Faction thread 8: Lizardmen

[Bwian]

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[Taranaich]

Who's working/will be working on the Lizzies? I'm assuming it's yourself since you posted that awesome Stegadon, but I have to admit I'd also like to see how Alletun or KS tackle the beasties.

If you haven't started on the Kroxigors yet, the troll skeleton looks a good match. Unless you're using the Bone Giant skeleton. Either one would look great.

[DrZoidberg]

Who's working/will be working on the Lizzies? I'm assuming it's yourself since you posted that awesome Stegadon, but I have to admit I'd also like to see how Alletun or KS tackle the beasties.

If you haven't started on the Kroxigors yet, the troll skeleton looks a good match. Unless you're using the Bone Giant skeleton. Either one would look great.

If you check out the eye candy thread you'll have your answer. Skaven and Lizzies will use the same skeleton.

[Taranaich]

If you check out the eye candy thread you'll have your answer. Skaven and Lizzies will use the same skeleton.

... Oh aye. *feels sheepish*

Well there you go.

[radcan]

I just had an intriguing idea all though not sure if its possible within the limits of the engine but seeing as you are team "there are no limits!" ill just just come out with it. Right this my idea instead of having the bloated slann as the battlefield general (well there are hardly any of them left in the world as it is without them breeding like rabbits in the campaign) make the battlefield general an old scar saurus veteran on a carnosaur? I realise you cant have one men units this is where my limits thing comes in, could you hae him guarded by coldone sauruses or do the units all have to have the same mount ? Im sure i could of made that more to the point but what can i say im a droner!

[Dogman55]

I just had an intriguing idea all though not sure if its possible within the limits of the engine but seeing as you are team "there are no limits!" ill just just come out with it. Right this my idea instead of having the bloated slann as the battlefield general (well there are hardly any of them left in the world as it is without them breeding like rabbits in the campaign) make the battlefield general an old scar saurus veteran on a carnosaur? I realise you cant have one men units this is where my limits thing comes in, could you hae him guarded by coldone sauruses or do the units all have to have the same mount ? Im sure i could of made that more to the point but what can i say im a droner!

I always thought that including the Slann on battlefields was kind of pointless in the game. They are masters of magic, and since magic is not included in the game, they become big targets. Unless their bodygaurd, Saurus Temple Gaurds, are like, an exceptionally strong unit.

This is very picky, but since I proclaim to be a know-it-all Lizardmen person, Saurus Scar-Vets don't get Carnosaurs, Old bloods do ./

A system of Saurus Old bloods as generals, and Saurus Scar-Veterans as captains seems best. The Generals retinue would most likely be in a 'Veteran Cold One' unit seems like the only option. (The potential of seeing the awesome power of a carnosaur in game makes me drool ). Scar Veterans (Captains) would probably just be placed in the strongest Saurus unit currently in the army (Can that be hardcoded?)

Modders of Total War know-it-alls can answer that question about all units in a single group needing to be mounted on the same beasts.

[Dreq-Kai]

Hello to all,

I'm new here on the forum, specifically joining since I found this mod. As a Lizardmen and Warhammer player, I was understandably filled with glee when I found out a new mod was being made. i do not own Medieval, but i'm gonig to bu it when this mods betas are released.

As a Lizardmen player, I find it a bit of my duty to both help you think through this faction, as well and humbly and respectfully advise that certain things are done.

Alright? Let's begin!

Oh, I happen to have access to the Lizardmen book, which I will be referencing. After looking through this board, I noticed that you are concerned about copyright infringement, correct? I will hold off on adding links, or citing things word for word.

*Ahem*

Here is some suggestions for units;

Saurus Warriors- An Obvious choice. But not to be confused with...
Saurus Spearmen- Theres an option to give Sauri spears, so, it seems natural to go this way.

Skink Skirmishers- I beleive the same should be done for Skinks. Skirmishers would have Javalins, while...
Skink Blowpipers- would have the blowpipes we Lizardmen Players lvoe so dearly.

Temple Guard- Fluffwise, these units are Slann Bodyguards, so I don't know what you folks will be doing with the Slann. If making them a unit on their own, they would have a pretty good armor save, and be elite troops.

Stegadon- Ever since I played Rome and saw the elephants, I thought of these fellows. Note- There is a mini bolt thrower on the back.

