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Thread: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

  1. #61

    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    That may possibly give them too many knights, all of whom are not terribly different. Knight Errant, Knights of the Realm, Questing Knights, Grail Knights, Knights on Foot, then you have other mounted troops in the form of Mounted Squires.. might be better to have "Knight of Etc" being a trait for generals, same with virtues.

  2. #62
    Member Member Jonlissla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    I think it's also a good idea. But instead you could limit them as well, like they did in Kingdoms. A unique range of units, no?
    "Life is pain, get over it."

  3. #63

    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Bretonnia

    Hi there,


    New to the forums(first post), But long time Bret player and total war fan.
    Started with Medieval total war 1.
    I think the brets can be used in this mod and still be fun.
    For instance:

    Grail knights are elites
    immune to psychology = top moral
    living saints mean magic attacks = no armour save
    Bret warhorses = fast cavalry so high movement or stamina (Empire ones are slow)

    Spears in warhammer are not cavalry killers just plus strength in defence or charge reaction.

    Bret armies always have two heroes (one free standard bearer). Could be two generals in game. They are much more tough than real life generals.
    I think stats and ancillaries can give a good account of the brets.

    They have a few different knights 5 heavy cavalry

    Grail knights Elites = (Spartan hoplites on horses, they’ve never let me down)
    Pegasus Knights = (KOTR on Pegasus, I know they might not be possible)
    Questing knights = Knights with great swords won’t break if any other knights do
    KOTR (Knights of the realm) in last version they were bit stronger than Knights Errant and they use their Helms
    Knights errant = may charge without orders don’t always use helms

    All knights won’t rout if infantry do. All faster than any other races knights.

    Light cavalry Squires/Yeoman with bows shields and spears

    Long bows (just same as English)
    Men at Arms (Bill men with shields basically)
    Grail pilgrims = (cross bearers on crusades)
    Trebuchet (longest range of artillery in the game)

    There are rules for dismounted knights in each version of the game but I don’t think you really need them.

    Magic could be represented by special orders from Kingdoms
    Missile weapons are less affective against brets when brets attack, every player will use lady prayer for protection.

    Alexandre Le Sueur
    Chevalier of The Order of the Fleur de Lys
    Servant of France and Bretagne

  4. #64

    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Bretonnia

    I'm sorry, but I have to correct you here:
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus Agrippa
    There are rules for dismounted knights in each version of the game but I don’t think you really need them.

    Magic could be represented by special orders from Kingdoms
    Missile weapons are less affective against brets when brets attack, every player will use lady prayer for protection.
    You're a edition behind, Bretonnian knights cannot dismount anymore. The blessing of the lady now gives a 6+ ward save, which is a 5+ ward save if their enemy has strenght 5 or more. Mounted squires do not exist anymore, just the mounted yeomen.
    There is no such thing as the best winnig, the one to screw up first loses.

    -My dog has no nose!
    -Then how does it smell?
    -awfull!

  5. #65

    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    I think you have bretts covered. My only suggestion is that if you keep the castle/city distinction (and I suggest you do) then Bretts should have more castles than cities. This will easily distinguish them from Empire, who would have more cities than castles.

  6. #66

    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    Quote Originally Posted by Caradrayan
    I think you have bretts covered. My only suggestion is that if you keep the castle/city distinction (and I suggest you do) then Bretts should have more castles than cities. This will easily distinguish them from Empire, who would have more cities than castles.
    That would be a good idea, according to their agressiveness. Maybe the bret forts should be more expensive, but stronger, simulating the massive amount of border castles they have (maybe permanent forts, thoug that might be hardcoded)
    There is no such thing as the best winnig, the one to screw up first loses.

    -My dog has no nose!
    -Then how does it smell?
    -awfull!

  7. #67
    Awesome Cold One Knight Member Goncalou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Bretonnia

    Quote Originally Posted by Solus
    I'm sorry, but I have to correct you here:

    You're a edition behind, Bretonnian knights cannot dismount anymore. The blessing of the lady now gives a 6+ ward save, which is a 5+ ward save if their enemy has strenght 5 or more. Mounted squires do not exist anymore, just the mounted yeomen.
    Knights/Heroes something like that with the virtue of empathy may be fielded on foot, says so in warhammer armies brettonia.
    It's a fool's race to be run, if all is lost if it be won.

