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Thread: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

  1. #31
    RnJ PR Officer Member Eufarius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    Yeoman sounds good but maybe not the riding version just dismounted version and they could be like a spearman or a swordsman unit.


  2. #32

    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    As a player of Brettonnia myself, here's my suggestion... only create the units as they are.

    Yes, that means very weak infantry and a difficult time in seige warfare. This is not a bad thing, however, it's very flavorful for the faction.

    A Bretonnian army is not going to hide behind it's own castle walls, it's going to charge out. Thus it's lack of defensive siege units is not a problem.

    A Bretonnian army is going to try to get it's opponent to do the same. You can besiege a settlement just fine with any sort of force... regardless of whether you're able to assault it. Let Brettonnian players adjust their tactics to the army, as is the norm in Warhammer anyways.

  3. #33

    Default Re : Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    for some good fanatic infantry use:Bretonnian Grail Pilgrims

  4. #34
    Member Member Jonlissla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    Quote Originally Posted by Eufarius
    Good Lord Taranaich is a genius!
    Very good idea! Even though I think most Bretonnian Lords wouldn't spend their fortune on armour and weapons on meagre peasants, it is a very good idea.
    Perhaps upgrading you blacksmith will yield more versions of the Men-At-Arms, and upgrading your keep or town hall will bring those veteran guys into the game as well. Good idea. Afterall, the modding possibilities of Warhammer is endless.
    "Life is pain, get over it."

  5. #35

    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    Quote Originally Posted by adembroski
    As a player of Brettonnia myself, here's my suggestion... only create the units as they are.

    Yes, that means very weak infantry and a difficult time in seige warfare. This is not a bad thing, however, it's very flavorful for the faction.

    A Bretonnian army is not going to hide behind it's own castle walls, it's going to charge out. Thus it's lack of defensive siege units is not a problem.

    A Bretonnian army is going to try to get it's opponent to do the same. You can besiege a settlement just fine with any sort of force... regardless of whether you're able to assault it. Let Brettonnian players adjust their tactics to the army, as is the norm in Warhammer anyways.
    i couldn't agree more warhammer has it so most of the factions play completely differently and because of this it is great i would hate to see all the factions with the same types of units with the same tactics each time.
    For Middenheim & The Empire!

  6. #36
    Member Member Taranaich's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    Quote Originally Posted by adembroski
    As a player of Brettonnia myself, here's my suggestion... only create the units as they are.

    Yes, that means very weak infantry and a difficult time in seige warfare. This is not a bad thing, however, it's very flavorful for the faction.

    A Bretonnian army is not going to hide behind it's own castle walls, it's going to charge out. Thus it's lack of defensive siege units is not a problem.

    A Bretonnian army is going to try to get it's opponent to do the same. You can besiege a settlement just fine with any sort of force... regardless of whether you're able to assault it. Let Brettonnian players adjust their tactics to the army, as is the norm in Warhammer anyways.
    Well, technically my unit suggestions are based only on what I saw on the tabletop: there are Men-at-Arms wielding different weapons, but since the Medieval engine can't have more than one animation to a unit, having Men-at-Arms just use one type of weapon doesn't reflect the variety of weapons available to the unit. It just seemed common sense to split the men-at-arms into different squadrons with minimal bonuses to make them a bit different, much like how tabletop players themselves would fiddle about with the individual stats and wargear of their troops.

    If nothing else, you could just choose to be a traditional Bretonnian player yourself and stick religiously to the "standard" unit list.

    "Know, O Prince, that between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities, and the years of the rise of the Sons of Aryas, there was an age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world, like blue mantles beneath the stars...
    Is fhearr fheuchainn na bhith san duil.

  7. #37
    RnJ PR Officer Member Eufarius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    Quote Originally Posted by Taranaich
    Well, technically my unit suggestions are based only on what I saw on the tabletop: there are Men-at-Arms wielding different weapons, but since the Medieval engine can't have more than one animation to a unit, having Men-at-Arms just use one type of weapon doesn't reflect the variety of weapons available to the unit. It just seemed common sense to split the men-at-arms into different squadrons with minimal bonuses to make them a bit different, much like how tabletop players themselves would fiddle about with the individual stats and wargear of their troops.

