Faction Thread 12: Dogs of War

[Bwian]

If it does not fit in any of the listed factions, but has such a need to be here, then this is your last hope to see it in the initial release. Discuss them here, and if there is enough call, and we can make it happen...then it may well appear as a mercenary unit for hire!

[Spankfurt]

Oooo Oooooo I know! I know! Halflings would be soooo easy and cool to make!

I have no experience and no clue about how to mod.....But couldnt you just shrink some British peasants, increase their size, or skeleton....and maybe fiddle with their faces or clothes?

[A Norseman]

I feel that dogs of war shuld be a oppertunity for players to controll other races than their playing factions.

Well, Tilean pike formations is a quite usual mercenary in the Empire (greek armored hoplites), And culd be used as a rebel garrison to the tilean cities.

Arab foot soldiers are not so usual.. but a neccesary enemy to the Tomb Kings in the beginning.. (to prvent the skeletons steamrolling)

Giants are a high cost mercenary for the orcs and chaos.

[messenger]

If your adding the mercenary unit's as just normal units (which is much better than unique ones), then that means you could perhaps do the different Pikemen models as different armour upgrades or something.
So say for the Pikemen, Leopold's Leopard Company could be un-upgraded Pikemen, Pirazzo's Lost Legion could be +1 armour upgrade, the Alcatani Fellowship +2 armour and Ricco's Republican Guard +3 armour.
That way we can see all our favourite units for the price of one!

[DrZoidberg]

How is "Dogs of War" not just another way to say "Mercenary". And don't we have a thread on this already? That I made

[messenger]

How is "Dogs of War" not just another way to say "Mercenary". And don't we have a thread on this already? That I made

I preferred writing the word mercenary.
I guess Bwian wanted to make an official Dogs of War thread.

Anyhow, I hope that we can see all the different unit's, perhaps not under their Warhammer tabletop name, as each of them is a unique unit which wouldn't make it easy or practical to add in.
If the team take a page from the Ravening Hordes Dog's of War in WD 231, they could just have it so each mercenary unit falls under a category such as Pikemen, Paymaster Guard or Crossbowmen.
This would be much better as that will allow units to be recruited more often.

[Spankfurt]

Bwian, I am brilliant. comment on my halfling suggestion, tell me im super intellegent

[lanky316]

I love pikes so I'd like to see pikemen in there as an obvious and crossbows. This then gives us the bulk of the official Dogs of War theme and setting of Tilea, what else is there...Araby light cavalry and maybe some lightly armoured swordsman and archers (hirable from the south, specialise in fighting in warmer climates).

Other then that I honestly can't see too much that I'd want to bring in, oh yes, except for the super intelligent idea of halflings someone came up with, though I cna't remember who ;)

[Gnashfang]

Halflings would be great XD I can imagine, my army of halfling mercenaries... That would be epic. Shouldn't be too hard either, I mean, Dwarves are half the work right? Maybe make them a bit less broad, shrink them down a tiny bit more, and then shave the beard and halfings? Though you could also shrink down a peasant unit and all that jazz too I suspect?

[messenger]

If Bwian is adding them then I am sure he will do them properly, he already stated that there will be no use of MTW2 models.

[Spankfurt]

he never said pigmy M2TW units...... This is size'ist

[DrZoidberg]

Just a thought. But if we're putting such an effort into creating all these dogs of war we can create the Tilea faction. They've only got militia and no proffesional army. All their troops are mercenaries, ie Dogs of War. Not a lot of extra effort. A bit like the Milan faction. I know Bwian wants to make everything really top notch and not skip any corners. I just thought I'd add this little snippet of info in case we do feel like not working so hard on at least one faction ;)

[A Norseman]

Perhaps add tilea and a small wood elf faction as unplayable? its better than rebels anyway.. Like 3 basic core unit slots each and a non aggresive stance on the battlemap.. Wuld give the toomb king a bit to worry about in the beggining.. and the woodelfs are after all a major faction on the board game.

I think this shuld be done with the woodelfs at least.. now they have a glade guard archer unit, with only minor effort the unit can be made into eternal guard spearmen unit and put on top of light horses for a glade riders/general unit and whoa! a skinned down, but perfectly able woodelf NPC faction..

[tito]

We can do exactly the same with arabia,three core units like arabian archery and sworman,light cavaleryand elephant.
Wuld give the toomb king a bit to worry about in the beggining too

[Enthes]

personally i would not want to see araby in the mod. Its a faction that is the least warhammery and to much like real life

[Silly Knicket]

personally i would not want to see araby in the mod. Its a faction that is the least warhammery and to much like real life

Except for Djinns and flying carpets of course ;)

[A Norseman]

Who cares? they are not even a real faction so stop worrying about them.,

[Myrddraal]

Bwian has already said...






oh nevermind.