  8. #68
    Member Member Jonlissla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    Quote Originally Posted by Solus
    That would be a good idea, according to their agressiveness.
    Brets aren't excactly aggressive. It says in the armybook that if they would actually start invade instead of thinking about their honour all the time (*cough* lazy bastards *cough*), they could easily conquer a large part of The Old World.

    ..... But you problably meant that they weren't aggressive at all, right?
    "Life is pain, get over it."

  9. #69

    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    Can't trust the armybooks about the competence of a faction. The army books are cheerleaders for the faction.

  10. #70
    Member Member Jonlissla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    Quote Originally Posted by Caradrayan
    Can't trust the armybooks about the competence of a faction. The army books are cheerleaders for the faction.
    No shit? In every damn book they write "OMG LOZL!!!1 Dis faction kan PWN any1 if only dey only *insert-random-reason-here*!!!!1"

    It's kinda sad though. It would be better if they would treat everyone neautral instead, and at least write some downsides with the factions.
    "Life is pain, get over it."

  11. #71

    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Bretonnia

    Quote Originally Posted by Goncalou
    Knights/Heroes something like that with the virtue of empathy may be fielded on foot, says so in warhammer armies brettonia.
    *Breaks out his army book, checks the index for the “virtue” entry, flips to the “virtue” section, reads up on this particular virtue and its effects, and concocts a plan to outwit the Goncalou using his superior intellect.*
    THAT only counts fot HEROES AND LORDs, which makes it impossible to implent in this mod
    (In some way, you're rightI have to make sure I'm right this time )

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonlissla
    It's kinda sad though. It would be better if they would treat everyone neautral instead, and at least write some downsides with the factions.
    Brets have a downside, the poor peasants who have to work all day, while the nobles are playing with damsels and dragons

    There is no such thing as the best winnig, the one to screw up first loses.

    -My dog has no nose!
    -Then how does it smell?
    -awfull!

  12. #72
    Member Member Jonlissla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Bretonnia

    Quote Originally Posted by Solus
    Brets have a downside, the poor peasants who have to work all day, while the nobles are playing with damsels and dragons
    Of course the peasants have to work all day! They're lowborn, and that's what they were born to do. To work for highborn (in other words; guys like me ).
    "Life is pain, get over it."

  13. #73

    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Bretonnia

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus Agrippa
    Grail knights are elites
    immune to psychology = top moral
    living saints mean magic attacks = no armour save
    Bret warhorses = fast cavalry so high movement or stamina (Empire ones are slow)

    Missile weapons are less affective against brets when brets attack, every player will use lady prayer for protection.
    Most of these things are possible since it's possible to lock_morale (unit will never rout), give them armour piercing attacks (reduced enemy's armour defence), and more hit points (the counter archer fire). Though I'm unsure it the speed of a mount can be increased.
    4 Seasons (6 Empires battle for supremecy); 3.0 version
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  14. #74
    Warhammer: Total War Team Member Alletun's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Bretonnia

    Quote Originally Posted by uanime5
    Though I'm unsure it the speed of a mount can be increased.
    It can. You'd have to change the x-coordinate for the skeleton.

  15. #75

    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    Just so we are clear, there are essentially 3 speeds for cavalry in the TT. Since this comes out to slow, medium, and fast, I think it will be useful to list them.

    fast: dire wolves, goblin wolf riders and wolf chariots, and elf light cavalry are fast, they have a 9" movement on the TT.

    medium: all Brett cavalry, empire pistoliers, high elf heavy cavalry, dark elf and lizardmen cold ones, orc boar riders and chariots, marauder horsemen tilean light cavalry, tomb kings cavalry and chariots. These all have an 8" move on the TT.

    slow: empire knights, chaos knights, black knights. These have a 7" movement due to barding penalties on the TT.

  16. #76

    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    Cold ones and boars have a 7" movement. So they should be slow

  17. #77

    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    This article might be handy when making the bretonnian fleet:http://www.roundtable-bretonnia.org/...=405&Itemid=59
    There is no such thing as the best winnig, the one to screw up first loses.

    -My dog has no nose!
    -Then how does it smell?
    -awfull!

  18. #78

    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    Where to begin?

    First of all, Bretonnia does have dismounted knights, its just that most of them are found in the region of Montfort. For those of you not farmiliar with Bretonnian lore (shame on you ) Montfort is a region of Bretonnia that borders the Empire and is mostly made up of mountains. Due to this the knights of Montfort rarely fight on horseback this even includes the Dukes of Montfort who will pursue raiding orcs and goblins up cliffs and into tunnels (places horses cannot go). Thus all the knights of Montfort are perfectly proficient in, and willing to, fight on foot.