    If nothing else, you could just choose to be a traditional Bretonnian player yourself and stick religiously to the "standard" unit list.
    That's what i meant adembroski(sp?)


  8. #38
    is not a senior Member Meneldil's Avatar
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    Default Re : Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    Quote Originally Posted by fireblade
    Or they will just have to starve out enemy settlements.

    I don't think Bretonnians should have dismounted knights. In Warhammer, there are no dismounted knights either, and by adding dismounted knights, bretonnians will lose their all-cavalry aura. They can blast like 6 holes in a wall before attacking, so you will need a lot of spears to stop them from charging through that.

    Fireblade
    Well, there are, obviously, dismounted knights.

    The previous Bretonnian army bood had them listed, and it seems pretty obvious that knights would dismount if needed, especially for siege battles, where they would be the firsts to climb the assault ladders.

    The true issue is the lack of mount/dismount option, like there used to be in MTW, meaning that dismounted knights would suck up another unit/model slot.

  9. #39
    Member Member fatma's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    just an idea

    i reckon, if its possible, that bretonnian armies should not be able to ambush. i think this is fluffy and represents their chivalry and honour vows pretty well

  10. #40
    RnJ PR Officer Member Eufarius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    welcome to the forums, and that sounds like a good idea.


  11. #41
    Member Member Jonlissla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re : Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    Quote Originally Posted by Meneldil
    The previous Bretonnian army bood had them listed
    Got any pics?



    Has anyone noticed how huge Bretonnia must be? If you can spew out about 40 knights (considering the amounts of soldiers in one unit in MTW2, otherwise 8 knights in one regiment), and each one of them has a small castle, not to mention their own Men-At-Arms.... well, doesn't that make Brettonia like a big hedgehog-like country? I'm not sure if each and of them had a castle, but the fluff says so.
    "Life is pain, get over it."

  12. #42

    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    Hello there to everyone.
    You could say I am an ambassador from the Roundtableofbretonnia.org website to check how things are going with this mod, but quite simply im just here to later post important updates in a thread back in our keep.
    Practically though, ill just be giving my opinions about issues and maybe answer a few questions regarding fluff.

    Can't wait for this to come out, am both a fan of Bretonnia and the Total war series





    Also, regarding the fluff affirmation. It is not completely correct, every ELDEST son being a knight will get the fief until/unless he decides to go on the grail quest. This means the younger sons will usually either go out to carve a fief for themselves or become household knights of their family keep or of another family.
    We could assume a large keep would have 500-1000 men@arms and 40-60 household knights

  13. #43

    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    Apparently you can only post urls after having a first post, so here is my double post:

    Jonlissla, heres a pic: http://www.roundtable-bretonnia.org/...c=detail&id=63

    and another of an unnoficial unit: http://www.roundtable-bretonnia.org/...id=445#ponyimg

  14. #44
    RnJ PR Officer Member Eufarius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    Welcome to the forums and I think Bwian would say thanks for the links.


  15. #45

    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    As far as foot troops I agree with the idea that we should not make to many versions of men at arms. The whole point of men at arms is that they are wimpy and need to assault a castle in MASS numbers (like skaven) to get in and do some damage.

    The Bretts have a trebuchet to knock down walls, a tonne of knights to exploint the gap, and could bring a bunch of cheap troops to take the walls and fight through the streets.

    They have longbowmen as well.

    Finally the Grail relaque pilgrims are actually a pretty good unit that rarely breaks. Build a bunch of them and you should have no problems taking the walls from an enemy. Knights may have issues fighting in cities but combine with a grail pilgrims and they should be just fine in a siege.

    However historically in Warhammer Bretts (before the most recent army book) men at arms did take spears into battle. There are old unit pictures around somewhere.