Salamander- Salamanders are a fire-breathing creature. I am unaware to your plans for these, and they may be tricky.

Terradon- From what I've read, you are unable to make flyers.

Chameleon Skinks- Elite Skinks, able to hide anywhere. This would be lower on the priority list, but nevertheless, its an enjoyed unit.

Saurus Cavalry- Heavy Cavalry. I think its a safe assumption to think you will be making Cold One models? I think the Dark elves use them as well...

Jungle Swarms- Swarms. simple enough.

Arcanodon- I feel compelled to push for this monster, it is simply awe-inspiring. The only problem is, there is no official model for it in the range. But GW seems to accept a custom model... I can't post URLs yet, so maybe I'll add them in a later post.

Now, you're probably thinking, "Whats the Arcanodon?" Fair question. Its a new unit made in the Lustria Book. From what I can tell, it will become a new unit in the range next edition. It calls down comets. Pretty sweet, eh?

Specialized Units

Now, I understand you are going to be making certain units specific to certain areas? Here's some ideas.

Red Crested skinks These are skinks that have formed into regiments. They have the spawning of sotek.

Horned One Riders- Skink fast Cavalry. These are a Southlands exclusives though. But they aren't on your campaign map... which I want to talk about later.

----

Campaign Map

I don't mean to complain, I really don't. I understand that you have alot of work on your plate, and I honestly don't mean to give you seconds. But I feel compelled to talk about the map.

Well... Lizardmen don't live in Naggoroth... Their highest city is in Hexoatl, and its on the land bridge where the Warhammer equivalent of Mexico is. From what I can tell from them map, they aren't anywhere close.

Another idea, as to eleviate the problem of Lizardmen going north to Dark Elves, and Chaos going south, and the Dark Elves being killed, is an idea;

Add some Southland territories. This could contest that massive Tomb Kings Empire, thats bound to blitzkrieg into the Empire soon, at least for a few turns while they mobilize.

---

If I can be of any use, feel free to ask. I would like to help the project as much as I can.

[Dreq-Kai]

Sorry to double post, but I forgot to add, as per the Campaign map;

If you were to extend the map south more to include a bit of Lustria, you could solve your Vampire Counts area problem too. As there is the Vampire Coast. This could be a bit of a stronghold for Vampire Counts in case they get wiped out in the old world.

Theres also a few other human/norse settlements there too.

[Enthes]

only thing is if you give the lizerd men some of the south lands the lizerd men would have far to many places and would have enough resources to crush whoever they attack first.


the differances between the southlands armies and the normal lizerdman armies are interesting though.

in metw teritorys are divided into cities and castles why not have the normal lizard man army with saurus come from the castles and the southland skink armies come from cities and skinks are the workers of the lizard men.

[Dreq-Kai]

Well, from a stricly fluff sense, the Skinks don't take up arms to fight like the Saurus' do in Lustria. They only do this in the Southlands because the Saurus are very rare there.

As for the Southlands, I could see them being a rebel or other faction, since they often work independant of each other. But perhaps this is too much work for the Mod team. Perhaps the Southlands could be one of the factions they would add later? Like they will with Kislev, Wood Elves, Tilea, etc. [Unless i'm mistaken]

I'm afraid you'll have to explain this castle and town/city difference. I've only played Rome.

[Dogman55]

only thing is if you give the lizerd men some of the south lands the lizerd men would have far to many places and would have enough resources to crush whoever they attack first.


the differances between the southlands armies and the normal lizerdman armies are interesting though.

in metw teritorys are divided into cities and castles why not have the normal lizard man army with saurus come from the castles and the southland skink armies come from cities and skinks are the workers of the lizard men.

I like this idea about Skinks being City units and Saurus being Castle units. Also, for the Southlands, according to cannon, are lost to the ways of the Lurstian lizardmen (The faction we'll play in the mod). That means that the southlands can almost be wholly outfitted as Rebel Lizardmen, showing how these creatures have reverted to their baser instincts.

[Dreq-Kai]

I must say I like the idea of rebels for Southlands.

What are your thoughts on the Arcanodon? Do you think its established enough in the WH world to be a candidate for the mod?

Links to pics of GW website;

http://fr.games-workshop.com/warhamm...jason2/01b.jpg

So, its roughly similar...