    Therefore if you wanted to put in units of dismounted knights, simply create a unit called Dismounted Knights of Montfort. They did a similar thing in Rome Total War where any city held by the Greek faction could recruit powerful Spartan Hoplites

    Another idea I had was about Grail Knight. Of course if you are going to make a Bretonnian faction you must have Grail Knights. However instead of recruiting Grail Knights through regular army buildings like stables as you would do for Knights of the Realm or Knights Errant, one would recruit Grail Knights through religious buildings. According to the Warhammer Bretonnian book and other various peices of Bretonnian fluff when knight becomes a Grail Knight more often than not he becomes the guard of a grail chaple or holy site. Therefore in the game when one upgraded the religious building in a town or castle to a certain point, one would gain the ability to recruit Grail Knights who are drawn to such holy places.

    Another point I wish to address is one made eariler on in the thread about Bretonnians not hiring mercenaries. While it is technically against Bretonnian policy and belief to hire mercenaries it still does happen. For example according to the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay book of Bretonnian (which was created by Games Workshop and considered canon) in the dukedom of Carcasson there is a tradition of hiring martially skilled peasants to guard flocks of sheep for fifty pennies a day. So when nobles in Carcasson want to hire foreign mercenaries they give the mercenaries a sheep to guard and before they leave they "accidentaly" drop a bag of gold near the mercenaries. The mercenaries either end up eating the sheep or interestingly turn it into a mascot. So there is one way of getting around the problem of Bretonnian hired mercenaries, just say they are not being hired as mercenaries but as "shepards".

    Another idea I have is about Bretonnian Hippogryphs. If you wanted to include hippogryph mounted knights as unit just use elephant units from total war. Just take the elephant units, change the skins and a many a few of the attack action (I don't know if you can do that I'm not very familier with modding) and turn it into a unit of knights mounted on hippogryphs. They would not be able to fly but one could just say that they have have decided to charge the enemy on the ground or something. While it is true that in the table top game only lords can ride hippogryphs, in the Bretonnian fluff it says that any lord can ride a hippogryph so lond as he has the facilities to take care of it and the force of will to master it. Few do which is why they are so rare, but it would no go against canon to say that a group of nobles have banded together in one unit of hippogryph knights. I'm sure the only reason that they did not include them in the table top was because it would have been impractical, however including them in Warhammer total war would not be impractical so there is no reason not to.

  19. #79

    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    I agree with Kage Minowara. Also, in Lyonesse, the Lords do hire mercenaries to fight in their feuds. This is also found in the Roleplaying book on Bretonnia. These mercenaries include Dogs of War like Tileans.

  20. #80

    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    Yeah guys, have any of u played lotr tw, in that they have fell riders which although aren't 100% right, can fly, basically they are ground units that hover in the air.
    Is this possible?????

  21. #81
    Awesome Cold One Knight Member Goncalou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    I seriously just don't know, but... thre is a video on you tube where drgons are just hovering in the air and killing tanks. So if you want to look it up you'll know for sure
    It's a fool's race to be run, if all is lost if it be won.

  22. #82
    Awesome Cold One Knight Member Goncalou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    All right it's done, i finally did it! After 53 long minutes it is done! What you may ask, well look at my post in the HE thread for your answer, and why has there only been like one Brettonian preview. Please start posting more stuff in the faction threads, they're so much less serious (and more fun) than the others. And person i was talking to last post you really should look up that video if you haven't yet, I remember there being a link somewhere on one of these threads, but which one.
    It's a fool's race to be run, if all is lost if it be won.

  23. #83
    oh NOM NOM NOM Member Spankfurt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    You're a monster, Goncalou.

    >:^{D
    ­­well guys, im off like a lepper teste

  24. #84
    Awesome Cold One Knight Member Goncalou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    What why am i a monster? WaaaaaH!!!!!!!
    It's a fool's race to be run, if all is lost if it be won.

  25. #85
    oh NOM NOM NOM Member Spankfurt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    Take a look at the last post of every topic in the Army's section.

    wtfx
    ­­well guys, im off like a lepper teste

  26. #86

    Default Re: Faction Thread 9: Brettonnia

    just a quick correction,

    ALL high elf cavalry moves at 9" in the TT game.

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