[Eufarius]

I most definetly agree Myrddraal.
I know what you mean Bwian already discussed the factions on the mod so stop asking.

[Silaris]

I do think that the idea about a non-playable Wood Elf and Tilea faction would be nice though. Tilea especially, considering their mercenary style.

[Caradrayan]

I know that in MTW II some factions have limited access to mercenaries. I'm thinking of the Turks having access to akinjis (sp?) while the Byzantines have access to Turkopoles, and both can recruit turkomans.

Knowing this, I suggest that each faction have a pretty personal list of mercenaries, with some overlap. my suggestions are as follows.

Dark elves: I can't see dark elves working as mercenaries, their culture is too rigid, and I've never heard of it in the fluff. However, I think they should be able to recruit from mercenaries of several evil races. In Naggaroth and the chaos wastes, they should have access to chaos mercs, marauders and maybe demons. In the old world, they should be able to recruit orc and goblin mercenaries, maybe skaven, and beastmen if you include them, which it seems you are going to.

Lizardmen: I could see lizzy mercs in Lustria, especially skink horned one riders. In the old world it's possible they might hire mercs from any of the "good" races, dwarves, humans of all types, maybe elves (more on that later)

High Elves: In Ulthuan, I would say mercs should be very limited or unavailable. Their society is also rigidly structured, and fighting as a primary proffession is discouraged except for the specific orders. I can imagine them hireing men of all types, Lizzies in Lustria, but not dwarves.

Chaos: chaos mercs of various types should be available throughout the Chaos Wastes, In the old world, they should be able to recruit beastmen, orcs and gobbos, and cultists, but not the stronger chaos troops like warriors and deamons, those should be wastes only.

Norsca: not a faction, but marauders should be available to recruit for anyone that would recruit chaos troops.

Kislev: also not a faction, but kislevite mercs should be available to anyone that would recruit humans, and light chaos troops should be available to anyone that would recruit chaos.

Brettonnians: In the fluff, Knights don't work for money. I would suggest that men-at-arms and archers be available, maybe grail pilgrims if you implement them. These would be available to anyone who recruits humans. Generic tilean mercs would be available, pikes and xbows, maybe araby troops in southern Brettonia, maybe not. Finally, I suggest limited wood elf mercs available near Athel Loren to Bretts and High elves.

Estalia: again, not a faction, but araby mercs would work here, if you implement them, and certainly Generic Tileans. Finally, maybe Knights of the Blazing Sun.

Tilea: not a faction, but should be Garrisoned by Generic Tileans, and they should be available as mercs.

Skaven: Can see them working for themselves as mercs, and they would be available anywhere in the old world, maybe lustria too. So they should be able to recruit skaven mercs anywhere, maybe also Orc and gobbos, or Chaos mercs. Can't see humans or any of the "good" races working for them.

Empire: Imperial troops would be available in the Empire, as well as Generic Tileans, and dwarves, and halflings, maybe some Bretts and Kislevites on the borders. Beastmen and Orc and gobbo mercs available to those who would recruit them. Maybe Ogres could be an "elite" late game merc choice here, if you implement them.

Border Princes: not a faction, garrisoned by Imperial mercs, same merc options as the Empire.

Dwarves: dwarf mercs would be available around traditional dwarf homelands, both current and former. They would work for dwarves or humans, but not elves. Dwarves should have the same recruitment options as Empire, Except no elves.

Orcs and Gobblins: they should be able to recruit their own basic units, and giants and ogres. They should be available pretty much anywhere, maybe not Ulthuan, Lustria, or the Chaos Wastes. I can't see them hireing anything else though, and I can't think of any fluff to support it, so no hiring Chaos or Beastmen.

Tomb Kings: I can't imagine them hireing mercs, or any mercs working for them. If you go with my suggestion for a really weak economy, and really cheap troops, mercs wouldn't be feasable anyway.

Vamp counts: I can imagine them hireing human mercs, not dwarves or elves. I cannot imagine them being hired or working for anyone else. Mercs in their territory should just follow the regional pattern, so Sylvania has typical Empire options for mercs.

final concideration: Chaos dwarves, specificly, the hell cannon. Might be available in eastern part of the map to anyone who would recruit chaos mercs, if you want to include them at all.

[Solus]

Sorry, but I have to correct you on this one:

Brettonnians: In the fluff, Knights don't work for money. I would suggest that men-at-arms and archers be available, maybe grail pilgrims if you implement them. These would be available to anyone who recruits humans. Generic tilean mercs would be available, pikes and xbows, maybe araby troops in southern Brettonia, maybe not. Finally, I suggest limited wood elf mercs available near Athel Loren to Bretts and High elves. .