[Eufarius]

Damn that Arcanodon would look good in the Imperial zoo... jk But That may take a huge chunk of modding time but it is quite possible to do it.

[Dreq-Kai]

Haha, good luck catching it, Human.

Would it be one of those things with a new... *Hunts for modding term* Skeleton? Or just a model?

[Eufarius]

Skeleton, model, skin, animation... tough stuff.

[Dreq-Kai]

Well, at least I can hope. That thing would be awe-inspiring.

Oh, and for reference, here's another version;
http://fr.games-workshop.com/warhamm...mg/neil/01.jpg

[Dogman55]

I must say I like the idea of rebels for Southlands.

What are your thoughts on the Arcanodon? Do you think its established enough in the WH world to be a candidate for the mod?

So, its roughly similar...

To be honest, I'd much rather see something you omitted in your original post of the lizardmen list: Blessed Spawnings. Seeing Saurus, skink, (even Generals with retinue/traits) would be much more a preferance for me over an Arcanodon. I mean, we already have a stegadon in the wings (An awesome skeleton of this is buried among some thread!) and hopefully the team and Bwian will find the best way to incorporate Salamanders.

All in all, the Arcanadon loo0ks really cool, it's just a bit over the top for the inital release, especially if it'll significantly delay the mod (I want it NOW hehe) But it's ultimately up to the modders if they want to undertake it.

All in my opinion.

P.S Don't mind the imperial dogs, I plan on making their 'mighty empire' fall very soon... For the Old ones!

[Dreq-Kai]

You mean having each unit specialized? Hmm... I don't know, I always saw the spawnings as a bit of like...

"Spawning Of Sotek- +1 attack, [Like an Armory Upgrade would]"

You mean like having them as all separate units? I think that may be alot of reskinning work, though it would look cool.

I would be fine if they chose to leave out the Arcanodon, but it would be pretty awesome. I be cool with it if they were to add it in later perhaps. Like if they did Southlands later, or something.

My thoughts on it, is that it would kind of fill the void left by the absence of the Carnosaur.

P.S. I will fight by your side. Our path is the true path.

[Eufarius]

To be honest, I'd much rather see something you omitted in your original post of the lizardmen list: Blessed Spawnings. Seeing Saurus, skink, (even Generals with retinue/traits) would be much more a preferance for me over an Arcanodon. I mean, we already have a stegadon in the wings (An awesome skeleton of this is buried among some thread!) and hopefully the team and Bwian will find the best way to incorporate Salamanders.

All in all, the Arcanadon loo0ks really cool, it's just a bit over the top for the inital release, especially if it'll significantly delay the mod (I want it NOW hehe) But it's ultimately up to the modders if they want to undertake it.

All in my opinion.

P.S Don't mind the imperial dogs, I plan on making their 'mighty empire' fall very soon... For the Old ones!

P.S.S. Are we going to start this up again Dogman55? not you too Dreq-Kai. Me and Alexander will have you cage you all back to the zoo.

[alexader]

wOOt????he escaped from the cage again??????? ohhhhh not again!!!!!!bring him back nowwwwwww!!!!!!good boy!!!because of that you have no food today!!!!!!!muhahahahaahahahhhahaahhahahahahah.

[Taranaich]

Well, technically reskinning for sacred spawnings wouldn't be particularly hard work if you set aside a layer for the markings and just edited the hue for each variation. The problem is that each Spawning would probably require a separate texture file, or one very big one.

I'd personally love the Arcanodon to make an appearance, but honestly it's too big a project, and the time to make it would be better spent on more units (like the Stegadon!).

[Eufarius]

Well, technically reskinning for sacred spawnings wouldn't be particularly hard work if you set aside a layer for the markings and just edited the hue for each variation. The problem is that each Spawning would probably require a separate texture file, or one very big one.

I'd personally love the Arcanodon to make an appearance, but honestly it's too big a project, and the time to make it would be better spent on more units (like the Stegadon!).

Yes Taranaich, I wonder how the Steg is goin?
Yes! Alexander is with me mwhahahaha. (rolls up sleeves, takes the tranquilizer gun) Time to get back to work.

[Dreq-Kai]

Idea to be discussed,

Perhaps the Castle/City thing should be as follows;

Cities would be the temple cities that includethe spawning pools and etc.