    I would recommend however that we don't over foot troop the bretts. The whole issue with them is that they are cavalry, and the peseants are foot troops. You change the balance of the list too much and they stop becoming bretts, they become France. This is a warhammer mod, not a rehash of MTW2 with different skins.

  16. #46
    Member Member Jonlissla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    Quote Originally Posted by Underway
    I would recommend however that we don't over foot troop the bretts. The whole issue with them is that they are cavalry, and the peseants are foot troops. You change the balance of the list too much and they stop becoming bretts, they become France. This is a warhammer mod, not a rehash of MTW2 with different skins.
    The infantry can suck how much they want, it's the cavaly that's the strong point of Bretonnia. They have one simple role in a Bretonnian amry; and that's to make sure the enemy stands still so the knights can charge from the flank. They're meatshields, nothing else.

    So it doesn't really matter how MANY infantry units you can have, it's the STRENGTH that matters. As long as they don't have any infantry unit that can contend with any stronger creature, like a Black Ork or something, Bretonnia will still have the title of strongest cavalry.

    That's my opinion though.
    "Life is pain, get over it."

  17. #47

    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    In my opinion, while being a very good idea, having different men@arms would go against the bretonnian nature.
    Im not sure how people intend to have grail pilgrims scale up the walls though, are you thinking of excluding the grail reliquae?

    Also, I believe I speak for all of us bretonnians when I say we would LOVE to have a foot knight unit even if it is seriously limited in unit size and/or number

  18. #48

    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    Thats all fine and good but the whole point of the mod is to try and represent warhammer as closely as possible. This means lack of foot troops for the Bretts.

    The only foot knight the bretts have is the "Commoners Vow" or something like that where a character fights on foot to bulk up the peseant units especially when doing a seige on either defence or attacking. They often lead the charge from the seigetowers or meet the charge on the top of the wall. But this is only one knight in the whole of the army list.

  19. #49

    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    if u had knights on foot i believe they should be very slow moving due to armour and weapons
    For Middenheim & The Empire!

  20. #50
    Member Member Jonlissla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    Quote Originally Posted by Enthes
    if u had knights on foot i believe they should be very slow moving due to armour and weapons
    That... wouldn't really make any sense. What about Greatswords? They carry two-handed swords, and it's not like in the movies (when they swing around them like if they're were made of paper ), a sword is really heavy. And to be able to use them properly, you have to be in a fit shape. Knights don't do much else than training, so I don't think they should be slower. Otherwise it wouldn't really be realistic.
    "Life is pain, get over it."

  21. #51
    Bringer of the End Times Member alexader's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    i think you made a mistake,it's a brettonian thread and not an Imperial thread.but from the other side it's not usefull to include units that we believe that they will stand well in the game,even if it's easy for them to exist.
    "VAE VICTUS"

  22. #52
    Member Member Jonlissla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    Quote Originally Posted by alexader
    i think you made a mistake,it's a brettonian thread and not an Imperial thread
    But it wouldn't really make any sense.

    Two guys are equally strong, yet the one that is carrying the lightest armour, are slower than the other guy that is carrying heavier armour.

    Something is not right about that...
    "Life is pain, get over it."

  23. #53
    Awesome Cold One Knight Member Goncalou's Avatar
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    Talking Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    Actually if i remember correctly, knights with the virtue of empathy can dismount their horses and fight on foot.
    It's a fool's race to be run, if all is lost if it be won.

  24. #54
    Awesome Cold One Knight Member Goncalou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    dont questing knights use greatswords though
    It's a fool's race to be run, if all is lost if it be won.

  25. #55
    Member Member Jonlissla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    Yeah, they do. What about it?
    "Life is pain, get over it."