The Bretonnian army book states that the bretonnians have too much pride to even consider paying someone to fight for them. They would rather fight to the death, so brets will NEVER fight as/alongside mercs (army book page 65). The peasents (men at arms + bowmen + mounted yeoman), have to work when they're not at war, so no mercs on that one. Grail pilgrims do nothing but following grail knights around (army book page 51-52)

[Caradrayan]

There is one Brettonian Regiment of Renown, I forget it's name, but it's an archer unit based on Robin Hood. This suggests that some peasants would work as mercs. Perhaps the Bretts wouldn't hire any mercs at all, but at least a few mercs would be available to other races in the territory, for whatever reason. Also, I like my idea for limited Wood elf mercs, so I will continue to suggest that.

[SaFe]

Also there is a considering foce of Norscans working as mercenaries inside the Empire, so the typical all Norse are Chaos Marauders should not apply here.

[Caradrayan]

that's true, anyone that would hire chaos or humans would hire norscans.

[Jonlissla]

Sorry, but I have to correct you on this one:

The Bretonnian army book states that the bretonnians have too much pride to even consider paying someone to fight for them. They would rather fight to the death, so brets will NEVER fight as/alongside mercs (army book page 65). The peasents (men at arms + bowmen + mounted yeoman), have to work when they're not at war, so no mercs on that one. Grail pilgrims do nothing but following grail knights around (army book page 51-52)

True, but instead they could change mercenaries to conscripts instead, like they draft peasants from the villages. That might work.

[Solus]

There is one Brettonian Regiment of Renown, I forget it's name, but it's an archer unit based on Robin Hood. This suggests that some peasants would work as mercs. Perhaps the Bretts wouldn't hire any mercs at all, but at least a few mercs would be available to other races in the territory, for whatever reason. Also, I like my idea for limited Wood elf mercs, so I will continue to suggest that.

If there have to be mercs, then some peasant longbows would be a good option, wood elf merc would be logical choice too, they fought alongside brets before (see the history section in the bretonnian army book). That would make all the mercs for the bretonnian area archers, so I suggest you would suggest including some melee fighter dwarfs, they are allied to the brets (yup, agian history section of the bret army book), that would make things more balanced. Maybe should good races be able to get merc questing knights everywhere, because those knights travel everywhere and they always want to fight to improve the world, now get to work agian, you guys still have to create the best models in TW history(of course I'm referring to some Über awesome grail and realm knights)

[Firkragg]

Knowing this, I suggest that each faction have a pretty personal list of mercenaries, with some overlap. my suggestions are as follows.

Empire: Imperial troops would be available in the Empire, as well as Generic Tileans, and dwarves, and halflings, maybe some Bretts and Kislevites on the borders. Beastmen and Orc and gobbo mercs available to those who would recruit them. Maybe Ogres could be an "elite" late game merc choice here, if you implement them.

final concideration: Chaos dwarves, specificly, the hell cannon. Might be available in eastern part of the map to anyone who would recruit chaos mercs, if you want to include them at all.

First post, but before I start, please keep in mind that my knowledge of the Warhammer lore is very thin.
But when Caradrayan brought up the suggestion that the Empire could recruit Orcs as mercs, I suddenly got to thinking.

As far as I understand, religion is a very crucial part of any citizens life in the empire (or in Sigmar). How does this relate to the Empire recruiting Orcs into their army?
Suppose generals have "piety", just as in M2TW, hiring Orcs into his army might give a rather large decrease in his Piety rating (will try and explain consequences in abit). Just as you could get a Merc Captain character in M2TW with bonuses (decrease costs when hiring mercenaries, more +gold when sacking a town etc.). But to reflect the generals decision to use vile Orcs in his army, give him a new item/trait with a loss of piety. Perhaps you could even take it a step further and make it decrease morale for all the empire troops in that particular army (don't know if its possible doing that without reducing the Orcs's morale in the process too though)

Thinking abit more on it, perhaps have Inquisitors who move around the map (controlled by another faction, just like the papacy in M2TW), occasionally looking for those not "pure in spirit" and killing those who do not meet their standards.

Conclusion: So while the Empire "might" have the ability to draw upon Orcs, Goblins and Skaven as possible merc troops, recruiting them would have a drawback that might fit in with the lore - I'll leave it to the more "learned" to comment and correct
I think it would add a new, fun little feature to the mod (all this depends on how the religion bit works out though).

How this can be applied to the other factions, I have absolutely no idea

[Caradrayan]

Firkragg, you misunderstood my intent. The list of mercs I thought the empire faction should be able to recruit ended with "kislevites and maybe bretts on the borders." the part where I say "Orcs should be available to those who would recruit them." is a reference to evil factions, chaos, dark elves, skaven, maybe vamps.

[Firkragg]

Firkragg, you misunderstood my intent. The list of mercs I thought the empire faction should be able to recruit ended with "kislevites and maybe bretts on the borders." the part where I say "Orcs should be available to those who would recruit them." is a reference to evil factions, chaos, dark elves, skaven, maybe vamps.

Ah, I see, "slight" mis-interpretation on my part, apologies.