Perhaps the Castles could be the large structures that are known as "Monuments to the Old Ones"

Examples of this are: The Blood Pyramid, Ziggurat of Dawn, Temple Of Constellations, Obsidian Collumn, Monument of the Sun.

Just imagine battling on a blood stained altar to Sotek!

[Eufarius]

Dreq-Kai the thing is that you would have to crack the building code which hasn't been done so... let's hope KnightErrant and GrumpyOldMan crack it.

[Dogman55]

Idea to be discussed,

Perhaps the Castle/City thing should be as follows;

Cities would be the temple cities that includethe spawning pools and etc.

Perhaps the Castles could be the large structures that are known as "Monuments to the Old Ones"

Examples of this are: The Blood Pyramid, Ziggurat of Dawn, Temple Of Constellations, Obsidian Collumn, Monument of the Sun.

Just imagine battling on a blood stained altar to Sotek!

I personally had two ideas for Castle City Production of Lizardmen:

A basic thing is having Skinks spawn from Cities. Then the tier's of barracks can be:
Skink Skirmisher (javelin) / Skink Skirmisher (Blowpipe) Or just one.
Red Crested Skink (Spawning of Sotek)
Chamealeon Skink


Castle's Saurus:
Saurus Warriors
Temple Gaurd (Maybe?)
Spawning of Sotek (Attack) / (Spawning of Quetzl) Armor / Spawning of Tlatzoctl (i think) (Extremely good morale)
Kroxigar
Kroxigar Ancients.


What do you guys think?

[Dreq-Kai]

I dunno if Kroxigor Ancients should be another unit. Its mostly a regiment leader upgrade. Also, although they are copusins of the Saurus, they are bred to use in the cities, and their Spawn pools are in the city.

I definately agree that Saurus' should be castle units. And obviously, Temple Guards too.

By looking at the Temple city Map on Pg. 19 of the Lizardmen Book, I would advise;

Dome of Huanchi- Allows training of Skink Spy
Temple of Huanchi- Chameleon Skinks, Chameleon Assassin

Corral Arena- Horned One Riders
Upgrade to Temple of Itzl- Saurus Cavalry

Spawn Pools of the Laborer- Kroxigors

Blood Shrine of Sotek- Saurus Warriors/Spearmen [Sotek], Swarms - [Enables Public Sacrifice, like Gladiator Games?]
Blood Temple of Sotek- Red Crested Skink [Sotek] - [Enables Public Sacrifice, like Gladiator Games?]

Ziggurat of Quetzl- Saurus Warriors/Spearmen [Quetzl]

Great Statue of Tlazcotl- Saurus Warriors/Spearmen [Tlazcotl]

Barrios of the Worker- [Trader Equivalent]
Greater Barrios of the Worker [Market Equivalent]

Mortuary Shrines of the Holy- -1 Squalor
Sun Temple of Chotec- -1 Squalor +1 "Fertility"
Floating Garden of Lost Xholankha- +1 Law
The Guardians- +1 Law

Hunter Camps*- Salamander, +1 Farm
Hunters Enclave*- Stegadon, Arcanodon +1 Farm

Temple to the Old Ones*- [Main city Building] Skink Skirmishers, Skink Diplomat
Great Temple to the Old Ones*- Skink Blowpipers

Spawning Pool of the Warrior- Saurus Warrior [then can customize from what other buidlings are built]

*- I had to make these up.

Those are some ideas.

[Dogman55]

Those are some real good idea Drek. One thing I don't like is the inclusion of Horned one riders. They're not in the real lizardmen army, they're in the southlands version. The Lizardmen army in game imo should be like it is on the Tabletop with the Lustrian version, slow and methodical. Having armies of Fast calvalry would kind of take away from that feeling, no?

[Dreq-Kai]

Alright, thats perfectly fine by me. I see your point. I wouldn't mind seeing them as rebels though.

[A Norseman]

I think that the lizardmen, like the aztecs they will be based on, wil not have the oppertunety to build castles whatsoever. Their citys shuld be like the mesoamericans in Kingdoms, and all troops shuld be avaliable trough city upgrades

[Dogman55]

That's not really a bad idea. I never played MTWII long enough to unlock the americas, so didn't know it was in the game (The Aztec City as a castle and city, that is.) I did know it was in Kingdoms, but that's not what the mod is for. I Like the idea alot actually, seeing as how all the spawning pools are in a temple city.