  26. #56

    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    Quote Originally Posted by Taranaich
    Why not split the Men-at-Arms into different divisions based on their weaponry? There'd be the base Men-at-Arms unit, but researching and buildings could offer more specialized variations to fill out the roster:

    Men-at-Arms
    Typical Man-at-Arms unit, armed with simple spears and shields. Jack-of-all-trades but master of none.
    Spearmen-at-Arms
    Men-at-Arms trained in the use of defensive and anti-cavalry tactics, with good defense but little attack value except against cavalry. Armed with spears and shields.
    Swordsmen-at-Arms
    Men-at-Arms specializing with swords, trained in flanking and assaulting formations. Armed with swords and shields.
    Heavy Men-at-Arms
    Men-at-Arms that specialize against heavily armoured foes. Armed with axes, maces, flails, hammers and shields.
    Halberdiers-at-Arms
    Men-at-Arms equipped with halberds and the bonuses and versatility the weapon offers, but without shields.
    Veteran Men-at-Arms
    Those Men-at-Arms who survive assaults but don't receive the knighthoods they deserve, very strong assault infantry. Armed with two-handed weapons like greatswords, warhammers, mauls and the like, but without shields.

    And there's an extra five units for Bretonnia without having to make up units, since they are all choices available for Men-at-Arms on the table top game.
    This approach would seem the best choice to me as well. Maybe scratch a couple of the variant, like the Veterans or maybe the Heavies. The Spearmen and the basic Men-at-Arms could be merged, as the difference between the two seems miniscule and only there for sake of having more units.
    As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. - Godwin's Law

  27. #57
    Member Member Jonlissla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    That would be an effective approach, yes. But we don't know if the Governor of Judea is going straight of the miniatures range, or if he's going to add some other units too. Otherwise, you'll end up with too few units. In MTW2 you had about 20+ units per faction, Bretonnia only has 9 units that can actually be made. That will make the game unbelievably boring after a while, since you're not rewarded with new units, and that's one of the reasons that you actually continue playing, because you want to have new, stronger, better soldiers to guard your kingdom.
    "Life is pain, get over it."

  28. #58

    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    That was my line of thought actually as well. That we need more variations in units, bigger and stronger, or at least more varied, to keep us wishing to progress and conquer further. If we only have access to pure tabletop units, some races will run out of new units fast. Perhaps using the army lists for inspiration.. For example, from memory High Elven Archers started without armour, but armour can be given to them at extra cost. This in effect, gives you two units to create, Archers and Armoured Archers. Using TT additions to units is possibly the way to increase variation.

  29. #59

    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonlissla
    That would be an effective approach, yes. But we don't know if the Governor of Judea is going straight of the miniatures range, or if he's going to add some other units too. Otherwise, you'll end up with too few units. In MTW2 you had about 20+ units per faction, Bretonnia only has 9 units that can actually be made. That will make the game unbelievably boring after a while, since you're not rewarded with new units, and that's one of the reasons that you actually continue playing, because you want to have new, stronger, better soldiers to guard your kingdom.
    Exactly. Of course, you could spice things up a bit with regional special troops as well, recruited in the merc-fashion. I am not too familiar with the Brets, but I could imagine some fo the duchies being known for special troop types.
    As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. - Godwin's Law

  30. #60

    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    What about making more than one type of knightly unit-make a unit for each dutchy, or if that is impractical chose a select few. For example:

    Knights of Bastonne-Virtue of Heroism- Extra damage against Large Stuff (giants, trolls etc.)

    Knights of Carcassone-Virtue of Stoicism-Higher Morale

    Knights of Mousillon-Virtue of the Ideal-Higher Attack and Defence Skill, but cause slight morale damage to nearby friendly units.


    Im not sure if this is even possible, as my experience of modding total war is....limited. However it would expand the number of units- and as there would be no standard training for knights regional differences could be an interesting variation.

    This idea could be applied to characters (generals units) as well as having effects in the campaign game i.e. as a Duke or Scion of one of the Duchys the character would have a positive effect in that region and a negative effect elsewhere when acting as govener. The Duke of Mousillon would have a large negative impact on the running of any province except mousillion, possibly an increased chance of going insane/ getting blood lust etc. but more chance of becoming a strong general (including traits like Brave).

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