.

[Pharnakes]

Umm, there already is a script, if the romans take Messana, then the Qarthadastim will declare war on them.

[CirdanDharix]

But not vice-versa. And in EB its is much, much more likely that Carthage will take Messana first.

[Pharnakes]

[Danest]

In my Hayasdan campaign, Carthage is invading Italty from Sicily and has captured the toe of Italy, with some signs that they'll move on for more if not stopped. Rome has made significant progress the the north, and I believe they're directly bordering the Sweboz.